Obama Legacy

[alturic]

Um, what? Yes it does. That's exactly what it means. It's the midpoint in a sample distribution.

Err, you're totally right, like I said early.

[Vyxn]

True. I'd argue that's mostly because of supply side economic policies, though. When you make capital gains taxes so low, people tend to take their earnings out of businesses instead of reinvesting them for more growth. And when the working poor has less money to spend, businesses tend to have less reason to grow.

do you even know what the fuck you are talking about? capital gains tax is a tax on profits earned from all investments including investments in business stocks so when you have a high capital gains tax it effects all investments including those that get used to start and grow businesses

[Lenonis]

The President often leads the legislative agenda for their party, and brokers deals on Capital Hill, though. And they do get that final say as to whether or not to veto.

Yes -- no doubt. But there was just a little too much power being given the president in Vxyn's rant. The president cannot pass laws through an uncooperative congress and blaming the president for that isn't very honest.

[Reeve]

Err, you're totally right, like I said early.

Hahaha, you had me questioning my sanity there for a moment. Like what have I been believing all these year? My world flipped, turned upside down.

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do you even know what the fuck you are talking about? capital gains tax is a tax on profits earned from all investments including investments in business stocks so when you have a high capital gains tax it effects all investments including those that get used to start and grow businesses

Yes. But you pay capital gains taxes when you pull cash out of the investment. So if you have a high capital gains tax, you're more likely to leave the money in the business to help it grow than to pull it out and pay taxes on it.

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Yes -- no doubt. But there was just a little too much power being given the president in Vxyn's rant. The president cannot pass laws through an uncooperative congress and blaming the president for that isn't very honest.

Yeah absolutely. I just wanted to make sure we all agreed that it isn't as if the President is completely powerless in terms of legislation.

[Ghostpanther]

median family income increased under Reagans trickle down and also under JFK when he cut taxes
history is bitch when it keeps proving you wrong isn't it
so I will ask you the same thing what is Obama excuse for having a average GDP growth at 1.6%
and a decrease in median family income

Ask me? I think the trickle down does work, but the conditions have to be favorable for it to. Which Reagan and JFK helped to create that. And as far as Obama, you should know by now I do not approve of his job while in office. lol!

[Zephire]

I don't start many (any?) threads, but as I sit here, mildly intoxicated and mourning that my Penguins couldn't close out the series, I'm watching Obama on Fallon's show, and I'm struck by something that I've often thought but never voiced.

That is that Obama came into office a progressive paragon, against both wars, against surveillance, a constitutional lawyer holding many of the positions that progressive folks hold. But he got into office and let us all down. Couldn't get a public option. Escalated the drone program. Extra-judicially killed AN AMERICAN CITIZEN. The list goes on. But what I was struck by watching him on Fallon tonight is that I still get the impression that at his core, he is a good guy and did the best he could...

It sound to me (non-american) that it's not Obama himself you don't agree with but the system. He tried hard to reach many goals but struggled due to how your system works and had to go halfway or back off completely to achieve something. Obamacare seems to me like a huge leap in the right direction. How much did he have to sacrifice to get it through?

Especially this caught my attention:

To borrow a phrase from the man, let me be clear; this is a horrifying conclusion for me to reach. I agreed with essentially nothing that he did in the past 7 years. Yet I still find myself believing that he was a decent man who did the best he could with shit circumstances and I question if given what he knows, I wouldn't have made the same choices.

Seems to me that you often feel let down by your presidents but this time, despite everything that was a let down, you still believe he's a decent man and did his best. I'd say, in that case, Obama was a huge improvement compared to previous presidents Even though he might have failed, he managed to create something, a foundation from which you could make America great again (sry, had to). Joke aside, the foundation still stands, let's hope you build something great from it.

[Vyxn]

Yes. But you pay capital gains taxes when you pull cash out of the investment. So if you have a high capital gains tax, you're more likely to leave the money in the business to help it grow than to pull it out and pay taxes on it.
.

or not invest at all

[Narwal]

While I agree, I have to push back a little. He had a filibuster-proof senate majority and both houses. He could have done absolutely anything. New Deal 21st century edition. I don't agree with the interpretation that he couldn't have done all those things. He absolutely could have. I'm mostly disturbed by the question of why he didn't.

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I agree. His terms will be characterized by the social progress that was made, but also noted as a time of great obstructionism.

If we're going to talk about his legacy as the social culture he created, we're going to look back and see the degradation of race relations and police relations with communities. Does that mean he wanted to create that degradation? No, what it means is he didn't know how to effectively improve outcomes for minorities. He wanted to squash all inherent/systemic racism, his methods to do so pulled the scab of relative racial peace to bleed again with outright vitriolic racism. The racism released is not just white on minority, it's minority on minority, and minority on white. The presidents inability to connect with the black community, except to come out and judge police guilty prior to their dates in court, will be seen as the catalyst to civil unrest for years to come.

[Deletedaccount1]

His legacy is going to be continuing America into the abyss.

He has slashed military spending to the point where it has compromised our global presence and saved us absolutely nothing in return. China has expanded into the South China Sea, Russia gets to do whatever they want, Terrorists get to roam freely across the Middle East.

Our finances from Bush to Obama have gone from bad to mad. The national debt is going to be $20 trillion before his successor takes office who is going to be one of two anti-free trade morons who isn't going to do shit about the debt. America has lost its AAA credit rating largely because our government spends so much.

His illegal drone program has killed innocent people including American citizens, he never closed Gitmo either.

He has expanded a massive, pointless, illegal surveillance program.

He has inadvertently soured race relations to the worst place they've been in decades.

