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  1. #101
    I am Murloc! Pangean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    That's hardly the worst he can be. He can fuck trade with China, screw our relationship with Mexico, and initiate the rise of a massive race war in the US.

    - - - Updated - - -



    She's likely to select a judge who would be more comfortable overturning things like DC v. Heller, and since the new justice would make a 5/4 liberal majority, they could actually do it.
    Prehaps, just conjecture that they would overturn their own recent precedence.
    What are we gonna do now? Taking off his turban, they said, is this man a Jew?
    'Cause they're working for the clampdown
    They put up a poster saying we earn more than you!
    When we're working for the clampdown
    We will teach our twisted speech To the young believers
    We will train our blue-eyed men To be young believers

  2. #102
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    I think they're both terrible, and I won't vote for someone I don't like. Say Hillary winds up enacting some law that censors video games? I don't want to be responsible for helping her get elected.

    I'll probably just write in some name so that my ballot doesn't get rejected.
    But whichever candidate does get elected, you'll be responsible for not voting against them. Say Hillary enacts some law that censors video games (yeah, right). OK, maybe you didn't want that, but is it worse than watching the country burn under Trump?

    Hillary has some positions I think are dangerous. Particularly, positions with regards to surveillance. But I'll still vote for her, and deal with the fact that she's going to do things I detest with surveillance, because I don't want to be responsible for someone even worse getting into office.
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    I actually get the idea of wanting the brush fire to clear the weeds or whatever. The problem is the next President is guaranteed to pick another SCOTUS justice, who are appointed for life. So that brush fire doesn't just last for a 4 year term. It lasts 40 years, and affects some very fundamental things about life in the US.
    Sure, a scotus pick is important, but he's picking a qualified justice, it's not like he's enacting himself into the position. Even if he's the worst president the country has ever seen, it's not that dangerous to go to any random judge in the federal system and enact them, considering they've got to be pretty good to get that far. The only issue one may have is that they may lean towards looking at the law a different way than you want them to.

  4. #104
    Pandaren Monk Bushtuckrman's Avatar
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    I have ni why people hate her OP she seems very trustworthy to me...



    Can't wait for Trumps announcement on Monday about her. I have a feeling the conversation that Bernie had with Obama was a long the lines of 'stay in the race, she's about to get indicted'.
    I may not agree with what you say but I will fight to the death to defend your right to say it.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smauldy View Post
    As someone that leans left on a lot of issues, I don't hate her but her connections to Wall Street are extremely alarming, especially since she refuses to release the transcripts of private speeches made to Wall Street executives. Also, she takes plenty of corporate money and donations, and I strongly feel that getting big money out of politics is CRITICAL if America ever wants to have true democracy.
    Compromise is not in the American dictionary.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    It's not my fault the American education system doesn't teach you shit.
    Pretty weak trolling. Bring your A game next time.

    Infracted - Minor Spam
    Last edited by Crissi; 2016-06-09 at 07:34 AM.
    What are we gonna do now? Taking off his turban, they said, is this man a Jew?
    'Cause they're working for the clampdown
    They put up a poster saying we earn more than you!
    When we're working for the clampdown
    We will teach our twisted speech To the young believers
    We will train our blue-eyed men To be young believers

  7. #107
    don't hate her per se, just really don't like her face or attitude. though I will say I doubt she'd be as annoying as president then Trump would be. nothing in life annoys me more then that orange tinted asshole droning on about how great he is.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    Trump has lied as much if not more. He also speaks two various sides at the same time "I will bring back coal jobs AND we will have clean air and water".
    Well, ironically, he's correct there.

    Coal filter technology makes coal much cleaner than Oil nowadays and much less damaging to water tables.

  9. #109
    Closest party to me would be Libertarian though I don't agree with them on everything.

    I dislike her enough (and Trump) to be voting for someone else (not 100% i like Gary enough to vote him, but probably will). I can't stand Hillary because she seems to think the rules don't apply to her, even if the email scandal reveals no classified documents the way she handled it was extremely telling, as she had to be forced to do things. Also while she is all for transparency she has been very cloak and dagger about the whole issue. Add into it she is a typical politician whose beliefs become whatever is popular (see her stance on gay marriage years ago vs now to see an example of this).

    I am a bit fucking weird in that how I would handle it is that no matter what my personal beliefs are they don't matter when I am elected because my role then is to serve the peoples wish, my actual purpose is to serve as a voice of moderation for those people, and ensure they don't suppress/oppress minorities with their power (and my own views be damned, and yes I realize how dumb that sounds). So seeing someone who says she supports whatever is popular and apparently switches her beliefs (this is a strong point of why I don't like her, I don't truly know what she believes, and people on both sides of the spectrum can't give me a good answer for it).

    At the end of the day one thing she has made clear is Hillary is looking out for herself, and that is the exact person I don't want in power. I will probably at to this later but just woke up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Lol, really drunk the Hilary Koolaide here.

    Know what? Instead of saying absurdist statements about trump. Show us how Hilary will not be the most corportist facist cuntmonkey to ever grace the white house.
    You really asking someone to prove a negative? Lol.
    What are we gonna do now? Taking off his turban, they said, is this man a Jew?
    'Cause they're working for the clampdown
    They put up a poster saying we earn more than you!
    When we're working for the clampdown
    We will teach our twisted speech To the young believers
    We will train our blue-eyed men To be young believers

  11. #111
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smauldy View Post
    As someone that leans left on a lot of issues, I don't hate her but her connections to Wall Street are extremely alarming, especially since she refuses to release the transcripts of private speeches made to Wall Street executives. Also, she takes plenty of corporate money and donations, and I strongly feel that getting big money out of politics is CRITICAL if America ever wants to have true democracy.
    Sure, but you need structural changes to stop money influence. Changing the voting system and the lengths of terms would be a big improvement. But while Clinton has plenty of big money donors (as do ALL politicians), Trump IS BIG MONEY. He's that exact thing. May as well elect Koch Industries president directly instead of letting them donate to Super PACs.
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

  12. #112
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Pangean View Post
    Pretty weak trolling. Bring your A game next time.
    Considering you think American isn't "Rich people voting for Rich people" I'd probably consider you the troll.

