Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
... LastLast
  1. #21
    There are plenty of less (or in some cases more) efficient modes of travel that could be used instead of cars that would cut down on traffic fatalities dramatically.
    There isn't enough public transportation in many places.

    They're not letting them "just stream across". The governments on the front line are doing their best to process the refugees and the countries that eventually accept them all, to my knowledge, have vetting processes in place. If they don't, they should put them in place. I don't think anyone is asking or expecting for countries to freely accept any and all refugees without doing any background checks or vetting of them beforehand.
    Obviously not doing enough if refugees have ISIS cells.

  2. #22
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Somewhere special
    Posts
    21,699
    Quote Originally Posted by Nelinrah View Post
    Obviously not doing enough if refugees have ISIS cells.
    There are always oversights; you can't create a system which is guaranteed to not allow ISIS cells among refugees to appear. How many cells? If it is just a few dozen people, some of which have already been caught, then perhaps the governments are doing pretty darn good job?
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  3. #23
    Pit Lord lokithor's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Mobile, AL
    Posts
    2,396
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    You're saying that out of millions of people, a dozen were bad? Gee, that's almost like, statistically average.
    Thats just that they now know about, there could be hundreds for all we know.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Nelinrah View Post
    Obviously not doing enough if refugees have ISIS cells.
    Again, you can never, ever, be 100% sure when dealing with people traveling to your country from anywhere. Criminals legally travel to commit crimes all the time, and despite countries best efforts to stop it they can't do that 100% of the time. So if 100% prevention is your target when it comes to travelers of any time, then any travel across borders would need to be shut down as it's the only way to ensure that no potential threats to a nation or its citizens could cross its borders.

    Hell, IIRC all of those that attacked Paris last year were French/Belgian nationals, they were born there. They weren't migrants from a sleeper cell, they were radicalized nationals.

  5. #25
    So letting streams of illegal migrants illegaly into your countries and let them roam around freely is not a good idea? Who would have thought! The leftwing told us that terrorists use planes (forged passes) and wouldnt take the "long journey" (not even a week of comfortable traveling through europe with train/bus lol).

    And for the people saying "Carz are more dangerous", so what? The one is an accident that happens while we use the car for our advantage (transportation is important) the other is a crime comitted by religious motivated people who hate the way we live with no advantages attached at all.

    By your logic we should all not care for rightwing crime / leftwing crime because we drive very dangerous cars!

  6. #26
    If the refugee crisis hadn't given them an obvious way in, they'd have found another one. Terrorists have been a thing for years. If they wanted to get in and this hadn't happened, they'd have found some other way. That doesn't mean the thousands of innocents aren't worth helping.

  7. #27
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Somewhere special
    Posts
    21,699
    Quote Originally Posted by lonely zergling View Post
    And for the people saying "Carz are more dangerous", so what? The one is an accident that happens while we use the car for our advantage (transportation is important) the other is a crime comitted by religious motivated people who hate the way we live with no advantages attached at all.
    Sometimes cars are used by drunk bastards that can't see straight, or by crazed criminals that enjoy rolling over people. So, reducing the number of migrants based on some of them being religious fanatics hating on Europe makes just as much sense as reducing the number of cars based on what I just said.

    And once again, there ARE advantages to the institute of refuge. For one, where do you think would all those people go if Europe didn't accept them, given that the countries around Syria couldn't care less about them? Something tells me that ISIS would become quite a bit bigger, and perhaps even succeed at forming their own country. And the consequences of THAT would be way worse than a few terrorist attacks across the planet.

    Yes, you can't just taking in everyone without questioning them. But the reasoning is different. A negligible percentage of them being terrorists is a very poor reason to use.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Again, you can never, ever, be 100% sure when dealing with people traveling to your country from anywhere. Criminals legally travel to commit crimes all the time, and despite countries best efforts to stop it they can't do that 100% of the time. So if 100% prevention is your target when it comes to travelers of any time, then any travel across borders would need to be shut down as it's the only way to ensure that no potential threats to a nation or its citizens could cross its borders.

