[Beta] Vengeance Discussion

[gcsmith]

Do keep in mind that you cannot stack Flame Crash and SoF. If you cast one then the other, the second one will replace the DoT of the first so you lose that DoT damage. The "skill" aspect comes in placement and in timing. Ideally if using Flame Crash you wouldn't actually cast SoF, you would just use the one from Infernal Strike, then cast SoF when the DoT from the Flame Crash has <=2 seconds left.

The Leech will be nice for Single Target, I would still suggest that the Cloak is Best, and depending on the fight, the Boots would be next best for Immo Aura Magic Reduction, and reduced cd on Fiery Brand.

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Yeah all soul cleave does is draws in souls. It doesn't effect anything else with souls. So any buffs or procs aren't effected by Soul Cleave

My point was I never realized that splitting soul fragments would count the same as full "When you kill" souls. Also, man, no rune of fire, but I have blade dance as vengence, which is good I geuss.

[Munkky]

My point was I never realized that splitting soul fragments would count the same as full "When you kill" souls. Also, man, no rune of fire, but I have blade dance as vengence, which is good I geuss.

Don't be mistaken. There is a difference between an on kill, and one from Shear/Soul Carver/Fracture. Those 3 spawn a Lesser Fragment, and an on kill on spawns a Normal Soul Fragment. A Demon's Soul is just any soul from a demon. Doesn't matter how it was spawned. So just remember that there is a difference between on kill and forced spawn.

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The main difference being that Normals or just Soul Fragments, heal for 5 times as much as a Lesser Soul.

[Drosul]

One thing most people missed is the PvP concern:


The new Darkness talent, which is admittedly pretty strong for group pvp.... and actually makes Darkness worth using REPLACES the talent that gave you a Fel Blade-like teleport to target on Shear.

That's an incredibly big nerf to Vengeance target uptime, without compensation in that area. Granted, the talent giving a generator a gap closing mechanic was probably entirely too strong (hell it was probably too strong for Havoc being used on a spender in Chaos Strike) but there's going to be a significant dropoff in target uptime because of this, considering our lack of reliable snares.

[Cooper]

Don't be mistaken. There is a difference between an on kill, and one from Shear/Soul Carver/Fracture. Those 3 spawn a Lesser Fragment, and an on kill on spawns a Normal Soul Fragment. A Demon's Soul is just any soul from a demon. Doesn't matter how it was spawned. So just remember that there is a difference between on kill and forced spawn.

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The main difference being that Normals or just Soul Fragments, heal for 5 times as much as a Lesser Soul.

Do demons' souls heal in addition to the damage buff, or does the damage buff replace the heal?

[Munkky]

They still heal they just give a buff as well. ThEmily demon thing is just adding something to the soul. So if you spawn a lesser or a normal, if it comes from a demon it's still a lesser or regular, it just gives the damage buff. So it acts in the same way.

[Cooper]

They still heal they just give a buff as well. ThEmily demon thing is just adding something to the soul. So if you spawn a lesser or a normal, if it comes from a demon it's still a lesser or regular, it just gives the damage buff. So it acts in the same way.

Do you get the damage buff if you consume a demon soul with Soul Cleave?

[Munkky]

Yeah all soul cleave does is draws in souls. It doesn't effect anything else with souls. So any buffs or procs aren't effected by Soul Cleave

@Cooper Here you go.

[grizzlysaurusrex]

Is anyone else getting stuck in a weird crouching pose when metamorphosis ends?

[FenixAU]

Is anyone else getting stuck in a weird crouching pose when metamorphosis ends?

Yes.

/10char

[TheLimonTree]

Do keep in mind that you cannot stack Flame Crash and SoF. If you cast one then the other, the second one will replace the DoT of the first so you lose that DoT damage. The "skill" aspect comes in placement and in timing. Ideally if using Flame Crash you wouldn't actually cast SoF, you would just use the one from Infernal Strike, then cast SoF when the DoT from the Flame Crash has <=2 seconds left.

The Leech will be nice for Single Target, I would still suggest that the Cloak is Best, and depending on the fight, the Boots would be next best for Immo Aura Magic Reduction, and reduced cd on Fiery Brand.

I hadn't thought about the dot being overwritten, good point.

[Orloth]

I think someone said earlier that IS is off the GCD. If you use IS at point blank range (or close enough to trigger Flame Crash) does it put you out of range for your other abilities? or can you continue with your rotation as normal?

P.S. Thanks for the QA!!!

[Munkky]

I think someone said earlier that IS is off the GCD. If you use IS at point blank range (or close enough to trigger Flame Crash) does it put you out of range for your other abilities? or can you continue with your rotation as normal?

P.S. Thanks for the QA!!!

You can still use all of your abilities while doing Infernal Strike as long as you are in range. If you use it while already within melee range, to proc Flame Crash, you can still use anything, you simply are jumping in the air to move a half inch to the side.

[Orloth]

So we'd be using spare charges of IS in our rotation whether or not we had Flame Crash then, right?

[Munkky]

Ideally yes you would. As long as you don't need them for mobility.

[Orloth]

Awesome! Thanks!

[gcsmith]

Well, I haven't managed to do a dungeon yet, but for leveling, so far I feel invincible. Also, it's so fun playing DH tank, you always have a button to press and it isn't always shear

[zox2]

Can I ask you dear beta people, to post images of your vengeance meta form? I'm wondering how the look changes with different tattoo colours and such.
Also, I'm a little bit worried how vengeance will feel during the pre-patch/pre-release time, since our talent tiers are 100+. Not that it matters too much in the grand scheme of things...

[Zabbs]

Also, I'm a little bit worried how vengeance will feel during the pre-patch/pre-release time, since our talent tiers are 100+. Not that it matters too much in the grand scheme of things...

It didn't play super great prior to the talent shake up. It seems better now. The arrangement of our talent tiers will impact the pre-patch/leveling experience. Granted we start with ilvl 685 gear and under the new tank/healer meta. The community will be dealing with the new tank meta during pre-patch too. It's not all that different, but I've seen riots for less.

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Gluttony isn't working properly. It is supposed to give you a stack everytime you consume a soul. Doesnt matter how you consume it. Th ideal play style for it seems to be to simply build up to 80 pain then double soul cleave. Also the buff only lasts 10 seconds so in low haste gear it makes it harder to play around. I haven't done the math on it yet but I think it's safe to assume a 10-20% damage buff on soul cleave in aoe with fallout. If you don't take fallout this talent is useless.

My own testing confirms this. Gluttony kind of serves the same purpose as Flame Crash but is less bursty and requires a longer fight time to reach full potential. It is also very easy to lose the buff between packs depending on your group. It will need a significant buff or to become untethered from souls (mostly controlled through single target Fracture) to become competitive. It's an interesting mechanic that has too niche of a use in the current way the class functions.

[Promdates]

Well, I haven't managed to do a dungeon yet, but for leveling, so far I feel invincible. Also, it's so fun playing DH tank, you always have a button to press and it isn't always shear

The only time out in the wild that I've felt unhappy with DH was when I was doing the pvp world quests. Even going solo vs the rare world quest mobs with 50+ million hp wasn't that bad (just takes a while to kill)

[Delimit]

What didn't you like about the pvp quests?