[Movie] Warcraft (June 2016)

[Deleted]

man it's not negativity it's realism or skeptical how you wish ))

Saying "it's telling" (which necessarily implies it was not good) is not realistic. I mean seriously - it was the second highest ever.

Why don't we wait first before spewing crap (which is what he's been doing all the time)?

[Aori]

Actuals are lower than initially estimated. Warcraft didn't beat FF7's midnight pre-sales opening record

https://twitter.com/ChinaBoxOffice/s...44014840107008

- - - Updated - - -



He saw the movie in camrip and claim a lot of things based on that. May not be against the rules, but it's bringing only useless negativity in the thread.

A whole 400k short of beating it. It was still a crazy showing for midnight.

[Zulkhan]

I think Orgrim will BECOME the Warchief by KILLING Gul'dan.

That's a rather poor idea IMO. It cuts way of the picture the weird dynamic between them which was rather interesting.

In our lore Orgrim submitted Gul'dan and would have totally killed him if it wasn't for the obvious necessity of his magic in order to counter the Alliance's wizards. I don't see why this couldn't happen in the movie universe. It would be interesting to see Orgrim lead the war as Gul'dan shows his "full support" while plotting his own betrayal.

Just look at Gul'dan in the movie... He can insta-kill groups of green orcs in a matter of seconds. My guess is that he just "burns the fel" inside them - and this kind of power makes it very unlikely that any of the green orcs would move against Gul'dan or even disobey him, despite someone else (cough, Orgrim, cough) being the Warchief. What I'm getting at is that if Orgrim was to become Warchief, Gul'dan still has this insane power that would allow him to force orcs into submission and have them "remove" Orgrim from power.

Not necessarily. From what I remember from the novelization, only 2-3 orcs made a move against Gul'dan and he killed them in a heart-beat. But they were still nothing compared to a whole Horde. I think Gul'dan killing those orcs in such manner triggered a "bystander effect" which made every other orc reluctant in making a move against him. But if you have Orgrim to serve as rebellious leadership figure, the orcs would have someone to follow to deal with Gul'dan.

What I'm getting at is that if Orgrim became Warchief, he most likely wouldn't have a huge group of brown orcs to protect him - and Gul'dan has the power to subdue all other orcs, so Orgrim would basically be alone vs the whole Horde/any number of Horde warriors that Gul'dan would force into following him. My guestion is, why would Gul'dan listen to Orgrim and not just get a bunch of Grunts and force them to kill Orgrim like at night or during a hunt or during a battle, when not a lot of orcs would be able to oppose Gul'dan (i.e. maybe he wouldn't be able to take them all)? It wouldn't make any sense.

As I said, all the orcs need is a leader. Right now Gul'dan is ruling the Horde by fear, which means his strength as a leader is dwindling. If Orgrim successfully leads a rebellion and subdue Gul'dan, the Horde would totally follow the orc who dethroned the tyrant and Gul'dan would have no choices but follow Orgrim's orders if he doesn't want to be executed for good, since he has surely no means to deal alone with a whole orcish Horde.

Also, just look at it - basically, for all we know, Orgrim is the only brown orc left = he is the only one that most likely wouldn't be "burned" by Gul'dan and could "save the Horde" from him. And seeing how Gul'dan was in the movie - the orcs value honor, Gul'dan doesn't, so there's a strong chance that eventually he'd do something that would piss off some powerful orcs, hell, maybe even some of the Chieftains and have them plot to remove him from power? And since Gul'dan has this fel magic burn thing going on, guess who they might want to turn to for help?

Chances are this is what's meant to happen. Again, from what I got Gul'dan will have only fear as tool to keep in check the Horde, because the way he dealt with Durotan made him lose all the respect and trust the orcs had for him.

Oh, I don't know... The only brown orc left as far as we know who conveniently enough is a decent fighter and could defeat Gul'dan, already got orcs to support him during the movie (when Durotan died) and guess what - who also has a huge personal "hammer to grind" with Gul'dan for killing his best friend by cheating in a Mak'gora and esentially slaughtering his clan?

In the novels, Orgrim was equally pissed for Gul'dan's role in Durotan's death and the first thing he desired to do as he looked at the warlock was smashing his head with his hammer. The only reason he didn't do that is because, for Orgrim, the Horde mattered more than his personal feelings and the Horde needed Gul'dan's magic to win the war.

