I am a left-wing ex*trem*ist

[PosPosPos]

They're just temporarily embarrassed millionaires. Someday they'll have a slice of the pie they "deserve" (not).

Hey I mean, at least I tried my best to promote more parity to humanity in general, it's that the intended recipients insist on widening the inequality.

My work is my pastime and I retire whenever I want with millions in my trust funds and bank accounts ensuring stability for the rest of my life.

Best of all, all these middle/lower class people will apologize for me since according to them I am hardworking and deserving compared to everyone who works 40 hour work weeks and more.

[alexw]

Since this thread seems to derail into "raise taxes on the wealthy" I'll throw in my 2 cents.

1. Lower corporate tax
2. Increase personal income tax
3. Increase minimum wage
4. Increase capital gains tax

Personally I think creating an environment where its more beneficial to invest in your company rather than hand out huge salaries and bonuses would create more jobs, increasing minimum wage and personal tax due the same thing and im kind of torn but increasing the personal tax rate at the higher end counters the corporate tax cut (as well as the capital gains tax).

The wealthy do have too much money, the answer isnt "give it to the government so the government can provide hand outs" the answer should be jobs for Americans.

This argument is based on a flawed premise - that investing and growing a company is some "magic" endeavor that is based solely on the wealthy suddenly deciding to just do it. That is not how it works at all. The reason companies invest and increase output is to meet an increase in demand for what they produce. If there is no increase in demand then there is zero chance of an increase in investment happening. Thus about a decade ago there was a tax "holiday" that allowed companies to bring back money held overseas at a substantially reduced rate. The premise was that it would increase hiring and investment. It did no such thing. The money instead was spent on boosting CEO pay, on share buybacks, and on increased dividends.

If you want investment to increase there needs to be a substantial redistribution of income from the wealthy to the masses on a global scale. Too much income is concentrated into too few hands who already have everything they need and so do not spend it on buying goods and services. That results in a lack of economic demand which in turns results in low levels of investment, as why would companies invest to increase output if they cannot sell their increased output? The other side of this coin is of course all the economic bubbles we keep seeing. Since the wealthy have vastly more income than they need, it gets saved and is used to purchase assets of one type or another, and when too much money starts chasing a limited quantity of productive assets you get economic bubbles, as the money overflows from buying productive wealthy creating assets into unproductive speculative ones.

[Skayth]

Someone has more money than others because he's more hardowrking/succesfull in life? HE SHOULD PAY MORE TAXES!
^ Typical Lefties arogant thinking

mmmm so all the waltons are hardworking? Trump is hardworking? No. A Majority of such people just inherited their wealth.

[alexw]

Corporations don't pay taxes, only people can pay taxes. companies simply pass them on to their employees(lower wages), clients(higher prices) and shareholders (lower dividends). Most of this tax actually lands on middle income people. Taxing a corporation just hurts the economy. It makes a business less profitable (and more likely to move its HQ). It makes wages go down and makes the cost of goods go up.

Err no it doesn't. This is just flat out wrong. The times when we had very high levels of taxation on capital were the time periods when we had the highest levels of economic growth. Now that does not mean high taxes on capital cause high levels of economic growth, but it certainly does mean that high taxes on capital DON'T hurt the economy as you suggest.

[Deleted]

But do people honestly think that if the corporations pay more tax that anything will change for them? Imo, if anything actually would change, it would actually be for the worse, since additional jobs might even be lost.

I see this in comments on Dutch news sites too a lot of the time. People complain about evil companies and rich people and pretty much put the blame for their own crappy life completely on them.

[PosPosPos]

Time isn't the issue; it's potential for that time. If you have a massive % of disposable income you could be spending this time doing something a lot more satisfying that arguing about nothing on the internet.

Why should I? Because you decided that doing something else is better worth my time?

I have plenty of time and money, I choose to "waste" it however I want, because I can and I will. Ironic since you conservatives are all about personal freedoms, yet feel the need to nose in on people's personal life and what they do there.

