No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Mafic]

Never said it was just about convenience, but it is certainly not content. You can't compare unlocking dungeons, raids or PVP through an achievement in the same way. Flight is not the same type of gameplay as either of those, even if an individual values it greater than the sum of all other types of gameplay. Even if the individual values this as content, it doesn't mean it is, and shouldn't be compared as such.

Then why is flying being gated like it is content? Flight is a tool to reach content faster or just for fun.

Why is flight being gated by multiple reps (and who know what else) while the rep requirements for Suramar dungeons is far more lenient?

[Bun-Bun]

Fair enough, but your join date wasn't after 6.2.2 when flight was put back into the game. Long before that, the requirements were listed as well, on Blizzards official website. If you don't frequent that for information on the game, you don't get to complain about not being notified. That's them notifying you.

How they handled it was pretty garbage. I don't disagree with that. I wasn't very impressed with it either. Shit happens though. They planned to remove flight 100%, saw the amount of pissed off people, and adjusted their plans on-the-fly to accommodate.

This time around, they have their plan set in stone that they already announced MONTHS AND MONTHS ago. Way before most of the Legion information was even coming out.

Did you miss the part where I had quit by that point? They announced no flight ever and I gave up. I moved on with my life and didn't look up anything WoW related at all.

Legion is no more set in stone than WoD was. We have the same wishy washy crap from the Devs not committing to anything.

Until flight is available and doesn't require the entire xpac to be completed first... Blizzard does not get my money.

[muffinss]

Blizzard is being purposefully ambiguous once more about their intentions so a lot of players will be shocked and there will be a backlash regarding patch finder part 1. The fact that there is a part one implies there are more parts. And part one of Legion patch finder is more grindy than than the entire Draenor pathfinder achievement.

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Nope.

They didn't release it in patch 6.2 because they tried to remove flying from the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVdiA87Gtb8
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17597939626

Ok? Your first quote you quoted me about the patch states me stating 6.2.2, the very patch you listed to inform me that they released it in 6.2.2.

But ok.

The op I quoted stated blizzard promised flying in a patch and he implied they never delivered. Well they did. With 6.2.2.

They also stated there might not be flying at all if the community is fine with it. Obviously the community wasn't and they released the patch that made flying possible again.

As I stated in my post that you didn't quote my second part, they shouldn't take forever releasing it in legion. Instead of waiting for the final major content patch they should release the achievement unlock with the first major patch after release.

[Axphism]

I'm not convinced they have learned anything.

And they changed their minds last time... twice. We were promised flight int he first major content patch. I didn't like it but I accepted it. How did that go?

Fool me once...

Fair enough. I choose to believe they have a plan in place but I suppose I can't fault you for how you're seeing things.

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Did you miss the part where I had quit by that point? They announced no flight ever and I gave up. I moved on with my life and didn't look up anything WoW related at all.

Legion is no more set in stone than WoD was. We have the same wishy washy crap from the Devs not committing to anything.

Until flight is available and doesn't require the entire xpac to be completed first... Blizzard does not get my money.

Yes, I apparently did miss the part that you had quit by then. My apologies!

[Funky Kong]

This thread is cancer. It just won't go away.

[Bun-Bun]

Fair enough. I choose to believe they have a plan in place but I suppose I can't fault you for how you're seeing things.

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Yes, I apparently did miss the part that you had quit by then. My apologies!

You sir are the first respectable debater I have encountered on this subject.

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This thread is cancer. It just won't go away.

Until Blizzard pulls their heads out of their asses it never will, nor should it.

[Thimagryn]

The difference is that WoW hasn't had the vanilla experience since the moment TBC launched. Flying has been in the game since the moment TBC launched. Vanilla legacy players are asking for something that hasn't existed for a solid decade. Flying players are asking for something they've HAVE had for nearly a decade.

I feel your pain about wanting a Vanilla server, but the comparison is way off.

It's much closer than gating content as you suggested this is. Flying is still available to you. It hasn't been taken away, only locked behind an achievement system (maybe we should call these attunements?). This tells me your concerns and criticisms are based on trying to bypass a system put in place to gate the convenience, as again I point out this is not content (any more than you would consider Heirlooms or extra bagspace to be content).

The fact that you want the convenience of flight during your leveling and initial exploration of Legion doesn't justify it being available. Imagine if I said EXP requirements in Legion should be reduced by 30% like they do at the end of each expansion. Or if I said Heirlooms should scale to 110 without requiring Valor upgrades. If you disagree, is it because you don't understand my personal plight? Or maybe these are just bad ideas.

I think your opinion is absolutely valid. Flying is important to you. As far as I see it, this gating system is a nuisance. I don't think it's such a problem that we can't overcome it though. I can see the cause for complaint, but looking at it from an outsiders POV, this is nothing more than a minor issue that is easily resolved through a bit of elbow grease. We already had this in place in WoD and it's been a better solution than not having flight at all. This isn't 'taking it in the ass'.

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Then why is flying being gated like it is content? Flight is a tool to reach content faster or just for fun.

