The results of the Blizzard/Nostalrius talks are in.

[Warcrafting]

http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44218

I must say, this looks promising for us. Makes me a little more hopeful for the possibility of legacy servers in the future.

[SoulSoBreezy]

http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44218

I must say, this looks promising for us. Makes me a little more hopeful for the possibility of legacy servers in the future.

If there's one appropriate occasion to ask how many raid tiers this will cost, this could be it.

[Zaeyla]

Fingers crossed they make a legacy server announcement soon or at blizzcon

[Schattenlied]

If there's one appropriate occasion to ask how many raid tiers this will cost, this could be it.

Presumably none... If they were going to undertake something like this, it would likely be with a completely different development team than what currently works on the current content, since its mostly just about building the data and setting up servers, they don't have to do almost any actual design work, no model creation, no making new skeletons, no animating, no world/dungeon design, no quest making, it all exists already... They say not everything was saved in version control but what was lost is likely minimal and isn't being created from scratch, the ideas are already there and they already know how it needs to work.

Theres a few minor bugs they would need to fix, and maybe make some of the nearly useless specs, like Ret/Enh viable if they really wanted to, which would basically require nothing more than giving ret a 6s cd crusader strike and lowering the CD on stormstrike for enh.

[Calfredd]

can someone give me a TL;DR pls

First, they DO have the source code for Vanilla WoW. Code version control systems are not something new, as it has been a standard in the industry for a long time. With these systems, they can retrieve the code at any given previous backup date.However, in order to generate the server (and the client), a complex build system is being used. It is not just about generating the “WoW.exe” and “Server.exe” files. The build process takes data, models, maps, etc. created by Blizzard and also generates client and server specific files. The client only has the information it needs and the server only has the information that it needs.

This means that before re-launching vanilla realms, all of the data needed for the build processes has to be gathered in one place with the code. Not all of this information was under a version control system. In the end, whichever of these parts were lost at any point, they will have to be recreated: this is likely to take a lot of resources through a long development process.

In addition to the technical aspects of releasing a legacy server Blizzard also needs to provide a very polished game that will be available to their millions of players, something existing unofficial legacy servers cannot provide.

Blizzard team was cool and understanding and it wasn't a PR move to having met the Nostalrius team but I quoted the bit about Vanilla code because I think that bit is the most important part (them not being jerks was nice too).

Fingers crossed they make a legacy server announcement soon or at blizzcon

Okay so they WANT Legacy servers, they are defiantly aware of the demand for it, and they have the code for it.

Blizzcon announcement inc.

First, they DO have the source code for Vanilla WoW. Not all of this information was under a version control system. In the end, whichever of these parts were lost at any point, they will have to be recreated: this is likely to take a lot of resources through a long development process.

I wouldn't even think about an announcement in the near future let alone an announcement at Blizzcon.

[Polybius]

can someone give me a TL;DR pls

Blizzard isn't against the idea, but it would take time and resources. Game needs polishing if it's going to be available to millions of players.

However, in order to generate the server (and the client), a complex build system is being used. It is not just about generating the “WoW.exe” and “Server.exe” files. The build process takes data, models, maps, etc. created by Blizzard and also generates client and server specific files. The client only has the information it needs and the server only has the information that it needs.

This means that before re-launching vanilla realms, all of the data needed for the build processes has to be gathered in one place with the code. Not all of this information was under a version control system. In the end, whichever of these parts were lost at any point, they will have to be recreated: this is likely to take a lot of resources through a long development process

[Nekobe140]

Okay so they WANT Legacy servers, they are defiantly aware of the demand for it, and they have the code for it.

Blizzcon announcement inc.

[Calfredd]

So lots of hand waving and maybes with zero commitment.

Boy, am I ever not surprised.

So you think the Nostalrius team was handled like a bunch of fools?

[Jerichofr]

Okay so they WANT Legacy servers, they are defiantly aware of the demand for it, and they have the code for it.

Blizzcon announcement inc.

No. They see a small demand for it, they have a small desire to make them, and they have PORTIONS of the code for it, the rest would need to be re-created from scratch.

Blizzcon 2020 announcement inc.

[Vineri]

No. They see a small demand for it, they have a small desire to make them, and they have PORTIONS of the code for it, the rest would need to be re-created from scratch.

Blizzcon 2020 announcement inc.

There is a huge desire, when you consider all the millions who have played WoW but no longer play WoW, then see YouTube Videos with millions of views, disregard for Blizzard's stance, and huge %'s of thumbs up rankings.

The code is all there. Version controls are likely to be found. It's hard to displace entire versions, unless their staff really sucked at archiving. Even then alternate backups should be available. Worst case, versions near complete - but not lost.

Build files will be recreated, using new resources and likely code modification to reflect the new architecture.

I hope to hear more!

[Lochton]

http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44218

I must say, this looks promising for us. Makes me a little more hopeful for the possibility of legacy servers in the future.

Why could this not be posted in the already open mega thread?

[Mifuyne]

Why could this not be posted in the already open mega thread?

Because these Nostal people are specul.

[SoulSoBreezy]

Presumably none... If they were going to undertake something like this, it would likely be with a completely different development team than what currently works on the current content, since its mostly just about building the data and setting up servers, they don't have to do almost any actual design work, no model creation, no making new skeletons, no animating, no world/dungeon design, no quest making, it all exists already... They say not everything was saved in version control but what was lost is likely minimal and isn't being created from scratch, the ideas are already there and they already know how it needs to work.

Theres a few minor bugs they would need to fix, and maybe make some of the nearly useless specs, like Ret/Enh viable if they really wanted to, which would basically require nothing more than giving ret a 6s cd crusader strike and lowering the CD on stormstrike for enh.

