debt: It’s not nearly as bad as everyone says it is

[chazus]

I'm not understanding. How can they continue coming after you for debt, even after bankruptcy? To The best of my knowledge, the only debts which are not dischargeable are student loans, child support and back taxes.

I honestly want to know, so please answer.

Debts are often sold to other companies to collect. Even after declaring bankruptcy, those bonds still exist, and third party companies will continue to hound you. Again, this isn't everyone, but it's still millions of people.

The problem is, there's no agency or administration to handle things like that, so there's nobody to stop them. It's the same people that collect debts on deceased. Sometimes they even collect debt that has been 'closed' or worse, paid! Yep. You paid off your debt, but it got sold to someone else somewhere in there and poor paperwork allows them to legally collect and garnish wages on something you paid.

Or worse, they just have the wrong info, and can legally collect on you, even if you didn't have the debt.

[Garnier Fructis]

Just get 1-2 credit cards and pay them off in full each month.

Yeah this. When I said I planned to stay debt free, I didn't mean I wouldn't work on my credit score. IMO, paying it completely every month isn't really 'in debt.'

[Daerio]

Most of that debt isn't held by people.

Who's it held by, aliens? Mother Gaia?

It's held by groups of people which is still people.

[Cricket22]

Debts are often sold to other companies to collect. Even after declaring bankruptcy, those bonds still exist, and third party companies will continue to hound you. Again, this isn't everyone, but it's still millions of people.

The problem is, there's no agency or administration to handle things like that, so there's nobody to stop them. It's the same people that collect debts on deceased. Sometimes they even collect debt that has been 'closed' or worse, paid! Yep. You paid off your debt, but it got sold to someone else somewhere in there and poor paperwork allows them to legally collect and garnish wages on something you paid.

Or worse, they just have the wrong info, and can legally collect on you, even if you didn't have the debt.

Ok, got cha.

Of course, it's not really legal and if it continues, you can take them to court, and win. If the amount is only a couple thousand, you can take them to small claims court yourself, as I did to AT&T, for continuing to sell a cell phone bill I had already successfully disputed. I won a judgement against them for $800, especially since they didn't even show up in court, and I collected on that judgement too.

Kind if hard to do though I imagine if you're deceased...

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

debt to the average person means youre on a gerbil wheel.

keep paying while the interest keeps racking up. before you know it youve paid 3 times what the good / service was worth. Nah not that bad....................................................................................... .......................................................................................... ..................

[Stormspark]

I plan on keeping my debt low/nonexistent until/if I find out my end is near. Then I don't care. I hope people say of me when I die "boy that guy sure owed me a lot of money".

Right now I have no debt except for my car payment.

[TirielWoW]

Who's it held by, aliens? Mother Gaia?

It's held by groups of people which is still people.

It's held by corporations, who are not people.

[chazus]

Of course, it's not really legal and if it continues, you can take them to court, and win.

It's actually surprisingly legal, for the most part, and costs thousands to try and get them to back off. They can even sue and garnish wages, because technically they're on the legal 'right' side, even if what they do is shady or illegal. It's like a guy showing up at your door with a police uniform, and saying "Im the police, let me in" and you say no.. He then calls the cops, cops show up, and go "You're under arrest for resisting police" even though the guy wasn't actually an officer.

These companies are being given legal power to sue, garnish, and otherwise harass you, without any backing.

[Aoyi]

Outside my mortgage I'm about to be debt free.

Not completely on topic but I'm happy as fuck about it. So I decided to comment. Lol.

Congrats! I'm almost to that point myself. We have about 2 years left on my wife's student loan payments and then we'll be like you

[Sunseeker]

Debt is good if the reason you incurred debt was an investment thats likely to return. A mortgage, for example, usually represents huge savings on equivalent rent. A business going into debt to buy equipment thats likely to return on investment is worth going into debt over. Of course, not all investments are good investments. An engineering degree is generally a good investment. A Sociology degree is generally not a good investment.

Debt is bad when it pays for consumption. For example, when someone charges their groceries on a credit card that they intend to just roll over each month, when someone finances a luxury car or puts a vacation on a credit card.

If you can't afford it now, why should you be able to afford it later? If you can't effectively answer that question, you shouldn't be spending the money. It applies to individuals as well as governments.

Basically, this.