Why is flight being gated by multiple reps (and who know what else) while the rep requirements for Suramar dungeons is far more lenient?

The requirements for flight is 'do all open world content'. The convenience of flight is designed to bypass content. While it is a nuisance to achieve, I think it's a fair compromise to unlocking a system that otherwise lets you bypass the actual content.

I'm not against bypassing content. I leveled to 100 in 5 hours using EXP pots and Bonus Objective turnins. I'm a power gamer who will try to find the most efficient leveling options; whether it's finding and grinding a rare spawn, doing dungeons over-and-over, or doing rep grinds to unlock that one item that boosts EXP. But I'm not talking about what I want or how I play. If you want to know why flying is gated, it's because Blizzard is against bypassing content using flight.

[Bun-Bun]

I think your opinion is absolutely valid. Flying is important to you. As far as I see it, this gating system is a nuisance. I don't think it's such a problem that we can't overcome it though. I can see the cause for complaint, but looking at it from an outsiders POV, this is nothing more than a minor issue that is easily resolved through a bit of elbow grease. We already had this in place in WoD and it's been a better solution than not having flight at all. This isn't 'taking it in the ass'.

If you can understand that flying is important to us then understand this: Pathfinder is more than a nuisance, it is a deal breaker. It negates any reason to play. I want flight to enjoy the very content needed to unlock flight. It worked in WoD only because of the way the situation was handled from the beginning. They had the opportunity to do it right this time but are actively choosing, again, to ignore player feedback.

So Blizzard wont get my money until they stop with these shenanigans.

[Axphism]

If you can understand that flying is important to us then understand this: Pathfinder is more than a nuisance, it is a deal breaker. It negates any reason to play. I want flight to enjoy the very content needed to unlock flight. It worked in WoD only because of the way the situation was handled from the beginning. They had the opportunity to do it right this time but are actively choosing, again, to ignore player feedback.

So Blizzard wont get my money until they stop with these shenanigans.

You know, while the decision to put flight behind a requirement doesn't bother me at all, it really makes me question "why?" People who want to explore and all that will do it with or without flight. They enjoy doing it. People that don't want to, really shouldn't be forced to.

It's a pretty strange concept.

[Bun-Bun]

Ok? Your first quote you quoted me about the patch states me stating 6.2.2, the very patch you listed to inform me that they released it in 6.2.2.

But ok.

The op I quoted stated blizzard promised flying in a patch and he implied they never delivered. Well they did. With 6.2.2.

They also stated there might not be flying at all if the community is fine with it. Obviously the community wasn't and they released the patch that made flying possible again.

As I stated in my post that you didn't quote my second part, they shouldn't take forever releasing it in legion. Instead of waiting for the final major content patch they should release the achievement unlock with the first major patch after release.

That's the kicker "They also stated there might not be flying at all if the community is fine with it."

They withheld their plans on flight and assumed everyone was happy with no flight because ignorance is bliss. Then when then actually announced no flight ever... they got all that backlash. Huh, who would have thought that once they actually tell their players something they would get the real feedback on it. Mind boggling.

They only delivered on their original promise once they dragged everyone through that snaffoo,

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You know, while the decision to put flight behind a requirement doesn't bother me at all, it really makes me question "why?" People who want to explore and all that will do it with or without flight. They enjoy doing it. People that don't want to, really shouldn't be forced to.

It's a pretty strange concept.

Exactly.

I have nothing against "unlocking" flight. But pathfinder is too much.

Incorporate it into the story, have some objective for each zone (that isn't complete all content of said zone) that unlocks flight for that zone and have some lore based mechanics that prohibit flight in those zones. And like someone else said, have some fly and no-fly zones. Doesn't have to be the entire world. Then when world quests rotate to a zone I don't like doing without flight I can choose not to do it.

[Thimagryn]

If you can understand that flying is important to us then understand this: Pathfinder is more than a nuisance, it is a deal breaker. It negates any reason to play. I want flight to enjoy the very content needed to unlock flight. It worked in WoD only because of the way the situation was handled from the beginning. They had the opportunity to do it right this time but are actively choosing, again, to ignore player feedback.

So Blizzard wont get my money until they stop with these shenanigans.

Then unsub. It was my suggestion to the pro-flight crowd prior to the unlocking system.

If it's a dealbreaker, then it's obvious that this game no longer has what you want in the way that you want it. This has been the case for pro-Vanilla crowd for quite some time, so join the club.

[clevin]

Ok people who have no interest in compromising are probably people Blizzard Devs really don't bother to listen to. Neither will I.

we have no interest in compromises because NO ONE has demonstrated a good, evidence based reason to alter flight from what it was until the end of MoP. All of the 'reasons' have been shot down multiple times and we're basically left with "Because the team wants to do it" which is no reason at all.

[Bun-Bun]

Then unsub. It's been the most effective way to get Blizz to change their ways. It was my suggestion to the pro-flight crowd prior to the unlocking system.

I thought I made that clear already.... I quit a long time ago.

