BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Kallisto]

I find this idea particularly amusing from EU supporters. When was the last time the EU's own accountants signed off on the books :P ? Britain's political culture (especially at the national level) is far more accountable etc than those of many EU member states, and the EU itself - and has a much longer history of holding those politicians to account, to boot.

EU accounts get signed off every year. The whole it's never done is a gigantic pile of bullshit tbh.

Also their signed off accounts are better than the UKs own.

https://fullfact.org/europe/has-eu-b...past-18-years/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36276175

[Deleted]

just to add a piccie i saw on business insider. a graph of all the various brexit polls and how they've tracked.

Leave is gaining steam.

They said the same thing about the Scottish Independence Referendum, which was lost by a large margin (larger than even in the previous one).

Referendums always boil down to risk of change, something humans hate. So that,

1. If the side proposing change has nothing provably better OR nothing about the status quo that personally adversely affects individuals in their daily lives, then nothing changes
2. Status quo votes always come out the most on polling day, including people who claimed to be undecided.

So, even if you knew nothing about the specific referendum issue, you can all but guarantee the result.

Excluding fraud, there is only ever one exception to this strong guideline: when voter turnout is unusually low or if the population is small (making other influences much more important).

[Kallisto]

Problem is the low turnout is going to hurt the remain campaign. Many old people long for the days of when Britain was all white, 1950s-70s where Britain was closer to the centre of the world. Enough so that they felt Britain still was. Problem is that memory is partly a lie and also the truths were based of the fact we were still gaining wealth from parts of the Empire that now doesn't exist.

[Deleted]

Ok time to take the tinfoil hat off and come out from under the desk. No everything is not a conspiracy. There are very few true conspiracies out there. I for one have seen how it works. There's no grand global conspiracy to put down the common man. To believe so just asinine.

There's not enough tinfoil when the stakes are this high.

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You must be very young as to not remember the Tatcher days...

You think we are self sufficient in the UK and not require importing no food items? And you think we are going to improve food from China?

All supermarket bosses have spoken and have been quite clear. Yet no? You think it was all a smoke screen?

People with interests that might be directly against the common man have spoken?

Our food comes from all over the place.

[Mayhem]

Certainly to me that says that EFTA membership will basically mean free trade in at least several areas of the economy with the EU (eg not agriculture or services).

Yeah, and what makes you think that the EU will just be fine with it? I mean, we leave you, we hurt the Union, but we still want to trade with you except for the parts that hurt us a bit. London won´t be that important anymore since it won´t remain the EU financial hub. So what´s the leverage the UK has?

[Slant]

Yeah, and what makes you think that the EU will just be fine with it? I mean, we leave you, we hurt the Union, but we still want to trade with you except for the parts that hurt us a bit. London won´t be that important anymore since it won´t remain the EU financial hub. So what´s the leverage the UK has?

It's the UK, man. That's all the leverage they need.

[Mayhem]

It's the UK, man. That's all the leverage they need.

Oh, you´re right, i forgot.

[caervek]

Well when Britain leaves have you decided how Europe will make up the loss of 32000 million British Euros every five years?

You mean every ten years, you're looking at the gross amount we pay in before the amount we take out it deducted. We pay a net of €3.5 billion a year to the EU.

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We cannot control immigration as part of the EU

We can control (to an extent) non-EU immigration, which is our biggest immigration issue ATM what with all the refugees/etc.

a small island nation with a housing crisis cannot continue to take in over 300,000 people per year

In 2015 net migration from the EU to the UK was 184,000, non-EU net migration was 188,000 a similar level compared with the previous year (194,000). EU membership doesn't appear to affect our immigration.

This figure is set to increase with Turkey's admission to the EU and is unsustainable.

Which is unlikely to happen in our lifetime, the UK would veto it (unless we leave ofc).

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if you dnt want people to build all the time vote ukip

You do realise that voting for UKIP in 2020 does nothing but hurt the Tories chances of winning right? A vote for UKIP in 2020 is a vote for Jeremy Corbyn just like it was a vote for Ed Miliband in 2015.

[Raldazzar]

London won´t be that important anymore since it won´t remain the EU financial hub.

London is the financial hub of the world.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...al-centre.html

http://www.kennedypearce.com/worlds-financial-capital/

and before you say it, it has nothing to DO with us being in the EU. London was a powerhouse throughout the development of the entire world we know and live in today. and nothing has changed. your bias is showing.

[Mayhem]

and before you say it, it has nothing to DO with us being in the EU. London was a powerhouse throughout the development of the entire world we know and live in today. and nothing has changed.

Hmm the IMF seems to disagree, but what do they know, right?

http://fortune.com/2016/05/13/imf-br...financial-hub/

your bias is showing.

Of course it is, i said something against the UK, therefore i´m biased.

[caervek]

and vote leave cos if we stay we have open borders to mass immigration and guiess where there coming to the UK for free money off the state

Okay, firstly, most EU migrants go to countries with similar languages/cultures not the UK, and they don't claim free money they work for it, you seem to be thinking of illegal immigrants from Africa and the middle east, those places are not in the EU.

and then wee will have to house all these illegal immigrants

The reason they are called illegal is because they don't go through the proper channels, being out off the EU would make illegal immigration worse.

they came to uk where they put migrants first and the british person second

like i said im voting UKIP and leaving does it really matter how i came to choose my decision

Well apparently we can rule out looking at the facts lol.

the thing is everything out there IS a consipracy

"Better jump from the tower right now, I will surely kill me but then the tower might mysteriously collapse anyway."