But I'd add that paying something like a vacation off over time is generally more effective than saving up for it. There are also non-monetary ends to these equations, such as evaluating if the vacation will reduce your stress to potentially improve performance in the workplace in the future. It's better to take on some debt and take time off, than to burn out and lose all income.

[Lothaeryn]

greece pay debnts

fucking lol'd, nice reference

As for the OP, debt is just another term to say credit, if for any reason you take out a loan you should have a plan that shows exactly how long it will take for you to get out of it, and should add another 2 months (even up to a year) to it due to setbacks. The rates can fluctuate, you should only take a loan if you know you will have guaranteed income within a finite time frame in which to pay it back, or you can definitely forget being ever able to pay it back in the future.

[Daerio]

It's held by corporations, who are not people.

Talk to SCOTUS if you're having a problem with the vernacular, I'm not getting paid to educate.

[Cricket22]

It's actually surprisingly legal, for the most part, and costs thousands to try and get them to back off. They can even sue and garnish wages, because technically they're on the legal 'right' side, even if what they do is shady or illegal. It's like a guy showing up at your door with a police uniform, and saying "Im the police, let me in" and you say no.. He then calls the cops, cops show up, and go "You're under arrest for resisting police" even though the guy wasn't actually an officer.

These companies are being given legal power to sue, garnish, and otherwise harass you, without any backing.

Well, they can't really do it legally, providing you take the appropriate measures provided by the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, meaning that they are required to notify you of their intent to collect on a debt, and then give you 30 days to file a written dispute --which you need to mail to them via registered letter. Providing you do that, they are then required to follow the proper steps to validate the debt, and if they don't, and just try to grab your money, then, not only can you sue them, but there are attorneys who will take your case on a contingency basis-- because a creditor who violates the FDCPA is required to pay the prevailing attorney's legal fees.

The problem is actually that most people aren't familiar with the FDCPA, and don't know that they are required to immediately dispute the debt, in writing, in order to stop the collections. If you don't mail in a written dispute, then after 30 days, they can start collection procedures.

Once collections have started, then getting it to stop can be difficult, and yes, you may need a lawyer. So it's best to get on it immediately.


Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Q & A

https://www.fair-debt-collection.com...estions.html#6

Btw; if you have been harassed by a collection Agency who has violated this Act, the above link has a list of attorneys who, providing you have a decent, provable case, will take it on contingency basis--meaning you pay nothing. If they win, their fees will be paid by the collection agency found in violation of the Act.

In addition, if you win, you should be able to collect $1,000 in damages as well.

[Wulfey]

Yes this. Alexander Hamilton was right and Thomas Jefferson was wrong. The national debt keeps savers invested in the continuance of the state, and uses the immense creditworthiness of the nation to pull prosperity from the future into today. The USA government can borrow and invest like no other debtor in the world, and can do so to all our benefits.

[TirielWoW]

Talk to SCOTUS if you're having a problem with the vernacular, I'm not getting paid to educate.

They're still not people, SCOTUS or not. Debt trading is a huge industry. I very much doubt that many individuals own large amounts of debt.

[Daerio]

They're still not people, SCOTUS or not. Debt trading is a huge industry. I very much doubt that many individuals own large amounts of debt.

I don't know why you're going on about this nonsense. Your point was (apparently) that individuals aren't benefiting from debt trading, because they're groups of people?

Funny how we write all these laws and pay ~9% of our average expenditures on something that is apparently disappearing into thin air. If it doesn't benefit people, why should we pay the big machine in the sky our gold to appease it?

[Kapadons]

Debts are often sold to other companies to collect. Even after declaring bankruptcy, those bonds still exist, and third party companies will continue to hound you. Again, this isn't everyone, but it's still millions of people.

The problem is, there's no agency or administration to handle things like that, so there's nobody to stop them. It's the same people that collect debts on deceased. Sometimes they even collect debt that has been 'closed' or worse, paid! Yep. You paid off your debt, but it got sold to someone else somewhere in there and poor paperwork allows them to legally collect and garnish wages on something you paid.

Or worse, they just have the wrong info, and can legally collect on you, even if you didn't have the debt.

I was under the impression that unsecured debts like credit cards and medical were just that. Unsecured. I didn't know they could garnish your wages? Do they have to do this through a court of law ? And why wouldn't a judge or mediator just say " it's unsecured" you dumb fucks shouldn't have loaned em the money.