[Mafic]

If you can understand that flying is important to us then understand this: Pathfinder is more than a nuisance, it is a deal breaker. It negates any reason to play. I want flight to enjoy the very content needed to unlock flight. It worked in WoD only because of the way the situation was handled from the beginning. They had the opportunity to do it right this time but are actively choosing, again, to ignore player feedback.

So Blizzard wont get my money until they stop with these shenanigans.

WoD Pathfinder is moderately simple.

Patchfinder is way more grindy and that is part 1.

The bottleneck with WoD pathfinder was for many players the Pit daily and Tanaan rep.

http://www.wowhead.com/guides/achiev...ing-in-draenor

Legion's patchfinder bottle necks are the emissary quests that reward rep, class quests, and world quests.

http://legion.wowhead.com/achievemen...inder-part-one

[Thimagryn]

Incorporate it into the story, have some objective for each zone (that isn't complete all content of said zone) that unlocks flight for that zone and have some lore based mechanics that prohibit flight in those zones. And like someone else said, have some fly and no-fly zones. Doesn't have to be the entire world. Then when world quests rotate to a zone I don't like doing without flight I can choose not to do it.

It's always going to be a shifting goal post. You might be satisfied with this, but then someone else gets frustrated that X zone is no-fly and they hate being dismounted trying to cross from one zone to another. Maybe they would rather be satisfied getting it done and over with on one character and have flight available everywhere, on all characters. It's just unfortunate that you and few others here are the ones affected most by this particular situation.

[SirCowdog]

Playing the game you mean yea?

Flappy bird is "playing the game", but it's still garbage. Likewise monotonous, mindless daily or mob grinds are also garbage. I expect better out of a dev team as experienced and well-funded as Blizzard.

Ive never said that is not the case

But you imply it with every word that you post. Don't split hairs with me.

[Bun-Bun]

It's always going to be a shifting goal post. You might be satisfied with this, but then someone else gets frustrated that X zone is no-fly and they hate being dismounted trying to cross from one zone to another. Maybe they would rather be satisfied getting it done and over with on one character and have flight available everywhere, on all characters. It's just unfortunate that you and few others here are the ones affected most by this particular situation.

So then have the all encompassing pathfinder achievement available for those that want to unlock it and have flight everywhere on all characters.

I believe I said that earlier in the thread and no where did I say remove the achievement and its reward. Give players more choice and more reasonable path to getting flight on their main. Altoholics love pathfinder and I can understand that. I never have more than one toon at max level so the reward is not that great to me.

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WoD Pathfinder is moderately simple.

Patchfinder is way more grindy and that is part 1.

The bottleneck with WoD pathfinder was for many players the Pit daily and Tanaan rep.

http://www.wowhead.com/guides/achiev...ing-in-draenor

Legion's patchfinder bottle necks are the emissary quests that reward rep, class quests, and world quests.

http://legion.wowhead.com/achievemen...inder-part-one

I'm not sure if your trying to counter argue when I already agree with you?

[SirCowdog]

The fact that you want the convenience of flight during your leveling and

Stop...just stop.

You've made a whole bunch of false assumptions with your post, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since you seem to be fairly new to the argument.

So, before you post again, take some things into consideration:

1) No one is seriously asking for flight during leveling(although there are some specific examples of how it could work that way).
2) It is not about wanting to bypass or skip content. It's about wanting flight to be included as PART of the content, similar to the past 8 years before WoD.
3) Locking flight behind a wall of requirements that includes doing virtually everything you would use flight on is inherently flawed.
4) The gating is dis-proportionally large when compared to how flight was previously unlocked.
5) If the content is strong enough, the method of getting to that content will not matter(you have to land to do it anyway).


There's more to it than that, of course(~300 pages, sans blatant namecalling, if you care to dig through it). But lets be clear about what we're talking about instead of making assumptions about what people believe.

[Axphism]

Then unsub. It was my suggestion to the pro-flight crowd prior to the unlocking system.

If it's a dealbreaker, then it's obvious that this game no longer has what you want in the way that you want it. This has been the case for pro-Vanilla crowd for quite some time, so join the club.

Considering how things are looking for that "pro-vanilla" crowd now, I'm not sure you give good advice.

The fact that you gave that same advice to the "pro-flight" crowd before they put in the Pathfinding stuff, once again your advice seems to be flawed...

Looks more like, people should speak out against the things they dislike because in at least one occasion they completely changed it, and on another they very much appear to be in the process of changing it.

[SirCowdog]

Then unsub. It was my suggestion to the pro-flight crowd prior to the unlocking system.

If it's a dealbreaker, then it's obvious that this game no longer has what you want in the way that you want it. This has been the case for pro-Vanilla crowd for quite some time, so join the club.

Yeah, unfortunately it appears to be the only thing Blizzard actually listens to. I suspect it's what caused them to reverse their decision on the "no flying ever again" stance. I would also add that, in addition to unsubbing, people also not pre-order or buy Legion until flying is available. I know it sucks to miss out on that launch experience, but the only way we're going to get flight in at 7.1 or sooner is by speaking with our wallets.