Obama Legacy

[Reeve]

Actually what they are likely to do is blow more economic bubbles. There are not enough productive economic opportunities to earn a return on capital given that economic demand is so poor due to stagnating wages. And if the wealthy cannot earn a return from productive economic opportunities they will pile it into unproductive ones that will earn a return. What most people call "financial bubbles"

Which has little to do with Capital Gains taxes. If anything, capital gains taxes will tend to make people leave their capital in businesses that will actually grow steadily over time instead of investing speculatively.

[Detritivores]

It sound to me (non-american) that it's not Obama himself you don't agree with but the system. He tried hard to reach many goals but struggled due to how your system works and had to go halfway or back off completely to achieve something. Obamacare seems to me like a huge leap in the right direction. How much did he have to sacrifice to get it through?

Especially this caught my attention:

Seems to me that you often feel let down by your presidents but this time, despite everything that was a let down, you still believe he's a decent man and did his best. I'd say, in that case, Obama was a huge improvement compared to previous presidents Even though he might have failed, he managed to create something, a foundation from which you could make America great again (sry, had to). Joke aside, the foundation still stands, let's hope you build something great from it.

This is where we disagree. He has created nothing. Except an extrajudicial kill list. Yes gay marriage, yes marginally improved health care, but these are long overdue social changes, not something a president does. Yes he was the first president in my life time that I don't sincerely believe is a sociopath. That's not a particularly high bar to brag about crossing, as a nation.

And the idea that "the system" foiled him is what I'm pushing back against. I don't see a lot of evidence that makes me believe that claim.

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His legacy is going to be continuing America into the abyss.

He has slashed military spending to the point where it has compromised our global presence and saved us absolutely nothing in return.

Stopped reading here. No time to respond to people living in a fantasy world.

[Slant]

That is a viewpoint that I admit I don't understand. Europe gave him Nobel Peace Prize for crying out loud. Do you guys really care that much if our leader is a moron or not? It doesn't seem to effect our actions. Is it just that he talks the talk you want to hear or what? I really can't distinguish between him and Dubya internationally.

Well, for starters he didn't invade another sovereign country without any legal or well, even illegal justification. He had no justification at all. The cause for the invasion of Iraq can actually be summed up thus: "Ah heck, while we're down here, might as well fuck some Iraqis up again..."

That is the essence of anything that remains as a justification for that invasion.

Want me to go on? Because I could... Obama didn't re-create an axis of evil and somehow included Germany and France in it. Obama actually took care to place countries on the correct continents. He actually treated everyone respectfully, even if everyone knows he doesn't actually like everyone and can be a hard negotiator if he needs to be.

I mean seriously, that you have to ask is kinda frustrating. It shows just how little US media reports from the outside and at the same time it explains why some of your fellow Americans actually think the US is the center of the universe.

[alexw]

His legacy will be one of hype and not substance.

He doubled our national debt. Really think about that. During his two terms he doubled our national debt to 19.3 trillion dollars, unprecedented.

He also will be the first President where the GPD wouldn't have risen above 3%, again unprecedented.

His only real "contribution" was the failed Obamacare, which surprise surprise, has increased health care costs and decreased service. Keep in mind, that member's of the Senate and Congress, numerous govermental agenices and even Obama and his family were able to "opt out" of Obamacare. Gee, I wonder why? If it was such a great plan, why wouldn't the Senators, Governors, various governmental agency employees and the President himself not want to be a part of it?

Also, welfare seekers increased under the Obama administration.

He was also a race baiter in my opinion, by injecting himself into race related matters. Remember Trayvon Martin, the thug who was assaulting George Zimmerman? "If he had a son, it would look like Trayvon Martin". He also dispatched various members of his staff to numerous funerals of black people who turned out to be violent criminals, yet wouldn't even attend the funeral of Supreme Court Justice.

He will be remembered in time as much as Jimmy Carter, once the liberal media "hype" dies down, and the "rubes" wise up.

Ahh I see your ban wore off. Can't say I'm surprised at the laughable partisan rubbish you post here. Not surprised in the least.

