Getting rid of Heirlooms?

[Perkunas]

You're about 25% off. Single digit.

If the population of North American WoW players is around a million(as most estimates conclude) and the interest in a classic realm is around 250k I'd say I'm off by about 5%.

[Jerichofr]

There are two schools of thought at work here:

I wish to play how I want. These players are arguing that personal responsibility and freedom of choice are paramount, and that there exist means of engaging with the community to create the experience the OP wants (leveling without Heirloom items to enjoy a more immersive quest and dungeon experience). Many of these players, though I won't posit whether they're a majority or just a niche aspect of this demographic, have characters they leveled without heirlooms to take their time and enjoy the storylines (like myself) while others they've leveled with heirlooms to get it over asap.

I want everyone to play how I want. These players want a slower leveling experience where gear from quests and dungeons matters to themselves, but they want to enforce this playstyle on the entire playerbase.

I'll be honest here, that second school of thought is cancerous to the MMO genre, far moreso than anything the disgruntled, self-appointed "old guard" wish to blame for the game's current state. What we have today is the culmination of a decade's worth of players demanding everyone else be forced to play their way, rather than championing depth and breadth of choice and acknowledging that it isn't Blizzard's job to save players from themselves.

This is exactly correct. Like you, I'm in the first group. I level my first character in each expansion level without any bonuses to experience the full story and enjoy the experience. After that, I want the leveling to be as fast as possible because I don't want to slog through it on each character after the first (and am not paying $60 to boost each character.)

It's all these people that want to remove choice and make EVERYONE play the "old-school" way that irritate me. Been there for 2 decades, done that for 2 decades, got the T-Shirt. Never again.

- - - Updated - - -

If the population of North American WoW players is around a million(as most estimates conclude) and the interest in a classic realm is around 250k I'd say I'm off by about 5%.

250k WORLDWIDE. (Wasn't just a NA petition.) You're way off.

[Perkunas]

250k WORLDWIDE. (Wasn't just a NA petition.) You're way off.

I never said otherwise. I was comparing the amount of people interested in classic to the size of the current North American population of subscribers.

*Also I never asked to remove heirlooms only that they bake the xp into the characters if you enable it. I'm guilty of using heirlooms. I've got probably a couple hundred thousand worth of gold in my heirloom collection.

[murdochav]

You quoted my entire statement that mentions Project 60, an entire community dedicated to playing the game in a specific way to bring back the challenge. Yes, you're tying one hand behind your back, which is no different than asking Blizzard to tie your hand behind your back for you. If you're playing with random stranger who isn't handicapping themselves, then you will feel gimped. Instead, you could find a group who play the game the same way to bring back a sense of challenge and community. It exists, and it's exactly what you're asking for. It's self-imposed and self-enforced pristine gameplay all within one community.

The point of having a pristine server is the same reason we have, say, RP servers. You can RP on any server, but having dedicated servers for people interested in that style of play to congregate helps form communities of people interested in that scene. Just as the RP community would be much weaker if there were no RP servers, it is hard for large groups of players to form "pristine"-style communities without servers which enforce those rules. There's nothing wrong with players self-enforcing these rules, it would just provide a nicer platform for them to play this way if there were servers dedicated to this sort of thing.

[Dormie]

Then they can use heirlooms if that is what they want. But if they don't want that, then don't use them. Once again, this is just a generic excuse that doesn't make sense. Do they want to play to their full potential or do they want to deliberately ignore experience boosts to avoid playing to their full potential? Which is it? If they want a 'journey' yet also want to just equip whatever gear is BiS so that they can deal maximum damage in order to level more quickly, then sorry but that is THEM contradicting THEMSELVES.

If cheats were usable, they would use them, because that would be playing to their full potential. It makes perfect sense you just don't seem to get it. People will use the tools available. Heirlooms make all other gear irrelevant.

[Perkunas]

If cheats were usable, they would use them, because that would be playing to their full potential. It makes perfect sense you just don't seem to get it. People will use the tools available. Heirlooms make all other gear irrelevant.