The original comment was directed at someone who posts here ALOT. The point was he has night unlimited options for his free time due to his income, and he chooses THIS.

I do as well, and again, we choose to post here and irritate the crap out of you because we can.

[alexw]

It's really funny that the middle/lower classes working minimum wages are campaigning against their own interests, and the rich are fighting for better treatment of the less endowed.

I guess if you all really want us to keep our money and grow even more just by sitting it in some long term deposit/investment, so be it.

They are brainwashed right-wingers. About 50 years ago the wealthy were seeing that the average citizen was slowly but surely becoming more equal to them in terms of income wealth and opportunity. As a result they started up and funded propaganda outlets like the heritage foundation, American Enterprise Institute, etc, to propagandize for them and to convince the poor and middle class that them becoming obscenely wealthy would be a good thing. Now it took a while for the propaganda to have its effect, but slowly and surely it did and now large numbers of poor and middle class effectively argue that them being poorer is a good and just thing. Its utterly stupid of course and not every right winger has swallowed this nonsense, but lots have and they simply cannot take the hit to their psyche to admit they are wrong.

[Mayhem]

But do people honestly think that if the corporations pay more tax that anything will change for them? Imo, if anything actually would change, it would actually be for the worse, since additional jobs might even be lost.

What? Do you know one company that employs people without needing them?

[alexw]

But do people honestly think that if the corporations pay more tax that anything will change for them? Imo, if anything actually would change, it would actually be for the worse, since additional jobs might even be lost.

I see this in comments on Dutch news sites too a lot of the time. People complain about evil companies and rich people and pretty much put the blame for their own crappy life completely on them.

Why would jobs be lost? Why would the demand for goods and services in the economy be decreased by increased corporation tax? That does not make sense.

[Deleted]

What? Do you know one company that employs people without needing them?

I know companies that will let people do double the work if they want to cut costs. Even one where people do the work of 3 people.

[teddytous]

Why should I? Because you decided that doing something else is better worth my time?

I have plenty of time and money, I choose to "waste" it however I want, because I can and I will. Ironic since you conservatives are all about personal freedoms, yet feel the need to nose in on people's personal life and what they do there.



I do as well, and again, we choose to post here and irritate the crap out of you because we can.

Far more likely you/OP just another liar on the internet.

Honestly if not, it doesn't annoy me so much as make me feel really bad for you, or your lack of imaginative ways to enjoy life.

[PosPosPos]

They are brainwashed right-wingers. About 50 years ago the wealthy were seeing that the average citizen was slowly but surely becoming more equal to them in terms of income wealth and opportunity. As a result they started up and funded propaganda outlets like the heritage foundation, American Enterprise Institute, etc, to propagandize for them and to convince the poor and middle class that them becoming obscenely wealthy would be a good thing. Now it took a while for the propaganda to have its effect, but slowly and surely it did and now large numbers of poor and middle class effectively argue that them being poorer is a good and just thing. Its utterly stupid of course and not every right winger has swallowed this nonsense, but lots have and they simply cannot take the hit to their psyche to admit they are wrong.

Hey, all the power to me. I can sit and laze around and still be worshiped by these people by virtue of being rich by inheritance. #feelsgood

- - - Updated - - -

Far more likely you/OP just another liar on the internet.

Honestly if not, it doesn't annoy me so much as make me feel really bad for you, or your lack of imaginative ways to enjoy life.

I mean you are doing it too and engaging me in this back-and-forth, so pot calling the kettle black? You are like one of those hypocrites who bash others for "wasting" their lives gaming - on a gaming forums.

I don't need to prove anything to you, I am rich and I am lazy relative to most people in the world but those like you will always apologize for me. Have a nice day pandering to us, though

[Captain N]

Sorry, rich people are automatically hard working and "deserving" of their money.

But only if by earning that money they don't use any type of government programs or through the use of collective bargaining.

[Wilian]

Someone has more money than others because he's more hardowrking/succesfull in life? HE SHOULD PAY MORE TAXES!
^ Typical Lefties arogant thinking

Implying that the money feeded to them by others is hard earned.

