Troll models in 6.2.

[Zulkhan]

I dont like the bulking up, i always liked the darkspearmales to be slender and muscular
there's enough hulking going on with the other races

Except their muscles completely disappear, exactly for how incredibly slender they are. They're just not a good representation of Jungle Trolls. Despite the RTS graphics, Trolls looked much more intimidating in WC3 and didn't look "thin" at all but, on the other hand, not bulky either. In fact, along the Darkspear models you had the Ice and Forest Trolls who were actually bulky, making you easily understand the difference between them.

[Ramz]

i've seen it and i still don't like it. make arms more slender from the other side then, but not broader. i like their slender arms.
its bad enough that they've bulked up elves.
i support some butt and the extended heels though

It was effort to even this disproportion :



From the side the arm looked board, but from front/behind thin. That was just too odd, and therefore there was need to made their muscles more 3D.

The tweak wasn't that drastic, he still doesn't look like orc or space goat, he is still slender, but looks convinceable as warrior, someone who could take on the orc, or other enemies, as we know they're capable. Becuase trolls aren't just spellcasters and witch doctors, they're a fighters too.

And secondly here is a nice reference :



And I'd like to re-visit textures to get same effect.

[Zazajin]

I personally disagree with bulking up the Troll male model, I like them being scrawny and wiry, other than the Forsaken there aren't any other Horde races that are slim, I prefer being able to play a slimmer character myself because Orcs, Taurens and to a lesser extent Blood Elves are too bulky.

[Ramz]

I personally disagree with bulking up the Troll male model, I like them being scrawny and wiry, other than the Forsaken there aren't any other Horde races that are slim, I prefer being able to play a slimmer character myself because Orcs, Taurens and to a lesser extent Blood Elves are too bulky.

But they're not bulky, they remain slim. As I said it's mere correction of their current model where their arms from various points of view look different.
Now it's more anatomically correct, and secondly. Trolls are still described to be muscular and strong, they're also warrior nation which has headhunters and berserkers.

Now the model is on pair with Vol'Jin's model.

Just like many troll players the reason why I rolled troll male was becuase they're not the muscle mountain that orc or Tauren is, however they're still capable and strong, so the model should show it.

[Oggudrai]

Furthermore, while I can empathize with those that wouldn't want it bulked up a lot, if at all, from what we had originally, the fact is that the new model removed most of the concentrated regions of bulk/tone the old Troll male had and is practically barren or anatomically inaccurate in terms of muscle-definition on their limbs.

So either way, the current model in live I do feel needs to be bulked up somewhat and/or get more toned musculature in the textures.

[A dot Ham]

This is just about the only complaint I see pop up on a somewhat regular basis, that (while it doesn't effect me) I definitely sympathize with. You guys have been vocal and organized with this presenting very clear feedback... and nothing. Its a shame really.

Its almost a giant middle finger to all feedback really. Because when people see the overwhelming amount of constructive feedback and see no action taken, it makes people unlikely to submit their own feedback, because if this doesn't get seen or acted on, why would anything else?

[Oggudrai]

I appreciate it Partysaurus... you also bring up a damned good point that I hadn't considered... Even worse is that feedback on the Nelf models garnered even more of a following in its own thread on here, so it's an attitude that's quite pervasive when it comes to the handling of the revamped model project overall.

Even just communicating with us would do wonders, even if ETA's for fixes couldnt be given at the moment.

[Ramz]

I appreciate it Partysaurus... you also bring up a damned good point that I hadn't considered... Even worse is that feedback on the Nelf models garnered even more of a following in its own thread on here, so it's an attitude that's quite pervasive when it comes to the handling of the revamped model project overall.

Even just communicating with us would do wonders, even if ETA's for fixes couldnt be guaranteed.

Yeah exactly I just don't understand why it's such a big problem to select ONE person to do small fixes. Even an amateur like me who is crawling with 3D modeling and yet I was able to do simple fixes.

Like increasing the volume of mesh that is on certain body parts, and today I was toying with texture and I managed to deal with baldness beneth the braid and add eyecolour back.

I'd like to re-do entire body but I'm not really familiar with doing this advanced texture specially not in blender, so it will take time.

I'm just saying that those very basic changes like bulking up troll male and the base hair texture it's not even a matter of whole day work.

The re-modeling on the mesh took me roughly 30 -45 mins, and the thair 3 mins.

[Ramz]

Trust me, nothing sucks more than playing a female worgen. Female troll is amazing, she has far more "savage cute style" than the worgen. For me, the female worgen is an angry chihuahua dog. Female troll now look close to the many pieces of art i have seen about trolls in WoW. But sadly, the male troll is still stuck in the ugly-boring looking, they no way close to the trolls from Warcraft 3 or even the trolls that are in fan art or blizzard art. Male trolls needs tons of work.