    Hell, IIRC all of those that attacked Paris last year were French/Belgian nationals, they were born there. They weren't migrants from a sleeper cell, they were radicalized nationals.
    I get wanting to help people but this whole open boarders thing is self destructive their culture just don't mesh with ours.

    A good example would be Africa. We built them up far more then they were ready to be and the second we left it collapsed into a over populated, starving, shithole.

    There needs to be strong boarders and maybe if we were being realistic only taking in a couple hundred a year for the EU. The way it is going they are going to start the largest and likely the bloodiest civil war ever seen.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Foosha View Post
    If you take gang violence out of this equation, the homicide rate plummets. And let's be honest, unless you live in inner city Chicago...Detroit, East St. Louis, you really got nothing to worry about

    And this is fucking so perfect from refugee apologists. LOL YOU GOT KILLED BY A SUICIDE BOMBER? WELL, YOU COULD HAVE BEEN KILLED BY A TEXTING TEENAGER!

    Stop with the red herrings. Being killed by something deliberate is far more worse than a dipshit teenager. Teenagers (and any auto accident) will always be present with the human equation.
    Um, I imagine most of those homicides are deliberate. And dead is dead.

    If you "take gang violence out of it"?

    The total number of gang homicides reported by respondents in the NYGS sample averaged nearly 2,000 annually from 2007 to 2012. During roughly the same time period (2007 to 2011), the FBI estimated, on average, more than 15,500 homicides across the United States (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...tables/table-1). These estimates suggest that gang-related homicides typically accounted for around 13 percent of all homicides annually.
    https://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/s...-gang-problems

    So, do we have a gang problem or a gun problem? Data collected by the National Gang Center, the government agency responsible for cataloging gang violence, makes clear that it’s the latter. There were 1,824 gang-related killings in 2011. This total includes deaths by means other than a gun. The Bureau of Justice Statistics finds this number to be even lower, identifying a little more than 1,000 gang-related homicides in 2008. In comparison, there were 11,101 homicides and 19,766 suicides committed with firearms in 2011.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/evan-d...b_5071639.html

    Doesn't make a big difference. Not that there's any reason to take gang violence out of it, I take it you're parroting some lame conservative talking point there.

    And again, that's in ONE YEAR. 9/11 only happened once, your homicide rate happens every year.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Um, I imagine most of those homicides are deliberate. And dead is dead.

    If you "take gang violence out of it"?


    https://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/s...-gang-problems


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/evan-d...b_5071639.html

    Doesn't make a big difference. Not that there's any reason to take gang violence out of it, I take it you're parroting some lame conservative talking point there.

    And again, that's in ONE YEAR. 9/11 only happened once, your homicide rate happens every year.
    Why is adding more deaths a year to the tally a desirable thing so long as it is any number less then what is already recorded in terms of murder.

    I fail to see it as a positive...

  11. #31
    I'm glad I live in Texas and don't have to deal with all this crazy refugee/immigrant stuff

    All we have to worry about is border jumpers,cartels, chupacabra, rattlesnakes, crocodiles and the government.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by May90 View Post
    Sometimes cars are used by drunk bastards that can't see straight, or by crazed criminals that enjoy rolling over people. So, reducing the number of migrants based on some of them being religious fanatics hating on Europe makes just as much sense as reducing the number of cars based on what I just said.

    And once again, there ARE advantages to the institute of refuge. For one, where do you think would all those people go if Europe didn't accept them, given that the countries around Syria couldn't care less about them? Something tells me that ISIS would become quite a bit bigger, and perhaps even succeed at forming their own country. And the consequences of THAT would be way worse than a few terrorist attacks across the planet.