You know one might think that inheriting a financial disaster that was second only to the great depression in severity might have some long-run economic consequences.... but oh no not to Trigglypuff....... the president just needs to wave his la-la land magic wand for everything to go away, and its all Obama's fault he didn't wave it.....

[Vyxn]

What will they do with the money if they don't invest it? It's either invest it and get some return, let it sit in an interest-free account and get no return, or spend it. There's zero reason to do the second thing, and both the first and third things are good for the economy.

it gets moved off shore and invested immune to the our capital gains tax
so tell me what is better 30% of nothing or 15% of something
we have billions upon billions of dollars off shore that wont be brought back into the US because of the high taxes that would accrue for doing so. so it just sits off shore benefiting other economies and not our own

[alexw]

Which has little to do with Capital Gains taxes. If anything, capital gains taxes will tend to make people leave their capital in businesses that will actually grow steadily over time instead of investing speculatively.

What I meant was was that lowering capital gains taxes will almost certainly increase the "bubble-like" qualities of the current economy. We need to take this money out of the system so they can't blow more bubbles with it not increase the rewards for speculative behavior.

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

Ahh I see your ban wore off. Can't say I'm surprised at the laughable partisan rubbish you post here. Not surprised in the least.

You know one might think that inheriting a financial disaster that was second only to the great depression in severity might have some long-run economic consequences.... but oh no not to Trigglypuff....... the president just needs to wave his la-la land magic wand for everything to go away, and its all Obama's fault he didn't wave it.....

Like always, you add nothing of substance, just personal smears.

Do you plan to add your opinion or just partake in personal attacks?

[Lenonis]

Ok -- enough of this nonsense. Everyone who wants to talk about Obama and the national Debt -- please read the below, learn the difference between debt and deficits, realize how budgets and economy works and come back to attempt to re-articulate how awful Obama is on the debt. (Spoiler alert -- you can't. This isn't a legitimate area of attack on Obama...sorry).

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/...nce-the-1980s/

[enragedgorilla]

I didn't like a lot of his (insert political ideologist shit here) ...., I would sit down and have a meal with the guy though (back yard bbq.)

His legacy , to me....is to show just how divided this country is, how intolerant it really is and just how far we need to go.
Politics IS a religion in my mind.
Oh, and I would NEVER want to be an elected official.

[Slant]

Um, what? Yes it does. That's exactly what it means. It's the midpoint in a sample distribution.

I'm a bit shattered... why the fuck is median quoted every so often then? That's the shittiest bullshit metric you can have for stuff... is this because people have to calculate for a proper average? Is that too difficult?

[Lenonis]

I'm a bit shattered... why the fuck is median quoted every so often then? That's the shittiest bullshit metric you can have for stuff... is this because people have to calculate for a proper average? Is that too difficult?

Mean and median really go hand in hand to tell you information about a data set. The mean is the average, the median the midpoint. How different they are from each other then tells you a lot about how lopsided the data distribution is.

In a symmetrical (ie-bell curve) data set the mean and the median would be identical. But if you have a lopsided distribution the mean and median will be totally different. Income inequality has a large difference between mean and median due to the small number of people who own a lot and the huge number of people who own a little.

[alexw]

Like always, you add nothing of substance, just personal smears.

Do you plan to add your opinion or just partake in personal attacks?

Then post something useful in your criticism not just total rubbish that there is zero point in replying to.

I mean we just suffered the worst financial crises since the great depression and he inherited dealing with it and its costs and legacy, and yet somehow its Obama's fault that the debt skyrocketed, and that growth is slow? Honestly, what planet are you living on that you come to these conclusions of yours instead of sane ones?

[Detritivores]

Well, for starters he didn't invade another sovereign country without any legal or well, even illegal justification. He had no justification at all. The cause for the invasion of Iraq can actually be summed up thus: "Ah heck, while we're down here, might as well fuck some Iraqis up again..."

That is the essence of anything that remains as a justification for that invasion.

Want me to go on? Because I could... Obama didn't re-create an axis of evil and somehow included Germany and France in it. Obama actually took care to place countries on the correct continents. He actually treated everyone respectfully, even if everyone knows he doesn't actually like everyone and can be a hard negotiator if he needs to be.

