South Africa passes Land Expropriation Bill

[Paklaaji]

The negative effects of apartheid cannot be denied. You can't expect people to actually get wealthy when they don't have shit. An american wouldn't understand this. You are known to not give a shit about your own people. But if they want a healthy society, they should help get the black population on their feet. Doesn't mean that taking their land is a good idea tho x).

According to the crowd that supports this bill - it`s not even ''their'' land.

[oxymoronic]

I'm not giving up. I'm just not fighting a losing battle any more. Africa is not a place for Europeans. They want Black Affirmative action. There is no discussion on what us Whites must do. We must just give way to black employees and only hire blacks as a priority. I can't tender for Government jobs unless I give 51% of my business away to black share-holders. I am just lucky I have a niche set of skills. My customer base, however, is aging. Friends and contacts I made 20 years ago are retiring. No new business is forthcoming.

You wouldn't believe the violence myself and my family members have been exposed too. Forget my violent history where I've been involved in at least three shooting incidents / attempted robberies.

Let's talk about my girlfriend - just her events - Just in the last three years, my girlfriend's mom (72) was strangled and left for dead on a Saturday morning while the attackers casually raided her fridge and ate food in her kitchen. Six months prior to that, they broke into her mom's childhood friend's house, a lady of 74 and tied her up with electrical cords, took turns raping her and then bashed her head in with a lamp post. A guy was stabbed to death outside her brother's house as he slept in the cul-de-sac in his truck. Both brothers had attempted robberies in the last six months. One brother was hit twice (two weeks ago, the most recent). My g/f's sister in-law was tied up less than a year ago and choked with a cord, then ribs crushed and then the guy ransacked her house. Last week, in a botched home invasion, a friend of my g/f was shot dead, husband wounded in a robbery.

My brother is in Dubai after being in security detail in Iraq for 8 years. He still maintains that the war zone in Iraq was safer than being a cop in South Africa.

Every night, I now have a lock-down. I spent almost a quarter of a million on security upgrades after the shooting in May last year.

This is not a life. What happens when I get older and my reflexes fail and I can't defend myself?

And, yes... we live in "good" areas of Port Elizabeth, South Africa.

use that money to move and retire somewhere nice.

[Jinpachi]

Well, let's be real here. The white South Africans don't really deserve to be there. The reason that most persons of European descent own land in South Africa is directly traceable to colonialism. The control of so much formerly black-dominated land by a white minority in Africa is on some level morally illegitimate.

Now, they can learn lessons from Mugabe's mistakes. Actually pay fair market price for the land and ensure that the black persons buying such land are capable of efficiently farming it.

My bottom line: South Africa was invaded by the Boers and the British. Legacies of their immoral colonialism and racism should be addressed.

They colonized and more or less conquered the land there. It's theirs. That's how conquest works. Read a history book.

[Altrec]

I'm not giving up. I'm just not fighting a losing battle any more. Africa is not a place for Europeans. They want Black Affirmative action. There is no discussion on what us Whites must do. We must just give way to black employees and only hire blacks as a priority. I can't tender for Government jobs unless I give 51% of my business away to black share-holders. I am just lucky I have a niche set of skills. My customer base, however, is aging. Friends and contacts I made 20 years ago are retiring. No new business is forthcoming.

You wouldn't believe the violence myself and my family members have been exposed too. Forget my violent history where I've been involved in at least three shooting incidents / attempted robberies.

Let's talk about my girlfriend - just her events - Just in the last three years, my girlfriend's mom (72) was strangled and left for dead on a Saturday morning while the attackers casually raided her fridge and ate food in her kitchen. Six months prior to that, they broke into her mom's childhood friend's house, a lady of 74 and tied her up with electrical cords, took turns raping her and then bashed her head in with a lamp post. A guy was stabbed to death outside her brother's house as he slept in the cul-de-sac in his truck. Both brothers had attempted robberies in the last six months. One brother was hit twice (two weeks ago, the most recent). My g/f's sister in-law was tied up less than a year ago and choked with a cord, then ribs crushed and then the guy ransacked her house. Last week, in a botched home invasion, a friend of my g/f was shot dead, husband wounded in a robbery.

