Arms Legion Discussion

[Recke]

Keeping in mind that getting one stat to 40%+ early on is going to leave your other stats pretty low, it's important to recognize that the racial won't provide the same absolute amount to every stat. In general, the Human racial is going to be best for classes that want every stat in more or less equal amounts, while specs that heavily prioritize one stat over another are going to want more specialized bonuses.

Yeah, reread it, still don't know what you wanted me to get out of your obvious statement that had any relevancy to what I asked. So, I'll restate:
For ARMS warriors, since we will likely be utilizing most stats, will the additional amount of stat we get out perform the other racials (besides potentially Pandaren early on).
To note: I don't have beta access, so I don't know the stats ratings people are looking at in full dungeon gear.

EDIT: Also, due to it providing bonuses for all stats, wouldn't it still be the best for specs that heavily prioritize one stat, as well, based on the total stat value we get from Human?

[Vojka]

Hope you have a healer.

So just like every other expansion except MoP maybe.

I like this new layout for talents actually, will post feedback during the week sometime when I get more of a feel for it.

[Archimtiros]

Yeah, reread it, still don't know what you wanted me to get out of your obvious statement that had any relevancy to what I asked. So, I'll restate:
For ARMS warriors, since we will likely be utilizing most stats, will the additional amount of stat we get out perform the other racials (besides potentially Pandaren early on).
To note: I don't have beta access, so I don't know the stats ratings people are looking at in full dungeon gear.

EDIT: Also, due to it providing bonuses for all stats, wouldn't it still be the best for specs that heavily prioritize one stat, as well, based on the total stat value we get from Human?

Don't be a dick if you're going to ask people for help, it's unbecoming. Read what I wrote and you'll see the answer is readily presented.

Yeah, but does it not apply to ALL stats of the player or is it only the top 1 stat, because it was my understanding it was 2% of all secondary stats, which adds up over the 4 stats.
http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/20598-the-human-spirit

Assume something like .75% crit (using a smaller than the one provided) and say .25% haste, this is already 1% bonus secondary stats over say, Worgen and Night Elf. And then we have Versatility and Mastery to further skew things.

Reread the second to last paragraph.
As stated, yes, you may end up with a total of 1% or even higher in pure stats, but unless you actually value all of those stats, it's easy for it to work out to being worth less than a flat 1% to the stat you actually want the most.

Ignoring the fact that you made a statement rather than asking a question, yes, it does apply to all stats of the player, as repeated above (now three times). If the obvious statement is not relevant enough for you, rephrase your question to ask what you actually mean.



Similarly ignoring the fact that you didn't actually ask whether or not it was good for Arms, Warriors in general, or anything else. The answer is the same as has been repeated many times: the difference is trivial. If you absolutely want an answer though, you're going to have to wait until sample gear sets have been put together (or you know do something for yourself), which generally doesn't happen until near launch.

Regarding your final, edited in question, you'll find the answer within my first reply which you twice ignored:

Keeping in mind that getting one stat to 40%+ early on is going to leave your other stats pretty low, it's important to recognize that the racial won't provide the same absolute amount to every stat. In general, the Human racial is going to be best for classes that want every stat in more or less equal amounts, while specs that heavily prioritize one stat over another are going to want more specialized bonuses.

In other words, generally no, the Human racial won't be as good for classes that can get a set value of the stat they want the most. That said, it's impossible to say without actually knowing what amount of stat we're talking about or how those stats are weighted for the particular class. Stat weights matter. 0.70% Crit, 0.15% Haste, 0.10% Mastery and 0.20% Versatility is very different from 0.70% Crit, 0.05% Versatility, 0.25% Mastery and 0.10% Haste, even though they add up to the same amount. Likewise, if you weight Crit heavily enough, 1% pure crit will out perform that combination even though it adds up to more than 1% in raw stats.

[Breccia]

One of the blues did post a while back (1-2 months ago) that they do indeed listen to feedback.

And incidentally, if you think about what this means -- that of all the feedback and questions they've seen from us, the only one they choose to respond to is "are you even listening?" - says something, doesn't it? The fact that they felt it was more important to claim (not prove) they were listening, rather than to discuss anything else in the spec. Just think about what that means.

[Murlocbait]

And incidentally, if you think about what this means -- that of all the feedback and questions they've seen from us, the only one they choose to respond to is "are you even listening?" - says something, doesn't it? The fact that they felt it was more important to claim (not prove) they were listening, rather than to discuss anything else in the spec. Just think about what that means.

Their latest post about talents pretty much says it all to me. They state at least twice in it that they are committed to not going back to themed talent tiers, despite the fact that they also admit that their changes have created problems that they are working to fix with the recent talent position changes across numerous classes (including us). It's the "we hear you, but we think we're right even though we see that we're wrong" philosophy that makes no fucking sense to me (same thing happened in that epic Brewmaster discussion). They have committed themselves to this new talent ideology, even though it is proving to be wrong before the game is even goddamn live. I don't know how a group of people can be so stubborn and arrogant that even while they see that they are wrong (they've made changes based on the fact that the new direction is flawed), they continue to assert that they are right.

[Maltore]

But at least don't do it at the expense of even less damage outside of csmash. I saw a post about it on the official forum beta class thread. You guys have done an absolutely shit ton of phenomenal work on feedback and it really pisses me off that nothing's been done about it but I'm afraid Blizzard will up and listen to his one idea and say "we listen to all feedback and respond!".

I think the idea would be to only adjust the mastery bonus - i.e. reduction of damage inside CS for a gain of CS up-time reliability. This would (ideally) mean no change to damage outside CS.