The other, the one I'd find more entertaining, is that Gul'dan would screw something up and have some of the Chieftans (cough, Grommash, cough) plot against him - i.e. getting Orgrim to kill Gul'dan, delivering Gul'dan into his hands and then accepting that since Orgrim has killed Gul'dan (who might as well be the Warchief now), the leadership of the Horde should be passed to him.

This could pretty much happen but there's hardly no need for Gul'dan to do much more than he already did, as he's barely holding the Horde by the end of the movie. And in such scenario, there's still no need to effectively kill Gul'dan (yet). In fact, the scenario you propose is very much similar to the one shown in the actual lore, except Orgrim actually spares Gul'dan.

In the end, I stay by what I said initially. I think the perfect moment for Orgrim to exacts vengeance against Gul'dan is when the latter will perform his ultimate betrayal against the Horde while attempting to claim the power of a God (running through the Tomb of Sargeras or some other location) where Orgrim will reach him and deal with him in an ultimate showdown, where he finally punishes the warlock for his betrayal and for everything he has done overall (included Durotan's death).

It would also turn Orgrim in an "unlikely hero" of sort, despite his war against the humans, because he would actually stop Gul'dan before he triggers some world-threatening event. At the same time, Orgrim would still suffer the consequences of his actions when he gets defeated by Lothar/Turalyon. It would be an actual nice way to give both sides a moment to shine.

Also, IIRC dealing with Gul'dan in this movie didn't really work out too well for Orgrim, so you'd think he would know better, right? Personally, I think with what they did in the movie, Orgrim would look insanely stupid if he beat Gul'dan and let him live, even though he already got burned by him once.

Again, I don't think Gul'dan could do much against a whole Horde that have now an alternative leadership figure to follow and is actually loyal towards.

Also, why would Orgrim not want revenge for Durotan? I think it would look weird that Orgrim spares the guy who caused the death of his best friend and the massacre of his entire clan.

Because Orgrim is not much of a sentimental dude. It's the whole reason why, despite his brotherly bond with Durotan, he still betrays him in the movie, simply because he thought Durotan was messing shit up and didn't trust his methods. In the canon lore, Orgrim burned from the desire to smash Gul'dan's head with his hammer but ultimately repressed the feeling to do what he deemed was right to do in the given circumstances.

I bet that Gul'dan is getting weaker. That toxic green stuff got to have some serious side effects. It will eat him up eventually.

Also this. Daniel Wu mentions this too. It would also give Gul'dan an added motivation to go for the Tomb of Sargeras.

[Deleted]

So tomorrow we have another big wave of releases including South Korea(until now it grossed 74M WW without China with 45.7M)

[jdbond592]

I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying it's indicative of the audience for the film in China. It isn't people walking up to the theater, it's fans specifically. As such I want them to see the movie multiple times to give us the best chance for a sequel. Get your head out of your ass and stop putting words in my mouth.

Welcome to China:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep2-Yw-zfNk

Your prediction will come true. Once the fan rush stops....

[Deleted]

If for the second & third movie they really want to make Thrall's story I really hope they do not skip important parts like Taretha.. But since they have to tell in parallel the second war where SO MANY things happen I wonder what they will skip and what they will keep

They will certainly show Stormwind's fall instead of a Lordaeron raid (to keep Lordaeron for the scourge) and mainly show the war between dwarfes and dragons-mounted orcs.
But they have to find a way to make the orcs go to Quel'thalas (still thanks to Alterac's help?) to team up with Zul'jin and then get pushed back to Blackrock moutain to have the iconic fight between Lothar and Orgrim ..
There must be also room for subplots like what about Gul'dan and his warlocks/death knights? Creation of the firsts paladins? Ner'zhul, the legion etc? And of course Thrall?

OR they will completly skip the second war and entierly dedicate the movie to Thrall but that would be a shame!

[Wikiy]

2 hours to go! So excited.

[Tornwar]

I have a feeling that Duncan really wanna give use Thrall's story asap. So I think he will change the time when other events happens. Maybe. I dunno how he could do that, but I think he is pumped to give us Thrall, that's for sure

[quras]

Well, my take on it.


It’s an average “B” rate movie with good to great CGI that doesn’t always work. The overall story is mediocre. For lore fans it is true that you have to go in expecting it to be warped and not just a little. Sure it’s a movie but damn they could have done better. So lets get on with it.

Scenery. Some of it was good but some was off putting. Case in point, the entire surprise attack in Elwynn Forest. The orcs looked good. The humans were terribly mixed in and the back dropped looked nearly fake with little depth to it. I was disappointed at many of those forest shots. There was something very “off” about them through the movie.