Edit: The female troll is so awesome now in WOD, that i have created more female trolls than blood elves/Humans, i think is as good like the female dwarf, who also got a big improve from the old models.

Oh I agree Troll females are for me the best female new model in game now in fact most of their flaws are just a bugs, and only one hairstyle lacks base hair (the jungle flower one). It's the troll male that was not the best in delivery.

Personally I'd enhance their melee animation to feel more swift and more troll-like as in vanilla time they were one of the last models added and therefore their animations were kinda "default".

And I'd increase weapon size slightly.

But model as it is is nearly perfect. And I was mostly using it to compare on how troll male looks bad when standing beside her.
And I have small army of troll females too :> warrior, priest, druid, rogue, and I even race changed my only belf mage to troll female. xD

[Aleksej89]

Such effort..... are you trolling? xD

[Oggudrai]

For my own part I'm 110% sincere. :P

I certainly feel like I'm being Trolled by Blizzard though...

[Alayea]

The interview answers were, alas predictably, disappointing.

[Ramz]

Well I was one of the people that had a chance to write on MMO-Champion question for mr. Chris Robinson ("Will there be finishing tweaks for new character models in the Legion?") but alas seems that Chaud didn't forward it, or there was no answer for that.

(I also asked about Vol'Jin and Darkspear fate, but instead we learned there will be more of Khadgar >.>)

[Alayea]

Well I was one of the people that had a chance to write on MMO-Champion question for mr. Chris Robinson ("Will there be finishing tweaks for new character models in the Legion?") but alas seems that Chaud didn't forward it, or there was no answer for that.

(I also asked about Vol'Jin and Darkspear fate, but instead we learned there will be more of Khadgar >.>)

I saw yours on page 3 after I had posted my own question there and, if nothing else, I had the dimmest hope yours would get answered.

Nope.jpg

(Also, wish Khadgar was sent back to Shattrath where he belongs. >.>)

[Eazy]

It was effort to even this disproportion :



From the side the arm looked board, but from front/behind thin. That was just too odd, and therefore there was need to made their muscles more 3D.

Do you even lift bro?

Seriously, did you even see your arm from that perspective? Arm has not the same thickness in every point. Arms from the front always look skinny, but from the side - not. That's anatomy...



Comapre his right arm from the second photo with his right arm from the first photo.

[Ramz]

Do you even lift bro?

Seriously, did you even see your arm from that perspective? Arm has not the same thickness in every point. Arms from the front always look skinny, but from the side - not. That's anatomy...



Comapre his right arm from the second photo with his right arm from the first photo.

There is a difference but not THIS big.

And my correction is accurate don't you worry I am artist and I did a lot of anatomy research.

And secondly Troll male didn't had any muscle visible on the inner side of his arm, there is a flat line, while there should be a curvature showing that there are muscles as it's shown here :

[Eazy]

-snip-

Well, trolls weren't so massive, they were always kinda skinny(I don't count "mutants" from ToTK), with a bit muscle. They're agile race, not warriors like orcs. Though I agree, they should've made their muscles more visible.

[Oggudrai]

Well, trolls weren't so massive, they were always kinda skinny(I don't count "mutants" from ToTK), with a bit muscle. They're agile race, not warriors like orcs. Though I agree, they should've made their muscles more visible.

I prefer the term "lithely muscular", in the lore they are quite a bit stronger than they look. Chris G. Robinson himself even described them as "super fierce warriors", and as for the "ToTK mutants", even the headhunter wasn't really skinny:



but at any rate... We agree that there's too little muscle showing on live, and arguably, on the old.

On that note, I just finished a sketch of a character sheet with the kind of body build I'd suggest they try to bring out more in the Troll male:



Anatomically I know there's some weirdnesses here and there, and the pose is a smidge bit off. I tried to be more accurate in how they stand compared to the old model than the one in live, so the right arm seen from behind droops a bit lower than I meant to. By the same token I made the arms a lil bit too hort from the front, but I think people will get the idea.

[Ramz]

Well, trolls weren't so massive, they were always kinda skinny(I don't count "mutants" from ToTK), with a bit muscle. They're agile race, not warriors like orcs. Though I agree, they should've made their muscles more visible.

Trolls are lanky not skinny. They're still a warrior nation much like orcs. They're fiece and agile figthers that practice cappoeira, so their build should show it.
I also wanted to touch textures so when you place troll male next to their female counterpart they have identical quality.

I don't actually expect for Blizzard to implement it, I'm just doing it for fun, and becuase I'm tired of waiting I decided to do it on my own, and I just did first step.

Next will be texturing, and another rigging and animation.

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

If only the character artists were as passionate as some of the people here