[LEGION] Brewmaster Discussion

[keqe]

Well the taunt on Niuzao can be turned off just like with Xuen so it will probably still function the same in raid content. Just a DPS CD.

But blizzard seemed to be quite keen on that philosophy that a "worse, but easy and passive" option is good to have. So assuming they keep that philosophy, RJW will be sustained DPS/AoE DPS, and Niuzao will be a burst DPS, but less over 3 minutes perhaps than what RJW gives. Special Delivery does less but doesn't need any sort of management.

But we'll see if they really keep that philosophy going.

[stross01]

That new artifact change is pretty immense. Puts it on par with Keg Smash in damage and 3 seconds of miss time is pretty close to 3 seconds of invulnerability. $

I didn't scroll down to the artifact changes, but holy shit those are good.

[Saiyoran]

Sad about the nerfs to GotOx healing traits but our artifact ability looks actually useful now so that's something.

Still waiting on the day they add an icd to Obstinate Determination though.

What do you guys think of the BoF/Dragonfire Brew/Adjunct Advantage changes?'

Is the Face Palm change a tooltip error?

[stross01]

Not very sad about that Orb change as a lot of it ended up as massive overhealing anyway. What does suck is that it greatly impacts the 35% cheese.

The BoF change makes me veiny. The stacking thing was kinda awful and the new BoF goes extremely well with the legendary chest.

It looks like they added a damage component to it.

[Ultramad]

Sad about the nerfs to GotOx healing traits but our artifact ability looks actually useful now so that's something.

Still waiting on the day they add an icd to Obstinate Determination though.

What do you guys think of the BoF/Dragonfire Brew/Adjunct Advantage changes?'

Is the Face Palm change a tooltip error?

Realistically it's a survivability nerf betwen the Adjunct Advantage/DBF changes. There is no longer a ramp-up time for the damage reduction on BoF so that's okay. Looking at BoF's tooltip, looks like it has more up-front damage(200% AP) than DoT damage(120%) but adding in 3 levels of AA and you're at 210% AP. So it's a pretty significant damage increase in that manner.

I'm overall not a fan of the changes, just because it seems like things got tuned down, but I'll accept it. BoF should be particularly quite a bit stronger now with Dragonfire Brew and Adjunct Advantage. And Exploding Keg seems like a nice buff. I don't expect the damage to stay like that, but sure, why not?

If they were going to add an ICD to Obstinant Determination it's got to be something short, I hope. It's not like it's Ardent Defender or old school Will of the Necropolis.

[Inuyaki]

ok, so they nerfed us?
Now please buff us or do we really have to wait for the 1st or 2nd week on live for that?

[Xiaojin]

The changes to BoF looks nice. Nothing more I really want to say about that. ^^

Also, Face Palm was a needed nerf to it's defensive part. I guess once the tooltip has been parsed correctly it will come out as a chance for a damage increase + 1sec additional brew recharge. With the old values, at 4 levels of Face Palm (i.e., 3/3 in the trait + one relic to increase it by another level) and with the T19 4p bonus, Tiger Palm provided more brew recharge per energy than Keg Smash. Sure, that requires very specific gear and requires you to ignore a hard-hitting ability completely (KS) but it still didn't sound right to me that this was possible. With the changes to Face Palm, you now need to be at level 6 in Face Palm before it starts to provide more brew than KS. That's a significant investment in terms of relics (if that's even possible, not sure about that) which probably deters people from trying that play style.

I'm not sure what to make of the changes to Gift of the Ox (I hate that part of BrM's toolkit anyway; hopefully I won't have to deal with that, talking to my raid leader about re-rolling for Legion ). From what I read about BrMs and GotO, they might really have needed a nerf. With an orb from Overflow that also procced Celestial Fortune you could get a lot of healing sometimes. But I think what people really would've wanted/needed would be a change that does not nerf the lower end of healing provided by the orbs (no procs of any kind) but rather limits the higher end (all procs that can affect the orbs at the same time).
So what I'm suggesting is that a trait like Overflow probably should be turned into the old Gifted Students: a flat, consistent healing bonus without a chance to create a super strong orb if you're lucky. Or maybe change Overflow to the old proc chance but reduce the healing bonus to 50% instead of 100%. That way you still have some RNG (to not make things feel too boring/the same all the time) but you don't rarely get a huge bonus but you often get a small bonus (= more consistent healing, if tuned properly both provide the same average healing).