The wide open shots were good enough but many of the close ups and some fighting scenes in didn’t look good or mesh well with the scene they were in. The back ground just didn’t mesh well with the front scene going on. It’s like they tried to draw your eye to the foreground and the backdrop to a dip in quality. Pull the camera back, throw it in a larger shot and it got a little better.

The acting, varied wildly and depending on who you played went from cringe to pretty good (more on that in a bit)
The action was good and at times very good.

However, as long as no one talked except Gul’dan, Duratan and Orgrim (orcs mostly). Once you start bringing in the humans (including garona) things go downhill. I really feel like Jones blew his wad on orcs and left the (humans, many human scenes, human script lines, pretty much anything not orcs) as secondary material. The orcs were so over the top well done it makes the rest of the movie look like something made for TV at times. The round table like discussion with the king and the other races was tough to watch. The scene with garona and medivh when they talk about his past and love. The queen and garonas interaction in her small cell, any scene with lothar and his son, garona’s first throne room scene (lets sniff the statue as if she has never seen a statue before) or her and Llane at the end and their “deal”. If it involved humans (or garona for that matter), it boiled down to “B” rate acting, poor lines, bad scenes and even worse setup to build character, an emotional moment or tension. Humans got a really short stick in this movie.

I can only make a few exception to that if I can remember them. Lothar and medivh after his son died when they were discussion plans with the Llane. That scene felt good overall. It had tension, you could feel it build. They almost ruined it though. Throwing lothar in jail however almost killed the moment but the scene was strong. He’s upset. Throw his ass in jail? Not send him away, just put him in jail till he’s claimer. It started going south again.

But, Khadgar breaking him out was pretty redeeming with a bit of easter egg material.

The scene as medivh died under the headless golum talking to khadgar. Changing the portal to SW. Another of the few good human scenes with good scripting and acting.

When Khadgar and Lothar at the end were talking about garona and what side she was on. It was better scripted and performed. Like I said, very few actual good human scenes.

And then my pet peeve of how little demons were involved for a story that was supposed to be the beginning. What little was there was barely explained other than fel with was pretty bad. No mention of the orcs drinking the demons blood and how that affected nearly all the orcs before they came through the portal. It set the stage for damn near all orcs for years to come as well as what they did once through the portal. Through all the changes to lore and omissions, they made sure the human possessed by a demon was in though. I found that retention of lore strange. Why was it not just fel? For me it all seemed done to reduce just how demon influenced the orcs were at that time. Which leads me to…

This might as well have been a orcs movie for how mediocre the humans turn out over all. So very few good human scenes. They play second fiddle to nearly everything the orcs do from lines to scenes to what little character build up any of them have (which is little to none for most). They wanted to make sure you liked the orcs in every way possible to get around the stereotype already in people’s heads about orcs that they went overboard and made the rest of the actors, scenes and movie lacking. For all we heard of making this equal for both, it really was not. If you are a “For the Horde” you got your moments and got quite a few of them. The rest of will have to deal with a far distant placing and mediocrity in this movie.

After watching the rest of this last night there are just to any mistakes with too few really good moments. Entertaining at times and not so much at others. I can see fans and non-fans having issues with it as well as some thinking it’s a little better depending on what you like in fantasy. What you like and dislike about warcarft in general.

5.5 / 10 is the best I can do for it overall. If you are a strict “For the Horde” person, then I could see it as a 6 or 7.

[Lesane]

I think all the non-fans who say them not being a fan was the biggest drawback for them is kinda bullshit. They are presuming they would know more if they had prior knowledge, but honestly, anyone with half a brain can follow the story.

This movie throws a lot at people in 2 hours in terms of characters, locations and terminology. For Warcraft players who know what Ironforge is and what Dalaran is and what a Guardian is and can somewhat place it in context it's fine, but to people who are not familiar with the games it can be very overwhelming I'd imagine. For some people that won't matter, but it's very valid feedback for a group of people who will watch this movie.

https://twitter.com/kateyrich/status/740341587864064000

what? o.O

I think you have to see that in the context of her previous tweet where she said she'd promise to tweet as soon as she loses track of what is going on within Warcraft.

[eschatological]

Just a reminder - post constructively in this thread. Calling people dumb or stupid because they have an opinion, positive or negative, about a movie, is not acceptable.

[Deleted]

When the reviewers start to retract their own predictions:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmen.../#5a565ea55711

[Soulwind]

Jesse Cox uploaded a video with his toughts on the movie.