The point is this fight is already over. Retail has lost the battle to convenience. Many people are happy and I'm glad they enjoy it, but I'm not and I know that there are a couple hundred thousand vets like myself who want to be thrown a bone. Legacy realms are the only hope we have at the moment.

[Serissa]

this is such a ignorant point to bring to a debate. the OP is trying to have a conversation on a possibility of a better heirloom system. this comment of "don't like them, don't use them" is extremely ignorant. You could literally say that about any topic and still be just as ignorant as you are now. I am not calling you out specifically but it seems a lot of people have this flawed view

But what about your "I don't like it - remove it" ignorant opinion?

[Mad_Murdock]

If cheats were usable, they would use them, because that would be playing to their full potential. It makes perfect sense you just don't seem to get it. People will use the tools available. Heirlooms make all other gear irrelevant.

And why is that a bad thing? Who cares if you can't use some the Axe that dropped in Shadow Fang Keep, that would be replaced once you reach Stockades? Is the constant gear swapping between dungeons really that important to you?

I myself view leveling as a pointless chore. I leveled 7 toons before heirlooms existed (in TBC), So I served my time leveling the "cool, old school way" It was never really that cool. Thanks to Heirlooms and the elixirs of XP I've leveled 12 more toons since then. Complaining about heirlooms is about like complaining that people don't write letters anymore, they just call whoever on their cellphones or send an E-mail. Do you want to bring back mailing letters as your form of communication as well? Times have changed, keep up.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

heirlooms changed.

keep the xp buff

put the stats inline with that level's green gear.

makes collecting certain blue gear worth it (items that last more than 3 levels)

imo if you get a gnarly xp boost you shouldnt get OP stats too

[Cwimge]

Remember ages back when a blue said that harder content doesn't make the playerbase rise to the challenge?

Altering looms will be like that, more tedious, worthless and annoying levelling won't make people appreciate the "journey" again. It will drive people who might of rolled a new alt to stop playing instead

[Dormie]

And why is that a bad thing? Who cares if you can't use some the Axe that dropped in Shadow Fang Keep, that would be replaced once you reach Stockades? Is the constant gear swapping between dungeons really that important to you?

I myself view leveling as a pointless chore. I leveled 7 toons before heirlooms existed (in TBC), So I served my time leveling the "cool, old school way" It was never really that cool. Thanks to Heirlooms and the elixirs of XP I've leveled 12 more toons since then. Complaining about heirlooms is about like complaining that people don't write letters anymore, they just call whoever on their cellphones or send an E-mail. Do you want to bring back mailing letters as your form of communication as well? Times have changed, keep up.

lol your whole premise is ridiculous. Might as well remove leveling altogether if you really feel that way. Some people like playing an RPG.

[Perkunas]

Some people like playing an RPG.

Apparently not the majority of people who play retail...

[tj119]

I hate heirlooms, any of the worst players can have full heirlooms and solo any current 5man at their level. But it's not possible or a good idea at this point.

[ComputerNerd]

You should work for blizzard. They use the same comment to shut down any discussion.

Yet that is the point nobody can legitimately argue with.
This has consistently been about the effect they have your experience, and that your experience is reason to remove or alter them for everyone else instead.
That improving your experience should come at the cost of negatively impacting everyone else who does use them for those reasons.
That is hugely arrogant.

This is entirely about improving the experience for a minority at the cost of the majority.

I hate heirlooms, any of the worst players can have full heirlooms and solo any current 5man at their level. But it's not possible or a good idea at this point.

They are not always better than other gear from the dungeons.
There are often drops which are better than the heirloom at that level.
So you could potentially gear up similarly just in dungeon drops, and have the same issue.
Heirlooms are not solely the cause of that, therefore that is another poor excuse.

I am not in favour of the impact this rush mentality has on the levelling experience, this drive for efficiency no matter the consequences.
But I can still see that heirlooms are not the sole cause of that, and nor is removing or nerfing them some magical solution.