[Deleted]

according to wowhead, ISB and PB no longer work as active mitigation. Does this mean we won't have any active mitigation at all or am i forgetting something?

[stross01]

according to wowhead, ISB and PB no longer work as active mitigation. Does this mean we won't have any active mitigation at all or am i forgetting something?

This is very interesting. They are both not "Active Mitigation" on beta right now.

All Active Mitigation is gone from death knight, except for their artifact ability.

All Active Mitigation is gone from druid, except for their artifact ability.

All Active Mitigation is gone from warrior.

All Active Mitigation is gone from demon hunter.

All Active Mitigation is gone from paladin, except for the artifact ability.

[keqe]

If that is part of them removing the idiotic AM checks, it is a good thing.

The BoF change is nice, but aiming it well becomes even more important now, as DfB was all around AoE but now BoF DoT itself has to be on the enemies for the DR to work.

Nice to have some thinking for using the ability, but I fear it might just be annoying with certain mob types or places.

[DisposableHero]

This is very interesting. They are both not "Active Mitigation" on beta right now.

All Active Mitigation is gone from death knight, except for their artifact ability.

All Active Mitigation is gone from druid, except for their artifact ability.

All Active Mitigation is gone from warrior.

All Active Mitigation is gone from demon hunter.

All Active Mitigation is gone from paladin, except for the artifact ability.

Here's hoping this means they plan to remove flat AM check mechanics too.

[Deleted]

If that is part of them removing the idiotic AM checks, it is a good thing.

The BoF change is nice, but aiming it well becomes even more important now, as DfB was all around AoE but now BoF DoT itself has to be on the enemies for the DR to work.

Nice to have some thinking for using the ability, but I fear it might just be annoying with certain mob types or places.

do the extra 2 fire breaths also apply a dot? from the tooltip it sounded like it was only 2 extra fire breaths which would be a pretty servery dmg nerf (ST and aoe)

[Julmara]

maybe the duble breath dot adds up

[stross01]

It shoots breath of fire like normal, but it then shoots two dragonfire brews after. Not a dot, just a dd.

[keqe]

It shoots breath of fire like normal, but it then shoots two dragonfire brews after. Not a dot, just a dd.

Yeah just tested it in beta. All of our golden traits seem quite disappointing now sadly. At least the Artifact ability got some love.

[Deleted]

At least the Artifact ability got some love.

But it's still a joke compared to all other tanks...

[stross01]

But it's still a joke compared to all other tanks...

I'd put Exploding Keg up there for one of the best abilities in the game now. 3 seconds of no autoattack damage for you or your other tank, or both, if you're near.

The new Adjunct Advantage is stronger than you give it credit for. With the only good legendary worn, you'll be taking at least 6% less damage at all times from everything.

Now that Dark Side of the Moon finally functions, taking 6-12% less of 1mil+ hits is pretty good.

I wish the +damage was +tanking, but it's a major improvement.

Edit: Also, I wouldn't get my hopes up about the active mitigation checks being gone. The checks are still very much around, the abilities only lost their category for unknown reasons.

[Tech614]

I'd put Exploding Keg up there for one of the best abilities in the game now. 3 seconds of no autoattack damage for you or your other tank, or both, if you're near.

Which sounds useful during an enrage dps check during progression but worthless otherwise. Auto attacks are never going to kill any tank.

Sounds like the ability was made for old challenge modes which are now gone because that sounds like the only area where it would have been constantly useful.

It was far better as a defensive when it was the flat 30% DR.

[stross01]

Which sounds useful during an enrage dps check during progression but worthless otherwise. Auto attacks are never going to kill any tank.

Sounds like the ability was made for old challenge modes which are now gone because that sounds like the only area where it would have been constantly useful.

It was far better as a defensive when it was the flat 30% DR.

Autos are most of the damage you're going to take now, but it also works on non-autoattacks. It also works on any player abilities in PVP. Being able to stop multiple millions of damage every 1 min and 15 seconds is pretty incredible in a raid setting. Making a rogue miss a 5cp Kidney shot is pretty incredible in a PVP setting. The uses are there and noticeable.

Also, it was 15% for 6 seconds, which isn't even remotely close to one missed hit, let alone three seconds of missed attacks.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, got an answer about the removal of "Active Mitigation".

[Deleted]

Which sounds useful during an enrage dps check during progression but worthless otherwise. Auto attacks are never going to kill any tank.

have you ever tanked mythic velhari, who 100 to 0 you in 2 or 3 auto attacks??