"ISIS Sleeper cell was present in Dutch and German refugee camps"

[Yarathir]

you cant save everyone only the true adopters of their host countries cultures should be allowed to stay and thats going to be a very small minority, the rest go back after the war is over, but we both know thats not going to happen

You can save those willing to be saved. Sadly, little is done to weed out those that do not want to be saved, as implying that something like that should even be done is experiences as "run of the mill racism." by good friends, like the one above.

That aside, your view does not work in practice.

[Lucky Fable]

Not you. I mean't this thread is full of run of the mill racism.

I have actually not really seen any racism just people who realize a language barrier is a thing.

[Hellishreaper]

You can save those willing to be saved. Sadly, little is done to weed out those that do not want to be saved, as implying that something like that should even be done is experiences as "run of the mill racism." by good friends, like the one above.

That aside, your view does not work in practice.

and im supposed to believe accepting millions of migrants at a time is somehow going to work?

[Yarathir]

Not you. I mean't this thread is full of run of the mill racism.

Then why are you using other people to excuse your refusal to accept yet other people's points or arguments?

"This one guy in this thread is being a horrible racist, therefore I rather attack him and anyone who might seem to disagree with me and close myself off from considering anything."

It just seems to be justifying your own bad behaviour in order to condemn his.

[Deleted]

You can save those willing to be saved. Sadly, little is done to weed out those that do not want to be saved, as implying that something like that should even be done is experiences as "run of the mill racism." by good friends, like the one above.

That aside, your view does not work in practice.

That run of the mill racism he's talking about is there, obviously not the result of everyone that says no to refugees of course but the extremists that believe most if not all people of a certain geographic location are incapable of being valid members of society..pretty much the guy we were calling out earlier. We refuted his points with poise only to be met with an endless loop of "what if". Of course people are going to get pissed off.

[Yarathir]

and im supposed to believe accepting millions of migrants at a time is somehow going to work?

Both sides look at it in a black or white manner. Either we indiscriminately take in millions of refugees regardless of their intentions and plans or we don't take in any which would make us monsters or whatever.

This is how the two extremes look at it. Nuance seems lost.

[Slant]

Both sides look at it in a black or white manner. Either we indiscriminately take in millions of refugees regardless of their intentions and plans or we don't take in any which would make us monsters or whatever.

This is how the two extremes look at it. Nuance seems lost.

You're missing the point. That million refugees? That is the middle ground. The extreme would've been to take the further 2-3 million waiting in Turkey that really would like it here.

[Yarathir]

Because pretending racism is intellectual is pointless. Treating this like a formal debate when people are arguing unsubstantiated points of view with no evidence is pointless. I'm not going to waste my time just so I can feel superior to these people. I'd rather just get in the mud and muck about with them and prevent them from having a one sided conversation about racism.

So one racist post alone, to you, is capable of poisoning the well altogether and make all other views that don't fully mesh with your own as bad as the lowest denominator (the racist post/s)? Seems more like an easy way of covering your back to avoid having to consider any counterpoints or views to me, to be honest.

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You're missing the point. That million refugees? That is the middle ground. The extreme would've been to take the further 2-3 million waiting in Turkey that really would like it here.

I don't think you get to call something the middle-ground. I know it would be pretty convenient, because that means you can call anyone who does not agree with you on it the bigoted monsters, and that's not a position you get to claim, the same way the other side doesn't get to claim "We let no refugees in - they will have to fight for themselves." is the middle-ground.

[Hellishreaper]

Both sides look at it in a black or white manner. Either we indiscriminately take in millions of refugees regardless of their intentions and plans or we don't take in any which would make us monsters or whatever.

This is how the two extremes look at it. Nuance seems lost.

i already said the ones who really need help should get it it is black and white for the most part, but the problem is the majority are looking for a free ride the abuse of the system needs to stop

[Yarathir]

To be fair that was one particularly horrible post. And yeah, it's all it can take.

Eh I'm quite open to having my views questioned, but racism is not something that is worth considering. I don't see why i should pretend that it has any intellectual value when it's obviously just a reactionary view point.

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To be fair that was one particularly horrible post. And yeah, it's all it can take.

Eh I'm quite open to having my views questioned, but racism is not something that is worth considering. I don't see why i should pretend that it has any intellectual value when it's obviously just a reactionary view point.

You don't have to consider racism. I'm not telling you to. I'm telling you that it's unwise to not consider other people's posts on the basis that they share ONE similarity with the racist post in the form of not meshing with your posts.

Ignore or dismiss the racist posts, but don't use them as a shield not to consider other people's posts is what I'm saying.

[Deianeira]

You don't see a issue with that? Having millions of unemployed people taking massive amounts of resources and likely not being able to contribute only minimize the amount of wel fare they will need their entire lives?

At some point charity becomes self destructive there needed to be a cap in place.

The amount of racism in this post is staggering. So you mean to say that people from the middle east cant be educated or trained? Or that they are not already? You do realise that Before the wars down there they had lives and work and whatnot?

Nonono they are scum in your Eyes and are Worth nothing. Ofc they will have to learn the language of the country they are fleeing to. But in what time that happoens are actually up to the respective politicians in the different countries.