Aaaand the thread arrives at 9/11 XD

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London is the financial hub of the world.

London is the financial hub of the world because it's the financial hub of the EU. If there was no EU then New York would be the world's financial hub, if the UK had never joined the EU then it would probably be Stockholm.

[ati87]

Anybody making a decision to leave the EU because of a potential Turkey joining the EU should really stop being a racist and learn grow up.

If their are legitimate reasons for you not wanting turkey is one thing but if you look at countries that can almost be seen as a 3e world country in some aspects I wonder where the whole majority of the anti enlargement crowd was back then (it was allot smaller). I often see reasons like ''culture'' being used which isn't a legitimate reason to deny turkey EU accession because it's vague as shit.

It's like arguing that a country like Greece has the same values as Germany? Judging by past discussion I'm not sure that anybody would dare to claim that.

The EU needs good partners and if your decision to stay in the EU is directly linked to Turkey so you can veto it then I would say ''get the fuck out'' because we don't need member's like that. We don't need member's that are going to threaten us with this kind of BS every decade or so the evil Muslims may join and destroy our way of life

[Noradin]

Aaaand the thread arrives at 9/11 XD

Ups sorry, that one slipped by me, it is an artifact of recasting a foreign idiom into english.
It was not my intend to allude to any events in the real world.

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Anybody making a decision to leave the EU because of a potential Turkey joining the EU should really stop being a racist and learn grow up.

Especially since it is contraproductive in this case.

[dribbles]

Anybody making a decision to leave the EU because of a potential Turkey joining the EU should really stop being a racist and learn grow up.

The EU needs good partners and if your decision to stay in the EU is directly linked to Turkey so you can veto it then I would say ''get the fuck out'' because we don't need member's like that. We don't need member's that are going to threaten us with this kind of BS every decade or so the evil Muslims may join and destroy our way of life

Maybe you should ask the raped women of Cologne about that, but then they won't be because the Germans won't be allowed a referendum. When are 72 million Turks getting visa free travel across the EU, a few weeks isn't it?

You can thank this rotter in part for that.

[Raldazzar]

London is the financial hub of the world because it's the financial hub of the EU. If there was no EU then New York would be the world's financial hub, if the UK had never joined the EU then it would probably be Stockholm.

Cute theory, any proof? no. London was a hub before the EU. being a member has not changed it's status in the financial markets.

Stockholm isn't even top 10.

not to mention half the bodies/experts claiming brexit is bad/sky is falling are funded BY the EU

[Noradin]

Maybe you should ask the raped women of Cologne about that, but then they won't be because the Germans won't be allowed a referendum. When are 72 million Turks getting visa free travel across the EU, a few weeks isn't it?

Why would they need an referendum? To have the pretense of democracy?
They are a democratic country. There is a reason why not everything is always up to a popularity vote: Because it does not work.

And who is saying the Turkey will get visa free travel in a few weeks? I do not see them fulfilling the prerequisites in the next few decades let alone in weeks.

[dribbles]

And who is saying the Turkey will get visa free travel in a few weeks? I do not see them fulfilling the prerequisites in the next few decades let alone in weeks.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu...-idUSKCN0YT0SR

Sure I read somewhere else it will be granted the day after the British referendum on June 24th

[Noradin]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu...-idUSKCN0YT0SR

Sure I read somewhere else it will be granted the day after the British referendum on June 24th

Well, yes, if "there is no deal about visa free travels". There is a deal, they can get their visa free travel as soon as the meet the prerequisites--which is not likely to happen anytime soon. That is what I said in my last post, too.

But if you have a credible source that gives a specific date when that will happen, sure, I'd love to see it.
"The day after the British referendum on June 24th" sounds a bit suspicious, thought, like something the leave campain would make up.

[ati87]

Maybe you should ask the raped women of Cologne about that, but then they won't be because the Germans won't be allowed a referendum. When are 72 million Turks getting visa free travel across the EU, a few weeks isn't it?

You can thank this rotter in part for that.

How about I ask the opinions of child molesters from Belgium or from any other EU country instead? And if you want to protect your so called judeo christian Heritage (lets ignore the prosecution of the Jews by Christians for a moment) we can also maybe ask the catholic church that has been molesting kids for centuries probably but we are hearing about it just now about what they feel about Turkey joining the EU.

So what do you expect? That 72M will all leave turkey next week and start fucking your women?

So what do refugees have to do with Turkey and the visa free travel? Visa Free doesn't mean you don't have to show your passport when entering that country, it just means you don't have to go threw the ridiculous paperwork when travelling/visiting another country.


Again if your decision to stay in the EU (this is for any country) is to spite Turkey then my argument doesn't change and I would still stay GTFO because we don't need a country like that. If any historical European country wants to join the EU (because historically Turkey is part of Europe) and they meet the needed recruitments then the EU needs to respect their own policy that and be serious about the joining processes.

[caervek]

London was a hub before the EU. being a member has not changed it's status in the financial markets.

Yes it has, it allowed it to overtake NY and become the global hub.

Stockholm isn't even top 10.

Back when London overtook NY it was 5th. If the UK had never joined the EU then Stockholm would have become the financial centre of the EU and it would have been the one to topple NY.