That doesn't come free.
No need to reply. I'm just voicing a concern and will step away before mods inform us to move this to the megathread.

[Xargoth6634]

This is promising and I'm hoping we'll get vanilla servers at some point in the near future. But I think there are other concerns for Blizzard as well, despite people talking about the enormous demand for such servers. You have to remember that Nost was free and there's no way Blizz is going to release Vanilla servers for free, especially since, as they demonstrated, it'd require significant cost and effort to get them up and running. It's easy to point to people who played Nost and say "AMG LOOK AT THIS HUGE MARKET" but the reality is that while many of us would play if it were part of our sub fee (or maybe for a slight increase for access) there are a lot of people who played as much because Nost was free as because of a huge, deep desire to revisit vanilla content. What percentage of Nost players would pay a WoW sub fee for access to vanilla realms? I'm not sure that number is as high as some people might think.

I'm willing to believe that Blizzard execs are actually making a good faith effort to try and get this going, or at least look into it seriously, and that this meeting and presentation was more than just a PR scheme. Many of them have played the game for a long time and likely would like to see legacy servers. But at the end of the day the creation of legacy servers has to be at least a break-even move for Blizz, because it's a business. 240k people signing a petition isn't likely to turn into 240k increased subs. I've seen many of you post your beliefs that there's an enormous market out there for legacy servers and Blizz stands to make good money off of them, but I don't see anything concrete that those beliefs are based off of. Talk and signatures are cheap, but hopefully what's transpired will be enough to convince Blizzard that it's worth a shot. After all, sub numbers are dwindling and the game as it stands now is not sustainable forever. Legacy servers *might* give WoW the capacity to live on awhile longer. (And no, I don't think WoW is dead or dying anytime soon, I'm just a realist looking at sub numbers and how that's played out with MoP and WoD.)

[Relapses]

can someone give me a TL;DR pls

tl,dr - We'd love to do Legacy realms but the technical challenge makes them an incredibly difficult task

[Kyanion]

can we use the mega thread? nahhhh

[Vineri]

This is promising and I'm hoping we'll get vanilla servers at some point in the near future. But I think there are other concerns for Blizzard as well, despite people talking about the enormous demand for such servers. You have to remember that Nost was free and there's no way Blizz is going to release Vanilla servers for free, especially since, as they demonstrated, it'd require significant cost and effort to get them up and running. It's easy to point to people who played Nost and say "AMG LOOK AT THIS HUGE MARKET" but the reality is that while many of us would play if it were part of our sub fee (or maybe for a slight increase for access) there are a lot of people who played as much because Nost was free as because of a huge, deep desire to revisit vanilla content. What percentage of Nost players would pay a WoW sub fee for access to vanilla realms? I'm not sure that number is as high as some people might think.

I'm willing to believe that Blizzard execs are actually making a good faith effort to try and get this going, or at least look into it seriously, and that this meeting and presentation was more than just a PR scheme. Many of them have played the game for a long time and likely would like to see legacy servers. But at the end of the day the creation of legacy servers has to be at least a break-even move for Blizz, because it's a business. 240k people signing a petition isn't likely to turn into 240k increased subs. I've seen many of you post your beliefs that there's an enormous market out there for legacy servers and Blizz stands to make good money off of them, but I don't see anything concrete that those beliefs are based off of. Talk and signatures are cheap, but hopefully what's transpired will be enough to convince Blizzard that it's worth a shot. After all, sub numbers are dwindling and the game as it stands now is not sustainable forever. Legacy servers *might* give WoW the capacity to live on awhile longer. (And no, I don't think WoW is dead or dying anytime soon, I'm just a realist looking at sub numbers and how that's played out with MoP and WoD.)

I'd resubscribe at @ regular fees. Not to play retail WoW, but to play on an officially controlled Legacy server.

[nekobaka]

First, they DO have the source code for Vanilla WoW.

Doesnt counter what was said previously? Also looks like that wall of no is coming down fast.

[Badl1fe]

Unless you're one of the many players that see legacy servers as a novelty and wont play them much. It might not be for the legacy guys and gals, but WoW raiding (IMO) has gotten better and better. Yes there have been some tier that were just bad, and yes HFC for this long is terrible, but the raids are still great. So we should pass on "current" and future content for content people already know, will complete relatively quickly ( compared to when it was new content, I know it will still take more time than current tiers)? And what happens in 2 years when the people who LOVE Vanilla have farmed all the best gear on every toon they have? Farm all the raids for a few years. Now what? Thats why I have a great idea.


Should they make Legacy servers? Nope. What I think they should do (post Legion, finish that first, and make sure the raids will last a while, blizz has some work to do) is after they are mostly done working on Legion, they should take all the XPacs and make them ALL phased content. When you create a character you check box what content you want to start with. It's basicly server progression, when you want it. Each person who choses Classis can only level to 60, have all the old zones, old abilites, old quests, raids, and are phased from everyone that hasn't selected classic. Finally done PVPing at 60? Done every raid so much it's getting old? Visit the same guy that can start and stop your XP ( he would have to be added to older content) and move on to TBC. Same situation all the way up to live.

I understand this would be a metric ton more work than just making a Classic server ( I hate the term Vanilla, makes it sound boring as shit). Personally I have no desire to play Classic, I would love to revisit TBC. And I know there are people who love each xpac. Hell I have hear there are MoP private servers.

This way, everyone gets the content they want, but from a programming stand point it's adding layers of CRZ and phasing. I'm in programming so I know it's actually a lot more in depth than that, but you get the jist of it.

[beanman12345]

tl,dr - We'd love to do Legacy realms but the technical challenge makes them an incredibly difficult task

Isn't that what has already been stated, officially, many times now?