Poll: Subsidies for illegals

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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...igrants-224205

    should the American people pay for subsidies for illegal immigrants?
    Absolutely not.

    Socialism only works if its for native citizens, otherwise you will have to deal with an influx of freeloaders, kind of like whats happening in the EU atm.

    Im not sure why people think illegal immigrants should have the rights of true citizens? they are lawbreakers by virtue of being 'illegal' immigrants.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Not sure how it would reduce diversity when it was talking about posting FALSE information, and that would apply to both the conservatives and liberals in the groups. Conservatives who posted true stuff would be completely safe.
    Doesn't matter if they post false information or not. Them posting false information actually helps you prove them wrong. Talking about "banning" (and yes I know it was hyperbolic and in jest but the sentiment behind it was real) because they have differing opinions than you is idiotic.
    Whaleshark /spits on your science.

  3. #43
    They don't even want to pay for it for themselves.

  4. #44
    Old God Captain N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irefusetodie View Post
    Doesn't matter if they post false information or not. Them posting false information actually helps you prove them wrong. Talking about "banning" (and yes I know it was hyperbolic and in jest but the sentiment behind it was real) because they have differing opinions than you is idiotic.
    It has nothing to do with banning people for having different opinions. Most of us are OK with different opinons. The issue both Orbitus and I were referring to is those who intentionally post false information, double down on it when they're proven wrong, and then resort to name calling and personal attacks. Basically eliminating the false information at the source...whether it be something from Fox News, MSNBC, Breitbart, or Huffington Post.....avoids a lot of shit slinging that occurs when actual proof is brought against their false info.
    Last edited by Captain N; 2016-06-11 at 11:00 PM. Reason: Word choice for clarity

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Irefusetodie View Post
    Doesn't matter if they post false information or not. Them posting false information actually helps you prove them wrong. Talking about "banning" (and yes I know it was hyperbolic and in jest but the sentiment behind it was real) because they have differing opinions than you is idiotic.
    Posting false information and having it proven wrong is one thing, posting false information having it proven wrong then posting it again and again and again anyways ignoring the fact that it was proven false before is something else.

    Kinda like that one story they posted about Sanders healthcare costing like 13 trillion dollars over 10 years. It was proven wrong to the point the writers had to apologize for their methodology with how horrendously flawed it was and after adjusting their methodology it turned out the plan actually saved us something like $4,000 per person per year over what we have now. Sucks when you have someone post that and get corrected with proof only to have them ignore that and post the exact same lie again later in another thread like it was the truth and they just forgot they were corrected and then watch them do it again in another thread.

    Having someone intentionally posting false information isn't helping anything, it is derailing a thread trying to get others to believe a lie if someone else doesn't notice it in time.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    I think it's a perfectly legitimate question
    It is not a legitimate question. Of course citizens should not pay for the health care of immigrants. The nations that those immigrants came from should pay it. Why should the President (or whatever they call him/her) live in a mansion and make millions while the common Americans pay for his citizen's healthcare? It makes basically zero sense (unless you are the Mexican President).

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    The argument is moot, because if they need to be treated then they go to hospitals, where they will get treated and will cost more. At least with Obamacare they get treated before things get worse, and get more expensive. Unless you want to pass a law where we let people die in hospitals cause Murica?

    Also when we say "illegal immagrats", we mean south Americans and Mexicans. Cause sure as shit we aren't talking about those dirty Canadians with their free heathcare.
    I'm laughing from my hospital bed! Ima stay another day!
    Last edited by dextersmith; 2016-06-11 at 11:02 PM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...igrants-224205

    should the American people pay for subsidies for illegal immigrants?
    You might want go do some research before asking ignorant questions. Illegal immigrants pay over $20 billion per year in federal taxes and over $11 billion per year in state and local taxes. So much for the "American's paying subsidies" hyperbole.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Posting false information and having it proven wrong is one thing, posting false information having it proven wrong then posting it again and again and again anyways ignoring the fact that it was proven false before is something else.

    Kinda like that one story they posted about Sanders healthcare costing like 13 trillion dollars over 10 years. It was proven wrong to the point the writers had to apologize for their methodology with how horrendously flawed it was and after adjusting their methodology it turned out the plan actually saved us something like $4,000 per person per year over what we have now. Sucks when you have someone post that and get corrected with proof only to have them ignore that and post the exact same lie again later in another thread like it was the truth and they just forgot they were corrected and then watch them do it again in another thread.