[Mistame]

Implying that the money feeded to them by others is hard earned.

There's no valid argument in "hard-earned" or not. All that matters is that it's earned. If a person creates a product that someone else is willing to pay for, they're not "feeded" (fed) by anyone else. They've merely exchanged, equally, one thing for another. That's one form of earning and taxes aside, their side of the result of the exchange is theirs and they owe no one else anything.

[Wilian]

There's no valid argument in "hard-earned" or "easily-earned". All that matters is that it's earned. If a person creates a product that someone else is willing to pay for, they're not "feeded" (fed) by anyone else. They've merely exchanged, equally, one thing for another. Taxes aside, their side of the result of the exchange is theirs and they owe no one else anything.

You imply they created or contributed anything. By big and large they are inheritors of better people who use the wealth that is generated to them by lower tier to bribe politicians and rig the government against anyone else so they may retain their status quo. That is about only effort ever done by on their part, rigging the system further.

[Mistame]

You imply they created or contributed anything. By big and large they are inheritors of better people who use the wealth that is generated to them by lower tier to bribe politicians and rig the government against anyone else so they may retain their status quo. That is about only effort ever done by on their part, rigging the system further.

This has nothing to with what I said unless you're trying to say that all wealthy people "rig" the system to retain their status quo which is infantile. Also, "inherited" wealth was earned at some point and by proxy is still earned.

[Wilian]

This has nothing to with what I said unless you're trying to say that all wealthy people "rig" the system to retain their status quo which is infantile. Also, "inherited" wealth was earned at some point and by proxy is still earned.

It has everything to do with what you said. Also do point out the part in my text or my original post where I said -all- wealthy people do that. Please do. I am waiting.

Just reminded, the topic opener stated quite specific group, not every wealthy person so that's the context for you in case you fail at reading comprehension.

[Zarc]

Someone has more money than others because he's more hardowrking/succesfull in life? HE SHOULD PAY MORE TAXES!
^ Typical Lefties arogant thinking

Well. Property rights is not a natural state of things. A very basic function of society is to uphold property rights so those 1,000 people who work for that 1 guy don't just decide they can steal all his stuff. For that you need a legislature to pass laws, law enforcement to enforce the laws, and courts to uphold the laws. Kind of makes sense for those who own the most stuff to pay the most into the societal structure that provides them their right to have ownership of said stuff. Not to mention all the other little details, as in you taking advantage of workers educated by the public schools, having your workers staying healthy or being able to recover using the public healthcare, or if you are a business that rely on the transportation of goods benefiting from the public roads and railroads that transport said goods. Makes kind of sense for you to pay more into that system if you get more use out of it. To quote Obama, who so famously got misinterpreted when he somewhat clumsily stated; "You didn't build that".

[Deleted]

Well. Property rights is not a natural state of things. A very basic function of society is to uphold property rights so those 1,000 people who work for that 1 guy don't just decide they can steal all his stuff. For that you need a legislature to pass laws, law enforcement to enforce the laws, and courts to uphold the laws. Kind of makes sense for those who own the most stuff to pay the most into the societal structure that provides them their right to have ownership of said stuff. Not to mention all the other little details, as in you taking advantage of workers educated by the public schools, having your workers staying healthy or being able to recover using the public healthcare, or if you are a business that rely on the transportation of goods benefiting from the public roads and railroads that transport said goods. Makes kind of sense for you to pay more into that system if you get more use out of it. To quote Obama, who so famously got misinterpreted when he somewhat clumsily stated; "You didn't build that".

It is actually..

People are individuals. Trying to clump humans together artificially is not a natural thing. Most people capable and motivated to raise above and achieve something would not even bother if they didnt have any control over their success. Socialism and left wing policies are guaranteed to lead to stagnation for that reason alone.

As for the workers rights, I think as long as you have the right to quit at any time, its a business transaction. You trade your work for money. If you dont like the working conditions or the pay is too low, just quit? Whats the problem?