Fair enough.

[Deleted]

the movie was pretty average. not great, not bad - just average. it had some great moments but it also had waaaay more serious flaws unfortunately..........................
the curse isn't broken and honestly you are delusional if you think it is. this is a fucking great movie only for fans and a very average movie for non fans (granted it was also great for a number of people that have no idea about warcraft but just because some of your friends or family loved it doesn't mean that everyone thinks like that).

but try to see the bigger view. the majority of reviewers and simple people (including maaany famous youtubers with tons of thousands if not million of followers) found it VERY average and not what they expected for. there are some good reviews but it's the minority, really.....

the numbers speak of themselves. it's not the next lotr. you all wanted this to be a big success like lotrs. all of you wished it, all of you wanted it dearly. including me. but we failed. admit it and get over it. we.failed.hard. AND I SAY THIS WITH A DEEP SADNESS. duncan jones won't dare to make a next warcraft film if he cares about his career after his name got so many negativity with this film.

I am not enjoying what is happening but it's the bloody truth people.

[Tornwar]

Again number 1 on the user rating on Kino.dk

[Soulwind]

the movie was pretty average. not great, not bad - just average. it had some great moments but it also had waaaay more serious flaws unfortunately..........................
the curse isn't broken and honestly you are delusional if you think it is. this is a fucking great movie only for fans and a very average movie for non fans (granted it was also great for a number of people that have no idea about warcraft but just because some of your friends or family loved it doesn't mean that everyone thinks like that).

but try to see the bigger view. the majority of reviewers and simple people (including maaany famous youtubers with tons of thousands if not million of followers) found it VERY average and not what they expected for. there are some good reviews but it's the minority, really.....

the numbers speak of themselves. it's not the next lotr. you all wanted this to be a big success like lotrs. all of you wished it, all of you wanted it dearly. including me. but we failed. admit it and get over it. we.failed.hard. AND I SAY THIS WITH A DEEP SADNESS. duncan jones won't dare to make a next warcraft film if he cares about his career after his name got so many negativity with this film.

I am not enjoying what is happening but it's the bloody truth people.

If Blade, X-Men, Spiderman, Iron Man and Batman Begins broke the superhero movie curse, then Warcraft has broken the videogame one.

Those movies are just as flawed, and while some of them improved and managed to become really good films (Spiderman 2, The Dark Knight, Winter Soldier), others didn't (Iron Man 2 and 3, the X-Men franchise, Thor, Fant4stic, The Avengers, Man of Steel).

[Deleted]

the movie was pretty average. not great, not bad - just average. it had some great moments but it also had waaaay more serious flaws unfortunately..........................
the curse isn't broken and honestly you are delusional if you think it is. this is a fucking great movie only for fans and a very average movie for non fans (granted it was also great for a number of people that have no idea about warcraft but just because some of your friends or family loved it doesn't mean that everyone thinks like that).

but try to see the bigger view. the majority of reviewers and simple people (including maaany famous youtubers with tons of thousands if not million of followers) found it VERY average and not what they expected for. there are some good reviews but it's the minority, really.....

the numbers speak of themselves. it's not the next lotr. you all wanted this to be a big success like lotrs. all of you wished it, all of you wanted it dearly. including me. but we failed. admit it and get over it. we.failed.hard. AND I SAY THIS WITH A DEEP SADNESS. duncan jones won't dare to make a next warcraft film if he cares about his career after his name got so many negativity with this film.

I am not enjoying what is happening but it's the bloody truth people.

You know, I hate people like you, doesn't matter which side of the spectrum, who go "WELL, I'VE SEEN IT AND MADE MY OPINION, NOW ACCEPT IT AS TRUTH AS I PREACH IT ONTO YOU AS THE GOSPEL."
We aren't gonna go "Awww, Jaikal said it's average, guess that's it, then."
There was a guy a while back who did the same, but said it was great. I told him the same thing: Your word isn't holy and all-defining. Don't act like it is.

[Deleted]

the curse isn't broken and honestly you are delusional if you think it is.

"Breaking the curse" was never about being the best mainstream video game movie ever, it is about several factors like respect for the IPs, being a financial success and have more successful video games movies afterwards. Just like the comic books movies in the late 90s until today.

[Tornwar]

Sorry, but there was never a superhero movie curse. I wish people would stop spouting this nonsense.

But there was.

[Soulwind]

Sorry, but there was never a superhero movie curse. I wish people would stop spouting this nonsense.