    Yes, you can't just taking in everyone without questioning them. But the reasoning is different. A negligible percentage of them being terrorists is a very poor reason to use.
    We should be the ones to decide who is a proper refugee and not a threat to our society (the needs/security of our own people should always be more important than the needs of foreigners). Why even have borders if we just allow everyone to enter illegaly without consequences as long as he claims asylum (0.10% approval rate, impressive)? Time to change old ass fuck laws that were created before anyone knew that people will exploit them like its a competition. You know the newest thing some of those people came up with? They commit a crime just to prevent / delay the deportation process.

    Canada does the right thing (Never thought I would write this lol) in this situation, they select the harmless ones who need the most help.
    Last edited by lonely zergling; 2016-06-07 at 06:18 AM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Foosha View Post
    If you take gang violence out of this equation, the homicide rate plummets. And let's be honest, unless you live in inner city Chicago...Detroit, East St. Louis, you really got nothing to worry about

    And this is fucking so perfect from refugee apologists. LOL YOU GOT KILLED BY A SUICIDE BOMBER? WELL, YOU COULD HAVE BEEN KILLED BY A TEXTING TEENAGER!

    Stop with the red herrings. Being killed by something deliberate is far more worse than a dipshit teenager. Teenagers (and any auto accident) will always be present with the human equation.
    Forgive us for not taking the fear bait set by half the country and the media. Statistics to matter in this regard and fearing terrorism to me is like fearing bathroom accidents.
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  14. #34
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Somewhere special
    Posts
    21,699
    Quote Originally Posted by lonely zergling View Post
    We should be the ones to decide who is a proper refugee and not a threat to our society (the needs/security of our own people should always be more important than the needs of foreigners). Why even have borders if we just allow everyone to enter illegaly without consequences as long as he claims asylum (0.10% approval rate, impressive)? Time to change old ass fuck laws that were created before anyone knew that people will exploit them like its a competition. You know the newest thing some of those people came up with? They commit a crime just to prevent / delay the deportation process.

    Canada does the right thing (Never thought I would write this lol) in this situation, they select the harmless ones who need the most help.
    It is not that simple. Some of you folks act like the problem only exists because your government has decided to accept Syrian refugees; if it had decided not to accept any, then everything would be fine... Nope, not that simple: this isn't how the world works.

    Refugees need to go somewhere. Lebanon and other countries near Syria cannot take any more physically; they have taken way too many already; everyone else refuses to take them in. Someone has to do something. If Europe closes the door for them as well and there will be nowhere for them to go, what will happen? Mass deaths off starvation, attempts to get into other countries illegally (with worse consequences than as it is now), joining ISIS and other terrorist organizations... Refugee crises, if not attended, result in tragedies on an immense scale.

    Now, EU is supposed to address this problem, by redistributing refugees between its members, and by negotiating transfers with other friendly countries. Unfortunately, it is failing at that: other countries (US, Canada, Australia, for example) are in no hurry to help, and within the EU various members issue their own policies, some downright ignoring EU directions and not taking in any refugees at all. So, as a result, some countries suffer significantly by having to take more than they can handle, because no one else wants to participate, and just closing the doors and turning refugees around is a recipe for disaster.

    Asylum system as it is in EU works generally very well. It doesn't work well during crises such as this one, since the rate of going through applications is way lower than the rate at which those applications pile up; in the meantime, the asylum seekers have to be housed somewhere, even if in the end only 0.1% of them are approved. I do agree that, perhaps, in such extreme times these laws should be overridden by stricter temporary policies - but then, again, the question remains: what to do with the refugees? Just closing the door and ignoring the problem won't work and only result in even bigger long term problems.