My brother is in Dubai after being in security detail in Iraq for 8 years. He still maintains that the war zone in Iraq was safer than being a cop in South Africa.

Every night, I now have a lock-down. I spent almost a quarter of a million on security upgrades after the shooting in May last year.

This is not a life. What happens when I get older and my reflexes fail and I can't defend myself?

And, yes... we live in "good" areas of Port Elizabeth, South Africa.

I don't care where you go, but you can't stay there. Seriously, leave as soon as you can because that is ridiculous in and of itself without things like this new law being piled on. I wish you luck.

[Deleted]

The negative effects of apartheid cannot be denied. You can't expect people to actually get wealthy when they don't have shit. An american wouldn't understand this. You are known to not give a shit about your own people. But if they want a healthy society, they should help get the black population on their feet. Doesn't mean that taking their land is a good idea tho x).

So instead they will tank their economy and bring everyone that could keep it afloat with them Zimbabwe style. 40% of the richest 10% in SA are black people and a large portion is pretty young aka they own or create companies, hence they need a stabile economy to thrive.

Nuking the economy will not bring that.

[Afrospinach]

I'm not giving up. I'm just not fighting a losing battle any more.

Yeah what I meant to say was sorry you feel like you have to move rather than give up though with your experiences I can understand. imo SA is still kind of a microclimate for it's violence and racial tensions though(zim not withstanding). In spite of statistics, in Zambia - I feel safe. Still have to deal with the theft of everything not nailed down though . It is great to be able to live in a country where you do not need an 8tf wall around your house. I hope you make it to NZ

[Deleted]

So instead they will tank their economy and bring everyone that could keep it afloat with them Zimbabwe style. 40% of the richest 10% in SA are black people and a large portion is pretty young aka they own or create companies, hence they need a stabile economy to thrive.

Nuking the economy will not bring that.

Im not in favor of this bill. In fact, i think it is disgusting. But to say that the black population should pull theirself up by their own bootstraps is another type of extreme. First they need to get rid of the ANC. Not because of any ideological reasons (altough those are poor aswell), just because they're corrupt and incompetent.

[Afrospinach]

First they need to get rid of the ANC. Not because of any ideological reasons (altough those are poor aswell), just because they're corrupt and incompetent.

The trouble is you have just also described anyone that might replace them.

[Deleted]

Am I missing something important that should make me think otherwise?

You miss the part which stipulates the prices. Fair prices. Means a ton of money. Means that people who buy land has to be effective in managing businesses. So there wont be so many problems as fear-mongers such as you wish behind your veiled threads.

[RickJamesLich]

The negative effects of apartheid cannot be denied. You can't expect people to actually get wealthy when they don't have shit. An american wouldn't understand this. You are known to not give a shit about your own people. But if they want a healthy society, they should help get the black population on their feet. Doesn't mean that taking their land is a good idea tho x).

So human right violations are permissible as long as they appear to counteract previous human rights violations?

[Deleted]

So human right violations are permissible as long as they appear to counteract previous human rights violations?

No because as i have said three times already, i do not not support the bill this thread is about.

[artemishunter1]

Well, let's be real here. The white South Africans don't really deserve to be there. The reason that most persons of European descent own land in South Africa is directly traceable to colonialism. The control of so much formerly black-dominated land by a white minority in Africa is on some level morally illegitimate.

Now, they can learn lessons from Mugabe's mistakes. Actually pay fair market price for the land and ensure that the black persons buying such land are capable of efficiently farming it.

My bottom line: South Africa was invaded by the Boers and the British. Legacies of their immoral colonialism and racism should be addressed.

Then should all blacks get kicked out of Europe because blacks were not original settlers of Europe? Another issue is Much of infrastructure was built by Whites for Whites, Should they burn South Africa before leaving? If so, then I genuinely agree, whites should leave South Africa. Right after kicking all blacks from Europe and Burning down South Africa.

