Did Blizzard Ruined Suramar?

[SirCowdog]

Why cater to the casuals...

Because those are the people funding the game. Jesus....did we learn nothing from Wildstar?

Locking everything behind massive grind walls and time gates is a horrible design. Not only is it mostly just filler that doesn't add anything interesting to the gameplay, but it splits the playerbase. Why do you think dungeon attunements were removed in the first place?

[Exer]

Making you play the game to earn what you see/experience is hardly much to ask. At least that is how the thinking usually goes.

People will always find a way to complain about attunements.

I loved the TBC style attunements back in the days.. It gave you a sense of progression that is not tied to gear progression. There are major flaws to that old system which could easily be avoided with a thoughtful design. I dont think gating the first raid would be the best idea since it unlocks quite early. That'd put extra pressure for nothing on raiders. Considering they seem to like the idea of having 2 raids for the first tier following an expac release, there is no reason the 2nd raid couldn't be gated behind an attunement. And instead of each raid members being attuned, it could be unlocked for a guild when say 80% of the raid group composed of guild members, all on the raid part of the quest chain, completes the quest/requirement. That'd eliminate one of the biggest critique of TBC attunement; no need to carry new recruits through old content in the future. And just so we don't get forced to run 3x the raid (once per difficulty), once you're attuned to that raid, you can do any difficulty you like.


Too much emphasis was put on raiding lately. There are so many possibilities to link raiding and the open world. It's just a matter of finding a sweet balance (no insane grinding, I think we can all agree no one likes a marathon-style grinding either.... might be a great opportunity to bring back scenarios) and blizzard sticking to their guns no matter how loud complainers complain.

[Erixi]

I heard somewhere that in a recent build they added a ton of gating mechanics to block off content in suramar. Including blocking off the 2 dungeons behind a rep grind. They also apparently made it more like tanaan jungle. I absolutely despise Tanaan. Please don't tell me they removed some of the quests making the zone shorter either. I was so hyped about an endgame zone that can't be done in 3 hrs. Does anyone with beta access know what changes were made to Suramar? I was really really looking forward to it after seeing videos praising it.

The zone takes a while. I think I've been working on it for the better part of 2 weeks doing what I can when I can. The problem is that the zone was barely in Alpha. I want to say only 2 patches before Alpha ended, but it might have been 3. Either way, the zone was buggy and half finished before Beta happened. It was missing textures up till the last patch if you catch my drift.

Now that the bugs are getting fixed and people have more time to experience the quest lines, know what they have to do, and the quest path is more set, things are getting easier in the zone. The number one complaint was and has been the gathering of Ancient Mana. I love how it was actually difficult yet very easy to gather. People get upset about getting 800 or 1200 of this to the point of rage quiting, yet that's only about an hour of work.

With the Leyline Mastery Buff (still not working for casters), the shoulder enchant that never seems to give me mana but has stocked me in health potions, and the Leyline Feeders working correctly (lowers the cost of getting the buff, keeps the addicts at bay, and increases the amount of mana you gather) it becomes a fun just wonder and do quests while gathering mana. I managed to get just under 350 mana in 15 minutes of non-farming with the buff and shoulder enchant. I blew through 2000 mana in 2 quests, but gained it back in about an hour of messing around.

Blizz also lowered the mana needed to finish the Leyline Feeders from 500 to 200 (quests say 250), which makes it a bit easier but you have to actively go out and find all 10 of these. There are more crystals on the ground, yet I do believe they changed the proc rate that these can be upgraded to higher levels.

You will still need to get half way to honored to get CoS instance and the initial quest chains should give you the Archway instance. Speaking of which, doing the initial quests got me to about half way through Friendly the past 2 times doing it. I won't do check again till Character Transfers are active, but the rep farm from mid friendly to mid honored was about 2-3 days if you did every single world quest.

There is literally so much to do at 110 that doing all these world quests take a complete day if you don't work on the already full quest log that you have by the time you hit 110. So there is things to do. Not to mention that if their plans of adding new content to all the zones first content patch happens, you're looking at revisiting some of the zones multiple times for various quest chains... oh god it's great!

[Pull My Finger]

im ok with the rep as long as im able to keep playing and eventually get it. Rather than be locked out and not allowed to earn what I need to progress through the story. Like am i limited to how much rep i can get a day? If what your saying is true, I can enjoy the story at my own pace and not the pace the game tells me.

Blah, blah. Enjoy the story at my own pace ... oh come on. That's some of the silliest things I hear people say.

Of course you're gonna do everything "at the pace the game tells you", and there's never been anything wrong with that. EVERY game has you do stuff the way it's intended, and nobody's asking you how you'd like it best today.