    This is a really tough situation, with no simple solutions. Apparently what EU governments are doing is not working well... But then I've yet to hear a better proposal from anyone. Personally, I think that refugees should be engaged in some kind of productive work; I don't think people, in general, should just sit idle and consume governmental help without giving anything in return. But then, some would say, "But these people are running from the war, they have nowhere to go! Are you suggesting exploiting that? Making slaves out of them?". So, in the current societal and political climate, I doubt such proposal would even be considered seriously.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by May90 View Post
    Now, EU is supposed to address this problem, by redistributing refugees between its members, and by negotiating transfers with other friendly countries. Unfortunately, it is failing at that: other countries (US, Canada, Australia, for example) are in no hurry to help, and within the EU various members issue their own policies, some downright ignoring EU directions and not taking in any refugees at all. So, as a result, some countries suffer significantly by having to take more than they can handle, because no one else wants to participate, and just closing the doors and turning refugees around is a recipe for disaster.
    You know why the redistributing of refugees failed within the EU (the ~44k that was agreed on) because not enough refugees wanted to take the risk to land in countries like Romania / Slovenia. Why would you pay 11.000$ and (or) sell your wifes /kids body to smugglers if you could end up in Romania o_O. Safety is not important for this refugees somehow, they need the biggest welfare system to feel home.
    Last edited by lonely zergling; 2016-06-07 at 07:09 AM.

  16. #36
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Somewhere special
    Posts
    21,699
    Quote Originally Posted by lonely zergling View Post
    You know why the redistributing of refugees failed within the EU (the ~44k that was agreed on) because not enough refugees wanted to take the risk to land in countries like Romania / Slovenia. Why would you pay 11.000$ and (or) sell your wifes /kids body to smugglers if you could end up in Romania o_O. Safety is not important for this refugees somehow, they need the biggest welfare to feel home.
    Well, they aren't the ones to make the decision. If the EU had issued clear quotas for each country and then redistributed refugees there, regardless of where they applied for refugee status - then both fake refugee numbers would be reduced (no one wants to end up in Macedonia or something), and all the EU countries would have to bear a somewhat equal load.

    The problem is, EU doesn't work as well in practice as on paper. Countries cannot reach an agreement on these matters, and the central EU government doesn't seem to have much real power, sadly (or not, depending on where your views are on the centralization/decentralization spectrum). Germany and Sweden are taking heavy loads, while, say, Hungary and Poland are hardly taking anyone at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by May90 View Post
    Well, they aren't the ones to make the decision. If the EU had issued clear quotas for each country and then redistributed refugees there, regardless of where they applied for refugee status - then both fake refugee numbers would be reduced (no one wants to end up in Macedonia or something), and all the EU countries would have to bear a somewhat equal load.

    The problem is, EU doesn't work as well in practice as on paper. Countries cannot reach an agreement on these matters, and the central EU government doesn't seem to have much real power, sadly (or not, depending on where your views are on the centralization/decentralization spectrum).
    Then why do we allow them to walk illegaly through 10 countries just to apply for aslyum where they want? Also I dont think we can forcefully deport people to foreign countries. We better make sure they dont reach our soil.
    Last edited by lonely zergling; 2016-06-07 at 07:16 AM.

  18. #38
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by lonely zergling View Post
    You know why the redistributing of refugees failed within the EU (the ~44k that was agreed on) because not enough refugees wanted to take the risk to land in countries like Romania / Slovenia. Why would you pay 11.000$ and (or) sell your wifes /kids body to smugglers if you could end up in Romania o_O. Safety is not important for this refugees somehow, they need the biggest welfare system to feel home.
    Source? Or just generic OT bullshit?

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by khali View Post
    Source? Or just generic OT bullshit?
    Google it. Almost no refugees applied for the redistribution. Yet everyone blames evil east europe for not building homes for nonexistant refugees.
    Last edited by lonely zergling; 2016-06-07 at 07:18 AM.

  20. #40
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Somewhere special
    Posts
    21,699
    Quote Originally Posted by lonely zergling View Post
    Then why do we allow them to walk illegaly through 10 countries just to apply for aslyum where they want?
    Because it is hard to prevent that physically without harshly controlling borders (which goes against the whole Schengen idea). But, knowing that they do that, it is more reasonable to still redistribute them afterwards without asking their permission (they are fleeing the war, after all, not picking a place for vacation), than just keeping them wherever they have come.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •