[Legion] Discipline Priest Discussion

[tachycardias]

In Legion does twist of fate apply from atonement healing, or only direct heals?

[Totaltotemic]

In Legion does twist of fate apply from atonement healing, or only direct heals?

All healing events created by you (Atonement, direct heals, trinket proc heals, and I believe even the passive self-shield from Share in the Light will proc it if you happen to be low enough).

Well PI is haste without the downside (mana usage), so if you value haste for healing then surely it should count as a healing CD It doesn't mean it's better than ToF though, of course. I just assume that dungeons in general have more downtime than the standard raid fight (in between pulls etc, although this should be minimized), giving the edge to a CD over something that is more passive. The nice thing about ToF is that it procs when you need it, so it boils down to uptime. It also affects damage which is nice - I assume no double-dips for atonement, sadly.
CoW just has very weak competition in its row for 5 mans, and doesn't apply the dot that Shadow Mend has. That said, it is probably better to smite + SM instead of CoW and pick Halo instead.

Yes PI is amazing, and the only reason it's not by far the best talent on the row is that ToF is insane in any situation where it can have reasonable uptime (wouldn't be surprised to see it nerfed down to 15% damage/healing at some point).

The 2.5s cast time is what kills CoW. Consider that CoW is an absorb, meaning people need to take damage for it to be used. If they are taking damage, then Shadow Mend's DoT is no longer a concern. This means these two spells fill the exact same use-case, and Shadow Mend is always more HPM and HPS. Further than that though, CoW is "Olaf'd" to borrow a LoL term that basically means it has an unhealthy design and therefore is nerfed to oblivion on purpose so that no one will ever use it until it is fixed.

I have no idea about how long it takes to get Artifact Power, but you said you can usually get to Power of the Dark Side before you even hit 110? How long would it then take to get to Barrier for the Devoted? Would we have that by the time raids begin, or fairly early into raids?

Barrier and Dark Side are equidistant from the starting point, but Sins of the Many can be had with 3 fewer trait investments once you are already at one of the two other goldens. I believe that when raiding starts, we will just barely have our 2nd golden trait. The problem with going Barrier 2nd instead of 3rd though is that it forces going through Vestments of Discipline, which on top of being nearly worthless on its own also increases the eventual time to Sins of the Many by 3 traits, whereas if you go Dark Side then Sins then Barrier you can avoid the trait entirely.

Also, which Relics are looking like our best? I'd be guessing at Edge of Dark and Light and/or Borrowed Time? And can you have two relics that increase the same trait?

I agree those are probably the two best. You can have as many relics increase the same trait as you want (a friend got 6/5 of a trait by having all 3 match). If I had to guess I would say that Edge of Dark and Light is slightly better because in raids we won't be Smiting very often and on any cleave situation PtW is a large share of damage (~30-40%).

[Symmone]

its exactly what I was hoping it to be (although I'd kinda like there to be at least another proc of some kind (although we do get that legendary) or if we still had AA in PvE).

This is my only complaint. Doenst have to be AA but some sort of interesting, synergizing ability that can highlight the class fantasy in a fun way. I think the only real throughput cooldown we have is mindbender at this point coming from the spec inherently.

[tachycardias]

This is my only complaint. Doenst have to be AA but some sort of interesting, synergizing ability that can highlight the class fantasy in a fun way. I think the only real throughput cooldown we have is mindbender at this point coming from the spec inherently.

Rapture? Light's Wrath?

[Symmone]

Rapture? Light's Wrath?

Lights Wrath isnt inherent in the spec but I forgot about rapture. However I meant more something that is more synergistic that you work towards or something more related to our class fantasy of light/dark balance or atonement healing.

[Totaltotemic]

Lights Wrath isnt inherent in the spec but I forgot about rapture. However I meant more something that is more synergistic that you work towards or something more related to our class fantasy of light/dark balance or atonement healing.

Light's Wrath is exactly that unless you arbitrarily decide that being attached to gaining the weapon that you will get before you do anything at all with the spec in Legion isn't "inherent in the spec."

[Deleted]

is it just me or are many tanks on the beta not using their active mitigaion (like ignore pain)?

I've had few dungeon runs where healing as disc was actually enjoyable while the majority of runs was spamming shadow mend and still having the warrior drop low through it.

At first I thought disc is may really badly tuned but then I put the tank in my focus and kept an eye on his buffs an that guy was literally on full rage but not using ignore pain while I was spamming shadow mend like a madman. What is wrong with these people?

I feel like a bad tank is absurdly punishing as disc right now.

[Appatastic]

is it just me or are many tanks on the beta not using their active mitigaion (like ignore pain)?

I've had few dungeon runs where healing as disc was actually enjoyable while the majority of runs was spamming shadow mend and still having the warrior drop low through it.

At first I thought disc is may really badly tuned but then I put the tank in my focus and kept an eye on his buffs an that guy was literally on full rage but not using ignore pain while I was spamming shadow mend like a madman. What is wrong with these people?

I feel like a bad tank is absurdly punishing as disc right now.

That was really the only big issue I had when testing with disc in heroic/mythic 5 mans. Outside of those types of situations where you get a bad or inexperienced tank, I found disc to be extremely enjoyable to play (especially with mouseover macros in place). Shadowmend spamming a tank who could be performing better is definitely not fun.

The most frustrating part is when the group decides that disc sucks because the tank is taking so much damage. Once people get more informed about the class and tank changes I think it will start to sort itself out (hopefully!)

[Deleted]

That was really the only big issue I had when testing with disc in heroic/mythic 5 mans. Outside of those types of situations where you get a bad or inexperienced tank, I found disc to be extremely enjoyable to play (especially with mouseover macros in place). Shadowmend spamming a tank who could be performing better is definitely not fun.

The most frustrating part is when the group decides that disc sucks because the tank is taking so much damage. Once people get more informed about the class and tank changes I think it will start to sort itself out (hopefully!)

Good to know it's not just me. I just don't get what these tanks are doing. I've been playing some prot warrior on the beta and tanking is actually pretty fun and not really hard. A properly played tank (in normal dungeons) will need barely any healing at all most of the time.



2 more questions:
What do you guys do on pulls with lots of little AoE mobs?
Have I missed something in my spell book or do discs have no real way of dealing AoE damage? Smiting seems really ineffective in these situations but at the end of the day it's the only thing I can really do outside of shielding/shadow mending-

When am I supposed to use my artifact spell?
I've been using it pretty randomly right now and have the feeling that I'm totally missing out on it's potential. (I mean it's got to have some amazing potential with such a long cooldown, right?)

[Yunzi]

When am I supposed to use my artifact spell?
I've been using it pretty randomly right now and have the feeling that I'm totally missing out on it's potential. (I mean it's got to have some amazing potential with such a long cooldown, right?)

Unless an emergency happens and you need to use it right then, try to have two conditions met for Light's Wrath use in raids:

1) Lots of atoned players, more than usual - so prior to Light's Wrath cast a couple PWRs.

2) Within the Schism window - so a typical Light's Wrath sequence would be PWR > PWR > Schism > Light's Wrath

This highlights one aspect of the difficulty and complexity of playing Disc in contrast to other healers - other healers just press one button - Tranquility, Divine Hymn, etc. and can do so in reaction to damage already taken, while if Disc tries to one-button Light's Wrath we lose out on the 30% damage bonus, the atonement bonus of that 30% extra damage, and the extra atonement targets produced by PWR > PWR as opposed to whatever we would have cast there instead.

PWR > PWR > Schism at 20% haste takes 5.2 seconds to cast - so we need to know more than 5 seconds in advance that large incoming damage is going to happen to prepare for a good use of Light's Wrath.

[Totaltotemic]

Except he's talking about dungeons and currently playing on Beta, in which you would not use multiple PWRs to set up Light's Wrath because there are only 5 people and you are most likely not using Schism.

In which case, you use it when you have a couple of seconds to cast it and people are heavily damaged, but not damaged enough that they'll die before the cast is over and if they already have Atonement. There's not that much thought that goes into it, it's just a big nuke/heal.

[Bonezerker]

For those who have been playing disc in beta, I have a question. My guild is a heroic raid guild that usually runs around 15 players with 3 main spec healers. We currently run Holy Paladin, Mistweaver and Resto Druid for our heals setup, but recently lost our druid for IRL issues. I currently main a Boomkin but told my raid lead I would switch to heals in Legion, mainly because disc looks like a lot of fun and a hell of a lot more challenging than current Boomkin.

My question is, can a disc priest hold their own as a raid healer? If played well, can they match the throughput of a Shaman or a Druid, my other 2 options for Legion? I understand that tuning isn't complete right now, but I haven't seen anywhere if Blizzard has discussed what their plan is for disc. Have they stated whether or not they want disc to be able to hold their own as a raid healer, or are they going to be the hybrid that doesn't either heal or dps particularly well?

[Ersula]

For those who have been playing disc in beta, I have a question. My guild is a heroic raid guild that usually runs around 15 players with 3 main spec healers. We currently run Holy Paladin, Mistweaver and Resto Druid for our heals setup, but recently lost our druid for IRL issues. I currently main a Boomkin but told my raid lead I would switch to heals in Legion, mainly because disc looks like a lot of fun and a hell of a lot more challenging than current Boomkin.

My question is, can a disc priest hold their own as a raid healer? If played well, can they match the throughput of a Shaman or a Druid, my other 2 options for Legion? I understand that tuning isn't complete right now, but I haven't seen anywhere if Blizzard has discussed what their plan is for disc. Have they stated whether or not they want disc to be able to hold their own as a raid healer, or are they going to be the hybrid that doesn't either heal or dps particularly well?

Disc can heal just as well as any class, as long as you factor in two things:
1.) Some of their "healing" is damage mitigation. Both from shields and from smite's new mechanic of mitigating *outgoing* damage.
2.) Disc is the most difficult to play. But an experienced player can get both exceptional healing, and the added bonus of relevant damage dealing. If you're a priest and feel overwhelmed by Disc's playstyle, you can still play Holy, which is the more straight-forward of healing specs in Legion.

[Yunzi]

Slootbag on Towellie's stream just announced that Disc is designed to do less healing than the other specs - he even pointed out that for mythic+ dungeons it will take "wacky comps" to support bringing a disc priest.

On this forum we've talked about "good discs" being fine in mythic+, which may well be true, but typical discs are in for a whole lot of problems and the reputation of discs in general is going to be poor. We have the real potential of being considered second-class healers.

[Supliftz]

It's just a stupid idea.

Disc will never see play in mythics if it does less healing than most healers because "Wow omg dat free healer dps though".

Why would you play a disc priest in a raid setting for extra healer dps, when you can play rising thunder monk, do way more healing, and still do competitive healer dps? Just truly stupid honestly.

Dps healing -only- works if you don't lose any healing for your dps. If disc priest is overpowered, nerf the dps, not the healing done.

[Toroc]

I actually enjoy this style of healing however, I can see a lot of players not being the priest they thought they were due to how simple we used to be. Let the rerolls begin. Being horrible at Disc won't be the only reason though.

[Gorsameth]

Slootbag on Towellie's stream just announced that Disc is designed to do less healing than the other specs - he even pointed out that for mythic+ dungeons it will take "wacky comps" to support bringing a disc priest.

On this forum we've talked about "good discs" being fine in mythic+, which may well be true, but typical discs are in for a whole lot of problems and the reputation of discs in general is going to be poor. We have the real potential of being considered second-class healers.

Yeah I saw that as well and it basically confirms what I feared would happen.
It is kinda the same thing that happened with Monk Fistweaving in MoP, it failed then and I fully expect it to fail now.

Healing through damage sounds like an amazing concept and really interesting but it is an incredible pain to get right if you want it to be on par with traditional healing and not OP because of the added damage to a raidgroup.

Atleast Priests will have a Holy spec to fall back on.

[Deleted]

Slootbag on Towellie's stream just announced that Disc is designed to do less healing than the other specs - he even pointed out that for mythic+ dungeons it will take "wacky comps" to support bringing a disc priest.

On this forum we've talked about "good discs" being fine in mythic+, which may well be true, but typical discs are in for a whole lot of problems and the reputation of discs in general is going to be poor. We have the real potential of being considered second-class healers.

Well, good thing that Sigma said immediately after that, basically, slootbag was talking BS. He could have been a little bit clearer on the topic though.
Also, bad players are bad players, no matter what class they play. Regarding the reputation, well, sure, when you rely on PuGs. But then again: You won't progress very far anyways, i.e. you will have other problems than your class having a bad reputation.

Atleast Priests will have a Holy spec to fall back on.

yes, about too late into progression when you realize Disc is shit but you already invested thousands of artifact power in that spec.

[Ulmir]

They should really have another look at disc talents for 5-mans and make something of CoW at the same time. Quite frankly we might need something similar to Grace in more talent rows.

Talents for more pure healing and less damage is what I'm getting at. Hopefully tuned to make healing more attractive in really hight M+ dungeons and damage in raids.

[Spryte]

yes, about too late into progression when you realize Disc is shit but you already invested thousands of artifact power in that spec.

This is my exact fear. I still want to see if I can get a good performance out of discipline priest in Legion, but if after levelling and gearing it, and investing so much in an artifact, they turn out not to be viable then im screwed. I think this just pretty much confirms my choice to tank for main progression.