    Having someone intentionally posting false information isn't helping anything, it is derailing a thread trying to get others to believe a lie if someone else doesn't notice it in time.
    Except it probably wasn't a mistake. It was a "hit job" on Sanders that they knew would stick around even after it was corrected.

    The same thing happened in the third debate between Romney and Obama. The "moderator" actually interrupted the debate to make a "hit" on Romney (I know, incredibly unprofessional but of course (since it was on Romney) she kept her job at CNN). If you watch the video, even Obama was stunned by the unprofessionalism. She apologized and admitted her info was wrong a week later, but no one remembers the correction- they all remember what she did in the debate though.

    That is why you can call a "mistrial" in a case where the jurors are exposed to bad info. The judge knows they might not forget the info even though it was proven to be false, it is human nature.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Alydael View Post
    Except it probably wasn't a mistake. It was a "hit job" on Sanders that they knew would stick around even after it was corrected.

    The same thing happened in the third debate between Romney and Obama. The "moderator" actually interrupted the debate to make a "hit" on Romney (I know, incredibly unprofessional but of course (since it was on Romney) she kept her job at CNN). If you watch the video, even Obama was stunned by the unprofessionalism. She apologized and admitted her info was wrong a week later, but no one remembers the correction- they all remember what she did in the debate though.

    That is why you can call a "mistrial" in a case where the jurors are exposed to bad info. The judge knows they might not forget the info even though it was proven to be false, it is human nature.
    Be that as it may, that lie might be intentional on the part of the writer and should honestly cost them dearly for it. But that wasn't about the article itself, it was just used as an example in regards to this site.

    I have watched someone post that, get corrected with proof only to wait a little while and post that same article again ignoring the fact that they were proven wrong only to get corrected yet again only to wait a little while and post the same article again at which point they couldn't claim they forgot or anything a 3rd time as they were already corrected twice with proof. On this site, they had intentionally lied and spread known false information and that should be seen as trolling or some other infractable or bannable offense.

    As for the writers of those articles, I would like to see laws in place where they are required to spend at least 4 times as much time correcting the articles as they did in spreading it and would require them to attach that correction at the top of the original article itself if posted online and are required to keep that corrected article up for a period of no less than 1 year. And if can be proven they lied intentionally, they should be liable for slander laws. Of course I would like to see election promises to be considered a legally binding contract were if they fail to even attempt at delivering or go against them would be considered felony charges to prevent them from making promises they don't even plan on trying to deliver on or promising one thing to one group and the opposite to another.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Be that as it may, that lie might be intentional on the part of the writer and should honestly cost them dearly for it. But that wasn't about the article itself, it was just used as an example in regards to this site.

    I have watched someone post that, get corrected with proof only to wait a little while and post that same article again ignoring the fact that they were proven wrong only to get corrected yet again only to wait a little while and post the same article again at which point they couldn't claim they forgot or anything a 3rd time as they were already corrected twice with proof. On this site, they had intentionally lied and spread known false information and that should be seen as trolling or some other infractable or bannable offense.

    As for the writers of those articles, I would like to see laws in place where they are required to spend at least 4 times as much time correcting the articles as they did in spreading it and would require them to attach that correction at the top of the original article itself if posted online and are required to keep that corrected article up for a period of no less than 1 year. And if can be proven they lied intentionally, they should be liable for slander laws. Of course I would like to see election promises to be considered a legally binding contract were if they fail to even attempt at delivering or go against them would be considered felony charges to prevent them from making promises they don't even plan on trying to deliver on or promising one thing to one group and the opposite to another.
    I agree with you. I wish people were held more accountable for what they say and write, especially when it harms another person. It is a difficult thing to prove though. How can you prove it was a purposeful "hit" or a mistake? It is almost impossible to prove, unfortunately.

  12. #52
    Why would anyone be against the option of them paying for insurance?
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Alydael View Post
    I agree with you. I wish people were held more accountable for what they say and write, especially when it harms another person. It is a difficult thing to prove though. How can you prove it was a purposeful "hit" or a mistake? It is almost impossible to prove, unfortunately.
    About the only way to prove it is if you can find some memo or something that is ordering or implying for them to or if they flaw in their logic is so profound that is goes beyond entry level mistakes.

    Like that one where they tried treating all spending like it was new spending and ignoring all else. That is a mistake even most high school dropouts wouldn't make.