I mean seriously, that you have to ask is kinda frustrating. It shows just how little US media reports from the outside and at the same time it explains why some of your fellow Americans actually think the US is the center of the universe.

Syria is really the only thing I think you can point to, as I later edited in. He didn't invade Syria. That's no small thing (although Hillary probably will). And he's not an idiot. That's about all I'm hearing. Granted, not getting Syria-zoned is a big deal, but you all loved him well before that. And as far as I can tell it was just because he pronounced "nuclear" correctly. Which is fine. I like smart people more than dumb people. But their actions outside of understanding English and prior to not invading Syria are difficult to distinguish.

[Slant]

Mean and median really go hand in hand to tell you information about a data set. The mean is the average, the median the midpoint. How different they are from each other then tells you a lot about how lopsided the data distribution is.

In a symmetrical (ie-bell curve) data set the mean and the median would be identical. But if you have a lopsided distribution the mean and median will be totally different. Income inequality has a large difference between mean and median due to the small number of people who own a lot and the huge number of people who own a little.

Ahhh, thanks for explaining. So a median by itself is useless, but with the mean that actually makes more sense. Ok, sanity restored.

[Detritivores]

Surprisingly well put.

Not sure whether to be pleased that you say it was well put or upset that you were surprised :P

[Reeve]

it gets moved off shore and invested immune to the our capital gains tax
so tell me what is better 30% of nothing or 15% of something
we have billions upon billions of dollars off shore that wont be brought back into the US because of the high taxes that would accrue for doing so. so it just sits off shore benefiting other economies and not our own

If it's moved offshore, they still have to pay taxes on it.

[Detritivores]

I never said he was a muslim (even though he probably is) or a communist (no one is actually sane enough to consider themselves one). And who, exactly, are you to decide who gets "credit" for something on here? Stop being a PC fuckboi.

You are bad and should feel bad. Stop saying words.

[Slant]

Syria is really the only thing I think you can point to, as I later edited in. He didn't invade Syria. That's no small thing (although Hillary probably will). And he's not an idiot. That's about all I'm hearing. Granted, not getting Syria-zoned is a big deal, but you all loved him well before that. And as far as I can tell it was just because he pronounced "nuclear" correctly. Which is fine. I like smart people more than dumb people. But their actions outside of understanding English and prior to not invading Syria are difficult to distinguish.

Where did I speak about Syria? The fact that he didn't immediately invade Iran or some other country already was in his favour. Nevermind the joke of his Nobel Prize, nobody cares about that. He was a president who could actually communicate, knew what diplomacy meant and danced on the international floor better than some Europeans did. He earned your country a lot of respect that GWB lost.

I mean that guy was an utter idiot. I am not talking about his inability to pronounce the simplest word, his absolutely embarassing lack of basic primary school education, geography or even a hint of common sense. I'm talking about him being actually, certifiably and undeniably an utter idiot.

To illustrated this for you: Never before, IN THE HISTORY OF THE USA, did the US have any comparable unanimous support as you did after 9/11. EVERYONE was on your side, even fucking Russia and China. And he lost the entire support within 2 years. Seriously, I cannot begin to tell you how rarely stupidly and utterly idiotic you have to be to lose that kind of international supprot WITHIN TWO YEARS. You must be either Hitler or Stalin or the biggest bloody idiot that has ever lived on this planet to be POTUS and even fucking lose the support of your fucking closest European allies!

Bar the UK of course, but everyone knows they're big fanbois and can see no wrong in the US.

[Reeve]

I didn't like a lot of his (insert political ideologist shit here) ...., I would sit down and have a meal with the guy though (back yard bbq.)

Oh yeah, I'd love to have a BBQ with the guy. I'd probably like it with Bush Jr. too though, and I thought he was a fucking awful president.

I can't say I'd like to have a BBQ with Hillary Clinton, and yet I'm going to vote for her.

[stabetha]

Reagan inherited as great or greater of a mess then Obama and by his 4th year he was having GDP growth as high as 6%
so what is Obamas excuse?

his excuse is everyone racist.