[Deleted]

You miss the part which stipulates the prices. Fair prices. Means a ton of money. Means that people who buy land has to be effective in managing businesses. So there wont be so many problems as fear-mongers such as you wish behind your veiled threads.

So who makes that price: the seller or someone which interested to shoot a lower number?

[Deleted]

So who makes that price: the seller or someone which interested to shoot a lower number?

One effective way for the goverment is to use the property tax (I do not know if South Africa have it) Normaly the land owner have done everything in his power (somtime cheat) to underestimate the market value to pay less tax

Then the goverment shall buy the land they look at the recent years tax decleration. (the % is totaly fictitious by me) You did pay X in property tax last year and that is 1% of the market value, hence the goverment are very generous and pay 110X, hence 10% over the market value.

The owner have no choice but to accept the generous offer, or acknowledge that he has not been honest with his tax.

[Oktoberfest]

I wonder how many people here know anything about the White Genocide going on in South Africa since the 90s.

[THE Bigzoman]

Link to The Economist article.
Relevant snips:


The bolded requires an almost absurd naïveté to truly believe. Were the prices being received "fair market prices", there would be no need to force the hands of the possible sellers.

The bolded here seems pretty obvious. Expropriating land from people that have the expertise to farm it and transferring it to people as yet determined would almost certainly be a problematic disruption.

Much more is in the article. I find this troubling and see it as essentially a misguided effort at retributive justice rather than a serious policy aimed at improving the lives of South Africans.

Am I missing something important that should make me think otherwise?

Ding

Ding

Ding.


This is eminent domain on a wide scale. This policy is all kinds of fucked up. South Africa's economy had the most potential. This is kind of depressing to see.

[Deleted]

Im not in favor of this bill. In fact, i think it is disgusting. But to say that the black population should pull theirself up by their own bootstraps is another type of extreme. First they need to get rid of the ANC. Not because of any ideological reasons (altough those are poor aswell), just because they're corrupt and incompetent.

Yep, i agree with you.
Best way to help people to pull themselves up is to have some kind of safety net so that when they try and fail they are not doomed to live in absolute poverty.
Not saying they need to go full blown Scandinavia but atleast give people enough cover so that they take a shot at starting a business or educate themselves.
ANC got a full mandate to make change in both of the last elections, they could really reform and build a good lasting platform for the country but alas no.
Slowly turning the country more segregated isn't what it needs.

[Sforza]

I wonder how many people here know anything about the White Genocide going on in South Africa since the 90s.

I know. Plaas Moorde.

[THE Bigzoman]

You miss the part which stipulates the prices. Fair prices. Means a ton of money. Means that people who buy land has to be effective in managing businesses. So there wont be so many problems as fear-mongers such as you wish behind your veiled threads.

You're not effective in managing land just because you have the resources to buy it.

It just means you can afford it.

There's literally nothing rationalizing this from an economic standpoint. A government getting in a pissing match with private property is a good way to fuck up any prospects for economic growth.

This isn't right wing talk, this is economists in unison

- - - Updated - - -

The negative effects of apartheid cannot be denied. You can't expect people to actually get wealthy when they don't have shit. An american wouldn't understand this. You are known to not give a shit about your own people. But if they want a healthy society, they should help get the black population on their feet. Doesn't mean that taking their land is a good idea tho x).

If you want a healthy society, you might want to worry about using resources more productively and efficiently before spouting the equality/restorative bullshit.

[ati87]

This may not be the perfect solution but can anybody say what the perfect solution would be?

The fact that back in the day (not that long ago tbh) you had a group of Europeans that took whatever they wanted (does anybody see a pattern?) in a foreign country and benefit today of that theft is just morally wrong.

When a person has illegal money and uses that money to become wealthy we still take away the ''legal'' money because the original source is from ill gotten gains, only difference now is technically the scale of which this happened.

Does it suck? yes but then come up with a better solution.