    Edit: At some point, that level of stupidity would have to count to some level of criminal negligence when their lies effect others.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    Sure, if we have bans in place for also posting false information like Satimy did.
    Its not false, the entire medical industry is subsidized by the taxpayer. It may be against your world view of open borders, but its not false.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain N View Post
    If we banned people for posting false information we'd lose 99% of our Conservative posters.
    Truth is subjective, especially to our friendly left wing posters. If you dont think the medical insurance is subsidized then you need to read a book.

  15. #55
    Old God Captain N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    Truth is subjective, especially to our friendly left wing posters. If you dont think the medical insurance is subsidized then you need to read a book.
    Right after you read your own source.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain N View Post
    It has nothing to do with banning people for having different opinions. Most of us are OK with different opinons. The issue both Orbitus and I were referring to is those who intentionally post false information, double down on it when they're proven wrong, and then resort to name calling and personal attacks. Basically eliminating the false information at the source...whether it be something from Fox News, MSNBC, Breitbart, or Huffington Post.....avoids a lot of shit slinging that occurs when actual proof is brought against their false info.
    The trend of left wing posters on this site is to label anything they disagree with as racist and bigoted and then generally follow up with character assassination. There isn't 1 subsidy involved in Obamacare, the entire thing is a subsidy. While illegal immigrants don't qualify for 1 subsidy doesnt mean allowing them to participate wouldn't allow them to benefit from the taxpayer in other ways. Not to mention this is just the first step in granting them access to all subsidies.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain N View Post
    Right after you read your own source.
    Your lack of knowledge on how the medical and insurance industry works makes you unqualified to have a legitimate opinion on the matter in question.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Mentia View Post
    I wouldn't expect any less from California. I hope the next big earthquake breaks that state off the continent.
    Considering California is the biggest economy in the US by a fairly large margin, I don't think you want California to leave the union. I mean, unless you want the US economy to tank. California isn't like Mississippi or some other shitty southern state that the US wouldn't even notice being gone.
    Last edited by nonameelf; 2016-06-11 at 11:42 PM.

  18. #58
    Old God Captain N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    The trend of left wing posters on this site is to label anything they disagree with as racist and bigoted and then generally follow up with character assassination. There isn't 1 subsidy involved in Obamacare, the entire thing is a subsidy. While illegal immigrants don't qualify for 1 subsidy doesnt mean allowing them to participate wouldn't allow them to benefit from the taxpayer in other ways. Not to mention this is just the first step in granting them access to all subsidies.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Your lack of knowledge on how the medical and insurance industry works makes you unqualified to have a legitimate opinion on the matter in question.
    While I'm quite familiar with your bait tactics -- As we both got infracted the last time you attempted this. You used a source claiming that California was offering Obamacare to illegal citizens but not providing them with the subsidiary. This is well and good and unless you can prove that they're going to benefit from other subsidiaries what you're stating has no factual evidence.

    Your ability to make an argument on the "Maybe" "Could Have" "Well it's possible" because you say so is the false information Fugus is referring to. You're attempting to create some fantasy world that you cannot back up with factual evidence and now you're shit slinging after doubling down on your false information. You're doing exactly what you quoted me as saying those in your position do often.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Irefusetodie View Post
    Yep. The death of intellectual and ideological diversity is always a good thing.
    But it isn't ideological diversity when they are posting clear falsehoods. It is clear to see that Satimy didn't read his own fucking source and then claimed that they were getting subsidies when they weren't.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    Its not false, the entire medical industry is subsidized by the taxpayer. It may be against your world view of open borders, but its not false.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Truth is subjective, especially to our friendly left wing posters. If you dont think the medical insurance is subsidized then you need to read a book.
    Here you are, doubling down on an already bullshit post when we already proved you wrong. Get the fuck out of here.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    But it isn't ideological diversity when they are posting clear falsehoods. It is clear to see that Satimy didn't read his own fucking source and then claimed that they were getting subsidies when they weren't.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Here you are, doubling down on an already bullshit post when we already proved you wrong. Get the fuck out of here.
    Where did I claim Illegals were getting the particular Obamacare subsidy? The article talks about illegals getting accessed to the Obamacare market which is subsidized but wouldn't have access to a particular subsidy thats offered to low income people.

    The poll question is "should the American people pay for subsidies for illegal immigrants?"

    Now wheres the falsehood in asking a question?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    But it isn't ideological diversity when they are posting clear falsehoods. It is clear to see that Satimy didn't read his own fucking source and then claimed that they were getting subsidies when they weren't.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Here you are, doubling down on an already bullshit post when we already proved you wrong. Get the fuck out of here.
    I think you need to take some reading workshops, its clearly not your strong suit. I can pm you some great online schools if youd like.

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