Further more, there are several ways to get these companies to stop hounding you after you filed bankruptcy, mostly involving a lawyer. We had this issue after our bankruptcy, we would just refuse to answer any questions and refer them to the lawyer we filed bankruptcy with. After that it was all taken care of. Maybe we just got lucky.

And as someone said, a great tactic for dealing with medical debt is there own lack of cohesion. Basically ask them to prove the debt and that the bill is accurate. If it's the original debtor, they then have to spend time and resources proving the debt. which costs them money. Sometimes they will just remove the debt of its small enough. If they sold the debt to a creditor, they are basically fucked as they really have no way of proving the original debt nor the accuracy of the actual bill. A vast amount of medical bills contain billing errors. We did this with a hospital where we live. Wife went to ER, insurance paid its claim, we paid the copay and they "sent" is a bill for around $350. I say "sent" because we never got anything from original hospital. We got a letter from a creditor they sold the debt like 8 months later. They had already added it to credit report. After some legal advice we had to write a letter asking them to prove the debt or remove it from our credit report. About 3 weeks later it was removed.

[Cricket22]

I was under the impression that unsecured debts like credit cards and medical were just that. Unsecured. I didn't know they could garnish your wages? Do they have to do this through a court of law ? And why wouldn't a judge or mediator just say " it's unsecured" you dumb fucks shouldn't have loaned em the money.

If a loan is secured, for example, a car loan, then they can repossess the asset securing the loan -- yourcar, however if they then sell the car and don't get enough to pay off the loan, they can come after you for the balance.

If a loan is unsecured, then yes, they can garnish your wages, and may even be able to take the money directly out of your bank account (if you have enough in there.).

Further more, there are several ways to get these companies to stop hounding you after you filed bankruptcy, mostly involving a lawyer. We had this issue after our bankruptcy, we would just refuse to answer any questions and refer them to the lawyer we filed bankruptcy with. After that it was all taken care of. Maybe we just got lucky.

I believe that is part of the fair Debt Collection Practices Act -- if you tell a debt collector you have a lawyer, they are required to direct all future inquiries to your attorney, and if they don't, your attorney can, and will, sue.

And as someone said, a great tactic for dealing with medical debt is there own lack of cohesion. Basically ask them to prove the debt and that the bill is accurate. If it's the original debtor, they then have to spend time and resources proving the debt. which costs them money. Sometimes they will just remove the debt of its small enough. If they sold the debt to a creditor, they are basically fucked as they really have no way of proving the original debt nor the accuracy of the actual bill. A vast amount of medical bills contain billing errors. We did this with a hospital where we live. Wife went to ER, insurance paid its claim, we paid the copay and they "sent" is a bill for around $350. I say "sent" because we never got anything from original hospital. We got a letter from a creditor they sold the debt like 8 months later. They had already added it to credit report. After some legal advice we had to write a letter asking them to prove the debt or remove it from our credit report. About 3 weeks later it was removed.

It's also a great way to clean up your credit report and raise your score. Dispute every item, and make them prove all those late payments. If they can't within the time limit, they are required to remove the item.

I've done this a number of times for people, with varying results. Depends on the type of debt, and varies also by areas and states.

[Kapadons]

Seems Texas has some solid exempt laws stopping unsecured debtors from just taking all your shit. Homestead is exempt, 1 car per family member with a drivers license. Texas pretty much stops all wage garnishment except taxes and child support. Didn't bother to see how this lines up with federal exemptions.

Seems it would only be advantageous for a unsecured debt company to obtain a judgement on large debts. Namely the legal fees involved on their part would have to be less than the actual debt.

[Cricket22]

Seems Texas has some solid exempt laws stopping unsecured debtors from just taking all your shit. Homestead is exempt, 1 car per family member with a drivers license. Texas pretty much stops all wage garnishment except taxes and child support. Didn't bother to see how this lines up with federal exemptions.

Seems it would only be advantageous for a unsecured debt company to obtain a judgement on large debts. Namely the legal fees involved on their part would have to be less than the actual debt.

An unsecured creditor usually has to go to court first and get a judgement, but there are some exceptions to that. I believe student debt is one, as well as state/federal taxes, etc.