[Slant]

I don't think you get to call something the middle-ground. I know it would be pretty convenient, because that means you can call anyone who does not agree with you on it the bigoted monsters, and that's not a position you get to claim, the same way the other side doesn't get to claim "We let no refugees in - they will have to fight for themselves." is the middle-ground.

Ok, so you're setting the rules for your own discussion in a way that you cannot possibly be argued against. Pretty smart. Until, of course, there comes a guy (Hi!) that tells you to stop the bullshit. What we've done is the moderate way, because we felt obligated to do it. And once we realised the effects, we implemented changes and adapted, the borders are practically sealed shut for the moment with only hundreds trickling in at a time (Go Macedonia!). And there are millions waiting in Turkey to be let in.

When you are in a situation where you can legitimately say "It could've been worse!", you're by definition not on the extreme end. Like it or not, but you're just being obtuse for the sake of argument. And it's not contributing to the discussion in a constructive manner at all. You're by now just redefining the topic to suit your own narrative.

[Lucky Fable]

Both sides look at it in a black or white manner. Either we indiscriminately take in millions of refugees regardless of their intentions and plans or we don't take in any which would make us monsters or whatever.

This is how the two extremes look at it. Nuance seems lost.

I see it as a long term situation and with that reservations need to be made with the numbers you allow in. I can see tens of thousands per region working out with some difficulty but overall doable.

I simply don't see the system surviving for long with millions passing through it and very light if any back round checks being made over who they are.

[Deleted]

The amount of racism in this post is staggering. So you mean to say that people from the middle east cant be educated or trained? Or that they are not already? You do realise that Before the wars down there they had lives and work and whatnot?

Nonono they are scum in your Eyes and are Worth nothing. Ofc they will have to learn the language of the country they are fleeing to. But in what time that happoens are actually up to the respective politicians in the different countries.

To supplement your post: http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...kills-shortage
Of course, this does open up possibilities for more problems in regards to labor laws.

[Slant]

I see it as a long term situation and with that reservations need to be made with the numbers you allow in. I can see tens of thousands per region working out with some difficulty but overall doable.

I simply don't see the system surviving for long with millions passing through it and very light if any back round checks being made over who they are.

Tiny reality check, Germany's usual yearly numbers of asylum seekers and refugees is 500k. That is the average without any refugee crisis. "Tens of thousands" doesn't even register in our statistics very much.

[Lucky Fable]

The amount of racism in this post is staggering. So you mean to say that people from the middle east cant be educated or trained? Or that they are not already? You do realise that Before the wars down there they had lives and work and whatnot?

Nonono they are scum in your Eyes and are Worth nothing. Ofc they will have to learn the language of the country they are fleeing to. But in what time that happoens are actually up to the respective politicians in the different countries.

I don't believe it is racist to think people from another part of the world will speak and read a different language to your own.

Without being able to communicate what skills you have are mostly rendered useless.

[Yarathir]

Ok, so you're setting the rules for your own discussion in a way that you cannot possibly be argued against. Pretty smart. Until, of course, there comes a guy (Hi!) that tells you to stop the bullshit. What we've done is the moderate way, because we felt obligated to do it. And once we realised the effects, we implemented changes and adapted, the borders are practically sealed shut for the moment with only hundreds trickling in at a time (Go Macedonia!). And there are millions waiting in Turkey to be let in.

When you are in a situation where you can legitimately say "It could've been worse!", you're by definition not on the extreme end. Like it or not, but you're just being obtuse for the sake of argument. And it's not contributing to the discussion in a constructive manner at all. You're by now just redefining the topic to suit your own narrative.

No, in fact, that's all exactly what you are doing - stop projecting.

I'm the guy seeing "let's indiscriminately let refugees in." and "don't let any in."

I'm not saying I'm in the middle, but I'm saying that those two are the extremes, and I try to avoid the extremes.

I won't allow you to explicitly call your believes the middle ground. Like with what some political leftists do, it means that you have extreme leftists defining what being on the left really means, which in turn means that anyone not with them is on the far right.

[Slant]

No, in fact, that's all exactly what you are doing - stop projecting.

I'm the guy seeing "let's indiscriminately let refugees in." and "don't let any in."

I'm not saying I'm in the middle, but I'm saying that those two are the extremes, and I try to avoid the extremes.

I won't allow you to explicitly call your believes the middle ground. Like with what some political leftists do, it means that you have extreme leftists defining what being on the left really means, which in turn means that anyone not with them is on the far right.

You won't "allow" me? Haha, puhlease.

[Yarathir]

Ok? I'll keep that in mind when i see someone who is anti-immigration and not a racist.

I think I get what you're going for, seeing being an anti-immigration hardliner as inherently racist, and I don't necessarily disagree.

But there's a lot more shades in between "no, screw the refugees, no refugees here." and "let's throw our borders wide open and stand with our arms wide to hug any and all refugees."

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You won't "allow" me? Haha, puhlease.

Great point. It changed my mind.

[Slant]

Great point. It changed my mind.

Good, because after you successfully derailed the thread into bickering, I'm leaving now... have fun being obtuse.