[Deleted]

There are two schools of thought at work here:

I wish to play how I want. These players are arguing that personal responsibility and freedom of choice are paramount, and that there exist means of engaging with the community to create the experience the OP wants (leveling without Heirloom items to enjoy a more immersive quest and dungeon experience). Many of these players, though I won't posit whether they're a majority or just a niche aspect of this demographic, have characters they leveled without heirlooms to take their time and enjoy the storylines (like myself) while others they've leveled with heirlooms to get it over asap.

I want everyone to play how I want. These players want a slower leveling experience where gear from quests and dungeons matters to themselves, but they want to enforce this playstyle on the entire playerbase.

I'll be honest here, that second school of thought is cancerous to the MMO genre, far moreso than anything the disgruntled, self-appointed "old guard" wish to blame for the game's current state. What we have today is the culmination of a decade's worth of players demanding everyone else be forced to play their way, rather than championing depth and breadth of choice and acknowledging that it isn't Blizzard's job to save players from themselves.

Well this is correct.We even have prove (Warlords of Draenor) where blizzard cut off the entire expansion to please few persons who do not like the big numbers.Not only that but we will suffer in Legion for the same reason too(not by lack of content but by complete lack of power increase when you swap items with 10-15 Ilvs difference)

[endersblade]

I spent far, far too much time, effort and gold getting the heirlooms I have now. You can take them over my dead fucking body.

As far as BoAs making leveling drops pointless, I beg to differ. Not everyone has BoAs, not everyone has a full set of BoAs, which means people with BoAs will typically pass on gear and someone else who can actually use it can win it.

I mean, in actuality people in BoAs in dungeons are usually asshats and roll need on everything anyway, but the theory is sound.

[FuxieDK]

Remove most heirlooms, refund the gold, seals, honor, or whatever they spent on it, and add a gold-purchasable flask on the AH that can be bought and sold like the token: with the same exp bonus as a full set of heirlooms that lasts until you reach max level.

What a moronic idea..

I use heirlooms, because I don't want to be bothered by gear, while I level up.. I don't care about the XP bonus (it's nice, but I wouldn't care, if it was removed), but I crave the possibility of not having to think about gear until 60/90/100...

Removing all kinds of XP bonus (elixir, RaF, heirloom bonus, rested) would be much more resonable to do...

[Zephre]

I feel heirlooms should be removed, simply turn them into a passive exp buff applied account wise to characters 100 and below.

I can't see them going anywhere though the damage has already been done.

[MasterHamster]

There are two schools of thought at work here:

I wish to play how I want. These players are arguing that personal responsibility and freedom of choice are paramount, and that there exist means of engaging with the community to create the experience the OP wants (leveling without Heirloom items to enjoy a more immersive quest and dungeon experience). Many of these players, though I won't posit whether they're a majority or just a niche aspect of this demographic, have characters they leveled without heirlooms to take their time and enjoy the storylines (like myself) while others they've leveled with heirlooms to get it over asap.

I want everyone to play how I want. These players want a slower leveling experience where gear from quests and dungeons matters to themselves, but they want to enforce this playstyle on the entire playerbase.

I'll be honest here, that second school of thought is cancerous to the MMO genre, far moreso than anything the disgruntled, self-appointed "old guard" wish to blame for the game's current state. What we have today is the culmination of a decade's worth of players demanding everyone else be forced to play their way, rather than championing depth and breadth of choice and acknowledging that it isn't Blizzard's job to save players from themselves.

The second group exists because they understand players can't be the ones to decide how powerful they are in an online MMO, to the point where they make their gameplay a worse experience.

Asking people to unequip powerful gear to avoid the insanely dull leveling experience of oneshotting everything and having no use for anything but your main damage abilities doesn't. work.

We don't need heirlooms anymore. The base exp gain/character power relative to leveling zones is insane regardless.


Wanting rules to affect everyone fairly in a game is hardly cancerous. This is not a sandbox game

[Kataroku]

This thread is like a mirror image of the flying / no-flying debate lol...

"If you don't like them, don't use them!"
"Mah immershion! New players can't make friends while leveling!"