I suppose you could argue that Titanic Might offers this as an alternative, but perhaps it goes too far and/or still doesn't solve the unlucky streak problem. Even with Titanic Might, it's still possible to go the full CD of CS without it resetting, even though they've stated that the intent of that talent is to effectively give at or near 100% CS up-time.

[Artunias]

I don't think anyone has advocated for nerfing our base damage in exchange for higher tactician proc. Most have been based on nerfing mastery or the set bonus, if they need to nerf anything at all.

[Deleted]

I dont get, how you guys get rage starved, never happened to me before with arms, not even during long execute phases, in for the kill talent is pretty much useless, the other two talents in that row, might get me below 50% rage, but nowhere near to starve.

https://gyazo.com/6e3969a7549512ddbafc376185ffffb4

[Artunias]

I dont get, how you guys get rage starved, never happened to me before with arms, not even during long execute phases, in for the kill talent is pretty much useless, the other two talents in that row, might get me below 50% rage, but nowhere near to starve.

https://gyazo.com/6e3969a7549512ddbafc376185ffffb4

Any comments I've seen are based on not taking dauntless. Also dauntless used to be broken with execute causing it to only consume 8 rage but deal damage as if it consumed 40. Not sure if that's fixed

[Kirbydude65]

Any comments I've seen are based on not taking dauntless. Also dauntless used to be broken with execute causing it to only consume 8 rage but deal damage as if it consumed 40. Not sure if that's fixed

Even then without Dauntless you don't have terribly large rage problems if you utilize Heroic Charging.

[Deleted]

Even then without Dauntless you don't have terribly large rage problems if you utilize Heroic Charging.

Exactly,
Btw looking at the bug, it didnt seem to be fixed yet.

[Artunias]

Even then without Dauntless you don't have terribly large rage problems if you utilize Heroic Charging.

Indeed. It almost feels like something changed with rage generation in one of the beta builds. As in alpha without dauntless it was pretty bad, but now running overpower it doesn't seem to be an issue until execute phase.

[bladeXcrasher]

Even then without Dauntless you don't have terribly large rage problems if you utilize Heroic Charging.

But that may not be in their intended vision, it wasn't in WoD. Nothing to say they go to current charge rage generation in Legion last minute...

[Vojka]

Well after a bit of playing on the pvp realm. Focused rage is fucking horrible, mortal combo feels a bit better but still lackluster. The meta gameplay for arms just seems to be overly buffing mortal strike then one shotting someone with it, this is poor design and they have done this same exact mistake for warriors in the past, why they keep repeating the same mistake is beyond me.. Problem is that this is arms major strength going into legion and if they nerf it (which they most likely will) we then have nothing.

Defensive stance very much mandatory and you very much sit in it 99% of the time. I really enjoy cleave and ww synergy, warbreaker is fun too, bladestorm baseline is marvellous.

Fury feels meh overall until you get mad cooldown reduction proc then you feel like a god for a bit.

[Accendor]

I don't know, I still have extreme rage problems, with and without Dauntless. Of course it is not as bad with Dauntless but I am still missing some GCDs and I am never above 50 rage. Not using Heroic Charge of course, because Leap is important for repositioning and mobility. But even with heroic charge (Tried it of course) my rage problems still have barely evolved. Again, I think that this Spec could be awesome with the legendary MS gauntlets, but without them I see no reason to play it because of the issues with rage atm.

[Warriorsarri]

You don't need to use leap in ordet to make Heroic Charge work, it simply makes it easier. If you track your GCD and Swing Timer well enough you can simply run out when you notice that those two sync up, meaning (without haste) you have 1.5 seconds to simply run out of melee range, then charge back in.

[Artunias]

I don't know, I still have extreme rage problems, with and without Dauntless. Of course it is not as bad with Dauntless but I am still missing some GCDs and I am never above 50 rage. Not using Heroic Charge of course, because Leap is important for repositioning and mobility. But even with heroic charge (Tried it of course) my rage problems still have barely evolved. Again, I think that this Spec could be awesome with the legendary MS gauntlets, but without them I see no reason to play it because of the issues with rage atm.

Do you have any artifact traits? Are you still in starter gear? If you pick dauntless you should have zero rage issues above 20% no matter what you're doing.

[bladeXcrasher]

You don't need to use leap in ordet to make Heroic Charge work, it simply makes it easier. If you track your GCD and Swing Timer well enough you can simply run out when you notice that those two sync up, meaning (without haste) you have 1.5 seconds to simply run out of melee range, then charge back in.

But will they allow this or break it again? If they allow it, why not just make charge work in melee range like it did back in BWD on Chimaeron if the game play is going to be charge for rage?

[Artunias]

Being forced to heroic charge is pretty dumb. Charge had its purpose for almost a decade. It was a gap closer, target switch, and generated resources to make up for time off a target. That's all it needs to be. I haven't found a need to heroic charge, and I'm hoping I don't.

[Maltore]

Being forced to heroic charge is pretty dumb. Charge had its purpose for almost a decade. It was a gap closer, target switch, and generated resources to make up for time off a target. That's all it needs to be. I haven't found a need to heroic charge, and I'm hoping I don't.

I'm with ya. I don't like heroic charging (or even running out to charge back in). It feels too gimmicky. But, of course, I'd do it if I felt that it gave me an advantage...

However, I'd rather feel like I need to heroic charge, than lose the rage generation on every charge (like we have in WoD). Not sure how you can eliminate heroic charging but leave in the rage generation on every charge.