    Can you name any of the poweful people in the political parties who are poor?

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    But whichever candidate does get elected, you'll be responsible for not voting against them. Say Hillary enacts some law that censors video games (yeah, right). OK, maybe you didn't want that, but is it worse than watching the country burn under Trump?

    Hillary has some positions I think are dangerous. Particularly, positions with regards to surveillance. But I'll still vote for her, and deal with the fact that she's going to do things I detest with surveillance, because I don't want to be responsible for someone even worse getting into office.
    I don't look at it that way.

    Also, I have literally no control over what my state does. I would bet money on Clinton winning in my state, considering no Republican has won here since 1988.

    Maybe our political system needs to burn. I certainly don't know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    I am ACTUALLY ASKING for them to ban me and relieve me from the misery of this thread.

  14. #114
    Hate is too strong a word. She's just really low on the list of people I'd like to see holding political office.

    She has often supported interventionist use of military force at times and in ways that are inconsistent with achieving a victory condition. Her interest in nofly zones undermining extra-national sovereignty show a lack of respect for other nations that will make internation diplomacy much more challenging. Her promotion of trade agreements like the TPP and earlier NAFTA show a deeper disdain for other governments.

    She derives much of her wealth from real estate and from speaking arrangements. Since the speaking arrangements are through corporate interests, and real estate has been unduly propped up by international instability, she is positioned very well to benefit from diplomatic failures. This isn't evil, but she checks a lot of the boxes used in the late 90s to identify transnational criminals.

    Her support of and by the oil and coal trade is unforgivable. She goes beyond letting these businesses ride out their remaining years supporting infrastructural transformation and instead actively supports major environmental destruction and risk taking that surpasses our ability to repair it.

    Essentially, she would never be the best fit, and right now her weaknesses are all in the places where we need strengths. It doesn't help that her message and positions have been unreliable as it makes it hard to look at changes in her policy as real changes. This isn't a bad thing exactly either, but it does make it harder for her to make the necessary shifts in policy in a convincing manner.

  15. #115
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdierksii View Post
    Reeve, I'm not entirely sure if your thread is really about understanding why people don't like hillary, it appears as if your defending her regardless of anything put your way about her. For constructive and informative conversation, Bias should be put aside.
    I'm asking people for their reasons. People who are giving reasons with actual events and information to back them up, I'm either agreeing with, or I'm engaging them to try to discuss whether or not the evidence they're presenting actually makes her a worse candidate than Trump. This is a discussion thread, and I hope in challenging people on some of these points I can encourage them to think through their positions and why they believe them, as they can do for me.
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

  16. #116
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Pangean View Post
    You really asking someone to prove a negative? Lol.
    You know, it doesn't automatically stop an argument when you suddenly shout H-HE DID A FALLACY I WIN.

    Ironically, it's called the Fallacy Fallacy. I presented an argument, you need to disprove it with a counterpoint, not a statement of fallacy.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    So for this thread, please indicate what you consider your political affiliation or place on the political spectrum, then explain why you dislike Hillary Clinton (especially if you dislike her enough to allow Trump to win), and please give specifics, examples of the reasons, not just vague assertions.
    Do I have to give specifics about why I don't like rasberry ice cream? I didn't care for Bill, I don't care for Hillary. She doesn't come off as a trustworthy person. Plus she acts like most all other politicians, she wasn't for gay marriage, then she was, but she disagrees she changed her position. Bill seems to have cheated on her from nearly day and she stood by her man, which seems to me, they were more of a professional marriage than anything else. So they just seem to be fake people, who play the role of being just like the normal man.

    With that said, she's probably the best candidate to be president, simply because she knows how to play the game.

    There is a side that wants to see Trump win just because I don't believe it would be nearly the end of the world like everyone thinks and I'd like to see the political system get a massive shake up and make all the groups go back to figure out where they went off track.

  18. #118
    she was broke when she left the white house, while owning two mansions, and getting paid big bucks to speak to bankers oh and by the way you cant see the transcript and getting kickbacks from her billion dollar foundation. i cant fathom how some people look to this woman like shes a god, it makes my skin crawl.

  19. #119
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabrotar View Post
    As some others mentioned it before just the whole fucking situation that you have to vote between 2 shitty candidates should say/tell you something about your fucking horrible voting system.
    Yeah, the system is fucked, but as long as we're in it, we should use it to get the best outcome possible, even if you don't like the outcome.
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

  20. #120
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narwal View Post
    Sure, a scotus pick is important, but he's picking a qualified justice, it's not like he's enacting himself into the position. Even if he's the worst president the country has ever seen, it's not that dangerous to go to any random judge in the federal system and enact them, considering they've got to be pretty good to get that far. The only issue one may have is that they may lean towards looking at the law a different way than you want them to.
    You don't have to already be a sitting federal judge to be appointed to the Supreme Court. Trump could nominate Rush Limbaugh if he wanted (not that he would, but you get the idea).
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

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