He has made congress more bitterly partisan than it has been in 50 years by refusing to work with anyone.

He has refused to do anything about immigration and has just sat on the issue waiting for his successor to do something about it.

His withdrawal from Iraq created ISIS, our withdrawal from Afghanistan is going to turn it into what Yemen is today. He did nothing to capitalize on the Arab Spring and now the Middle East is in complete disarray.

[Narwal]

Seems to me that you often feel let down by your presidents but this time, despite everything that was a let down, you still believe he's a decent man and did his best. I'd say, in that case, Obama was a huge improvement compared to previous presidents Even though he might have failed, he managed to create something, a foundation from which you could make America great again (sry, had to). Joke aside, the foundation still stands, let's hope you build something great from it.

I've felt that every president we've had was a decent man and did his best. Even the last Bush. You can lambast him for his goof up s in speeches, but I never questioned his patriotism, love for his country, and his desire for it to be successful. I think he'd be more fun to sit down and have a drink with than any other president during my lifetime, 9/11 was a changing point in the world, and he was the man at the helm when it happened.

[Lenonis]

He has made congress more bitterly partisan than it has been in 50 years by refusing to work with anyone.

This again. How can you say something like this with a straight face when the GOP in congress were conspiring against him before he even took office?

This stuff annoys me to no end. Record number of filibusters. Closed door meets conspiring to torpedo Obama's administration and yet somehow people still blame Obama for it all? Ridiculous.

[Kujako]

This again. How can you say something like this with a straight face when the GOP in congress were conspiring against him before he even took office?

This stuff annoys me to no end. Record number of filibusters. Closed door meets conspiring to torpedo Obama's administration and yet somehow people still blame Obama for it all? Ridiculous.

It's Obamas fault for not admitting that he was a Kenyan Muslim and resigning. Clearly...

[Deletedaccount1]

This again. How can you say something like this with a straight face when the GOP in congress were conspiring against him before he even took office?

This stuff annoys me to no end. Record number of filibusters. Closed door meets conspiring to torpedo Obama's administration and yet somehow people still blame Obama for it all? Ridiculous.

It obviously isn't only his fault but he has absolutely refused to compromise on most things. If you refuse to see both sides of this, you are just proof of how partisanship makes people stupid. One tribe hating another.

[Lenonis]

It obviously isn't only his fault but he has absolutely refused to compromise on most things. If you refuse to see both sides of this, you are just proof of how partisanship makes people stupid. One tribe hating another.

In any failed negotiation both sides are at fault.

But you absolutely did not have the GOP negotiating in good faith. Their attempts to pass bills were along the lines of "give us everything we want or else."

That's not negotiating. I have this feeling people feel that unless Obama gave the GOP everything they wanted they'd view him as obstructionist. That's not how that works.

There are quite a few examples of Obama's attempts to negotiate early on. They didn't work out so well so he became less and less willing to do so. Hard to blame the guy.

I'm not willing to play the false equivalency here. The lion's share of the blame for the do-nothing congress lies on the GOP. Obama could have probably done better, but against this congress there is no way he'd have been able to work out anything resembling a reasonable deal.

[gyrados]

his legacy is gonna be his apologizing to our enemies and other countries and how weak of a leader he is remember when he said isis was "jv"

[mvaliz]

ACA
Bin ladan
gay marriage
greatest do nothing congress in history

Sums it up for me as well. He's been one of the best presidents in a long while.

[Thepersona]

It obviously isn't only his fault but he has absolutely refused to compromise on most things. If you refuse to see both sides of this, you are just proof of how partisanship makes people stupid. One tribe hating another.

you've got to be kidding me... he refused to see both sides? on what? global warming? in that there arent both sides!
in ACA? he did f*cking listen to the GOP and they slashed the bill to the sh*tty thing it is today

[Plutarch78]

Talk about a way to complete discredit yourself on these forums.

Aww you're such a sweet, colorful, gentle little boy, aren't you?

[Deletedaccount1]

In any failed negotiation both sides are at fault.

But you absolutely did not have the GOP negotiating in good faith. Their attempts to pass bills were along the lines of "give us everything we want or else."

That's not negotiating. I have this feeling people feel that unless Obama gave the GOP everything they wanted they'd view him as obstructionist. That's not how that works.

There are quite a few examples of Obama's attempts to negotiate early on. They didn't work out so well so he became less and less willing to do so. Hard to blame the guy.

I'm not willing to play the false equivalency here. The lion's share of the blame for the do-nothing congress lies on the GOP. Obama could have probably done better, but against this congress there is no way he'd have been able to work out anything resembling a reasonable deal.

Congress should be doing nothing. The government's spending right now is fucking mind boggling. Obama has failed as president because he has done nothing but pass more laws, more regulations, spending more on this, spending more on that, etc.

What good things has he done to protect our freedoms and make us a more free country? What has he done for the taxpayer?

Gay people can get married now, very good we can save a few million in legal fees. Too bad these couples get tax cuts now, we could sure use more of their money to help fund the behemoth of America's spending on social security, medicare, medicaid, etc.

Go back to our freedoms. He has tried to restrict our second amendment rights, subsequently becoming America's greatest gun salesman. He has repeatedly broken the fourth amendment on many levels. He failed as a president. Congress fails as a congress. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Thepersona]

Aww you're such a sweet, colorful, gentle little boy, aren't you?

sorry but obama is not gay, neither a muslim (and i have my doubts he is even a practicing christian as he says he is) neither a communist. you discredited yourself.
and also, why if someones sees that gay people can have the right to marry someone they love, that necesarilly makes that person gay? isnt that stupid?