[BETA] Destruction Warlock Discussion

[Sylar Hao]

So according to the front page, Rain of Fire is changed. But there are two descriptions of it, in wowhead too. One says that deals a bit less damage. The other says that it is also instant and costs no shards. :S I hope it is the last one.

[Dastey]

So according to the front page, Rain of Fire is changed. But there are two descriptions of it, in wowhead too. One says that deals a bit less damage. The other says that it is also instant and costs no shards. :S I hope it is the last one.

I'm fairly certain that's the Demo/Affliction version. Yes I know they can't use it, but there is also a Disc/Holy version of voidform despite them not being able to use that either.

[Uzkin]

Perhaps not, but "chaos" has literally literally been in the description for quite a while, and chaos is typically exemplified by randomness.

Yeah, I guess that's how it went.

Dev1: Hey guys Legion is all about class fantasy, so what shall we do with destro?
Dev2: RNG Fest!!
Dev1: Wait, what? That's literally the antithesis of what destro has been about.
Dev2: But they have a spell called CHAOS bolt, don't they?
Dev1: Yes, but if that's your...
Dev2: CHAOS. RNG. Dooo eeettt!!
Dev1: Sigh, ok will do. I also changed Chaos Bolt into chaos damage to fit this new "class fantasy" of yours.
Dev2: LOLWUT?! Don't be ridiculous, change it back.

[Gaidax]

So according to the front page, Rain of Fire is changed. But there are two descriptions of it, in wowhead too. One says that deals a bit less damage. The other says that it is also instant and costs no shards. :S I hope it is the last one.

Don't worry it did not change mechanically besides damage.

[Gnarilex]

Aside from potential issues with the mastery that could probably be avoided with a floor that raises with mastery, how's the spec? I've been without internet since beta started.

..So what about the other part of this that was ignored?

[dwightyo39]

Are the critical strike bonuses from the pvp talents Firestone and Initiation buffing the damage of Chaos bolt?

[hiramloram]

Yeah, I guess that's how it went.

Dev1: Hey guys Legion is all about class fantasy, so what shall we do with destro?
Dev2: RNG Fest!!
Dev1: Wait, what? That's literally the antithesis of what destro has been about.
Dev2: But they have a spell called CHAOS bolt, don't they?
Dev1: Yes, but if that's your...
Dev2: CHAOS. RNG. Dooo eeettt!!
Dev1: Sigh, ok will do. I also changed Chaos Bolt into chaos damage to fit this new "class fantasy" of yours.
Dev2: LOLWUT?! Don't be ridiculous, change it back.

Dev 3: By the way, what the fuck is "class fantasy"?
Dev 1: You fucking newb. It's a meaningless bullshit catchall term we employ to justify whatever we do.
Dev 2: Yeah, it's really sweet. We gutted warlocks and turned them into turrets because "class fantasy".
Dev 3: When did it become "class fantasy" for warlocks to be turrets?
Dev 1: Beats me. Some time between 5.3 and 6.0, I guess. Who gives a shit?
Dev 2: Seriously. And the best part is, we get to decide what "class fantasy" is.
Dev 1: We can create, maintain, and discard as many or few definitions of "class fantasy" whenever we want, across as many classes and specs as we want.
Dev 2: We're free to change those definitions yearly, monthly...hell, even hourly if we want.
Dev 1: And we can't be held accountable for any incongruities because it's our term that we made up to justify our changes.
Dev 2: Yup. So if anyone doesn't like the latest wave of "class fantasy" changes, it's their fault for not keeping up.
Dev 3: But are our subscribers gullible enough to fall for that?
Dev 1: My God, you really are a fucking newb.

[Baconeggcheese]

..So what about the other part of this that was ignored?

Bout the same with potentially a few extra buttons.

[PickleballAce]

Have you ever noticed how on the forums somebody says "I hate mana tap" and suddenly all anybody can talk about for a week or two is how shit mana tap is?. Then after the buzz of that wears down...

Personally I think that has more to do with the five stages of grief than anything.

Denial: "They can't possibly have given us yet another shitty, boring, maintenance ability! Must be a mistake."

Anger: "I can't believe this garbage is still in the talent tree. Are the Devs huffing paint?"

Bargaining: "Please Celestalon, replace Mana Tap with anything, I don't even care what it is."

Depression: "They won't cut Mana Tap...I don't think I can go on playing Warlock anymore."

Acceptance: "Just going to have to get used to it, I guess. Maybe it won't be that bad?"

[Fallensaint]

..So what about the other part of this that was ignored?