Everything's a problem now! Every single little aspect of WHATEVER has to be second-guessed. A ridiculous attitude.

[RedGamer030]

The only "gating mechanic" is how much time you want to spend in the zone, and of course the 110 level requirement.

[Wingspan]

Because those are the people funding the game. Jesus....did we learn nothing from Wildstar?

Locking everything behind massive grind walls and time gates is a horrible design. Not only is it mostly just filler that doesn't add anything interesting to the gameplay, but it splits the playerbase. Why do you think dungeon attunements were removed in the first place?

See post number 43.

[Venziir]

Would you be okay if 5.1-style quest chain about Genn and Sylvanas would be gated behind 2.2k PvP rating? Not everyone love every aspect of the game.

.... Logic 101.

[Vestig3]

I love gated content tbh (no sarcasm)

[FelPlague]

You sure about that? In WoD flying unlocked a few previously unreachable areas, same may be true in Legion.

Where? Could reach anywhere with my feather of avaiana and shredder in gorgrond

[Wingspan]

.... Logic 101.

I totally agreed with his counter-point by the way... see post number 43.

[FelPlague]

And I love how for years people have begged for attunements. And blizzard is starting g to add them back... then bam people shit on it

- - - Updated - - -

Would you be okay if 5.1-style quest chain about Genn and Sylvanas would be gated behind 2.2k PvP rating? Not everyone love every aspect of the game.

Yes because 2.2 rating is the exact same as doing some dailies... there is a pvp Rep BTW... so if it was gated behind that Rep. That would be fine. Or honor level maybe. Or preistige

[Enthralled]

Because those are the people funding the game. Jesus....did we learn nothing from Wildstar?

Locking everything behind massive grind walls and time gates is a horrible design.

I see no massive grind walls and time gates here, even from what's being described. Laughing Skull rep was a massive grind wall. This is not.

[George Costanza]

Its NOTHING like tanaan. it is basically more like ehm.... Well I suppose Queldanas but you just unlock a quest chain and a tree becomes biger and more people join you the more you find their quests.

Tanaan was shit. Suramar is good. but It doesnt feel "warcraft" to me, it feels very out of touch, (mostly because there is no NPCs that I know are fighting the legion from the other continents there aside from the PC.

[Traveler Voltin]

first its dungeons. then its raids, then its raid bosses.

[SirCowdog]

How is that even comparable? These Suramar dungeons arent locked behind defeating Mythic Guldan. They're basic quests that anyone can do, it'll just take a little time.

Doesn't anyone see the conflict of interest here? In a game that profits from a monthly subscription being chocked full of unnecessary time-gating. This is where people chime in with the argument "Well that's what an MMO is!!!!" No. That's what a BAD MMO is.

[Beet]

Really dungeons locked behind a rep grind?

Well that wont go over when it hits live.

Yeah it always makes me laugh when I look at things like this and know today's players won't accept it. I remember in TBC it was pretty much fine needing to get the reps to run heroic dungeons. And now needing a rep is unheard of thinking. I think rep requirements and gating is a good thing. Blizzard needs stuff to keep people subbed for the long term.

[nazrakin]

Doesn't anyone see the conflict of interest here? In a game that profits from a monthly subscription being chocked full of unnecessary time-gating. This is where people chime in with the argument "Well that's what an MMO is!!!!" No. That's what a BAD MMO is.

If thats the case then I dont think I've ever seen a "good" MMO since they all rely on time gates either in the form of large grinds, lockouts, or a mixture of the two.

[FelPlague]

Doesn't anyone see the conflict of interest here? In a game that profits from a monthly subscription being chocked full of unnecessary time-gating. This is where people chime in with the argument "Well that's what an MMO is!!!!" No. That's what a BAD MMO is.

So wait you mean attunements... like the ones in vanilla and bc... ones people begged for... and daily Rep grinds... things we have had since bc... and Grundy reps... since we have had since vanilla... ARE SUDDENLY THE APOCALYPSE? Nah that would be stupis

[Rivin]

Doesn't anyone see the conflict of interest here? In a game that profits from a monthly subscription being chocked full of unnecessary time-gating. This is where people chime in with the argument "Well that's what an MMO is!!!!" No. That's what a BAD MMO is.

FFXIV is widely considered to be one of the better modern MMOs, which is still going strong with a subscription, and almost every piece of content and feature in it is locked behind something else.

[SirCowdog]

If thats the case then I dont think I've ever seen a "good" MMO since they all rely on time gates either in the form of large grinds, lockouts, or a mixture of the two.

Sure, some time investment in the game isn't a bad thing. It's when it goes the route of WoW where they start putting time gating in EVERYTHING that it becomes bad.