Single target DPS is fundamentally the same: generate resources to shoot Chaos Bolts. The major differences are that we've got a smaller Chaos Bolt pool to work with, but also more useful buttons we can use. I've been playing mostly without Soul Conduit but with 3 points in Soulsnatcher, and shard generation feels fairly regular to me, better than baseline ember generation but lower than Charred Remains ember generation.

Two target DPS is much better once you get accustomed to the changes to Havoc, even if you aren't specced into Wreak Havoc.

AoE feels off to me. RoF isn't enough to sustain AoE DPS due to it's high shard cost, so our untalented AoE DPS is really weak compared to other class' baseline AoE DPS. Talents are either passive effects or long-ish cooldowns, and none of them really help much with the underlying problems with RoF.

Mobile damage is a bit better with instant rifts and the changes to Shadowburn. Move speed on the other hand feels much lower without circle and/or Burning Rush. If you run a dungeon with DHs and a druid or monk healer it feels like you're wearing lead boots.

Survivability is good. Baseline Soul Leech is really good for mitigating frequent minor damage, especially with Demon Skin. Dark Pact and Unending Resolve are just as strong as on live. The return of Drain Life and Health Funnel is nice for soloing difficult elites. One interesting thing I noticed is that Life Tap and Health Funnel will consume absorb shields before consuming health, which is some nice synergy with Soul Leech.

Summon Doomguard doesn't feel like an adequate replacement for Dark Soul. It's damage is lower than a GoServ imp on twice the cooldown, and the shard cost messes with my rotation.

[Soulzar]

Personally I think that has more to do with the five stages of grief than anything.

Haha, this is also very true. I'm still in stage 4 regarding Soul Shatter.

[grizzlysaurusrex]

On the subject of instant rifts: I think it feels really weird to cast--like there's not enough feedback that anything actually happened when you push the button.

[Gaidax]

On the subject of instant rifts: I think it feels really weird to cast--like there's not enough feedback that anything actually happened when you push the button.

I actually seriously love it - it has this cool "weapon up in the air" animation.

Although I think a nice touch would be some sort of initial spawn effect where portal rift and staff are tethered by some cool effect at the spawn moment.

Think like Fel Lightning coming out of staff to the spot where portal will spawn.

[grizzlysaurusrex]

I actually seriously love it - it has this cool "weapon up in the air" animation.

Although I think a nice touch would be some sort of initial spawn effect where portal rift and staff are tethered by some cool effect at the spawn moment.

Think like Fel Lightning coming out of staff to the spot where portal will spawn.

The character's animation for it is great. That tether you're talking about would go a long way in making it feel like you/the staff is actually spawning the portal, hopefully it gets implemented. It just feels really disconnected right now.

[Fearsom1992]

Destro is super fun in high gear man it was a blast in raid testing lol did they buff the portals and do they still not work with havoc?

[sugarfree]

It's kind of awkward because a lot of the feedback was something along the lines of "immolate feels too significant important to the point where it makes destro almost feel like a dot spec" and then they turn around and buff immo more.

I wasn't one of the people making that complaint, but its funny to see them just buff it like that.

It is basically becoming Cataclysm Destro again. Which is sad because that sad state of a spec become unplayable due to low burst and most of its damage is baked in a dot.

[Fallensaint]

It is basically becoming Cataclysm Destro again. Which is sad because that sad state of a spec become unplayable due to low burst and most of its damage is baked in a dot.

It's not really comparable to Cata Destro. Immolate is important primarily for shard generation, it's damage contribution is nowhere near as huge as Chaos Bolt's is for single target damage.

[Deleted]

I actually seriously love it - it has this cool "weapon up in the air" animation.

Although I think a nice touch would be some sort of initial spawn effect where portal rift and staff are tethered by some cool effect at the spawn moment.

Think like Fel Lightning coming out of staff to the spot where portal will spawn.

I really like the Fel Lightning effect at the trash of HFC after the first 2 bosses, would probably look really cool if that Lightning would tear open our reality to create portals.

[Baconeggcheese]

It is basically becoming Cataclysm Destro again. Which is sad because that sad state of a spec become unplayable due to low burst and most of its damage is baked in a dot.

That sounds like a stretch, they'd have a long way to go to make that happen. The spec still has a ton of potential burst.

Really its everything that mop / wod destro was with a little bit added / changed and a bit more emphasis on keeping immolate up which is already fairly high priority.

[Entricks]

I still hate Mana Tap. I also hate manually applying Immolate to everything before using anything else because Cataclysm still has a 1 minute CD... Why even take FnB when we spend 50% of the time Immolating, we never even get any Incinerates off :\