Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[Narokath]

While sipping my midnight tea and checking on the fact that Bay was going to be concatenating his Outlaw stream for youtube, I thought I'd checkout the stream to see what he said mostly about Roll the Bones and what do I discover.

ribthanwa : https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...nes_explained/
ribthanwa : I wrote it

Jesus mate, you have no integrity. Not only did you not write it, trying to pass off that you did to earn brownie points to some streamer is just sad.

[Avikur]

so which talents are you guys finding best for questing/solo rares and dungeons? is SnD competitive? not a fan of RtB, too much RNG

[Wow]

so which talents are you guys finding best for questing/solo rares and dungeons? is SnD competitive? not a fan of RtB, too much RNG

Soloing rares you just use lord ravenholdt and auto win lol. http://legion.wowhead.com/champion=779 "Seal of Ravenholdt
Summons Lord Jorach Ravenholdt to dispatch your foe, instantly damaging your target to 10% of their maximum health. Reduced damage against bosses."

[Mr Draken]

Final boss video for Outlaw second pass.

https://youtu.be/R8jFdpaSksI

[MiZeRoK]

so which talents are you guys finding best for questing/solo rares and dungeons? is SnD competitive? not a fan of RtB, too much RNG

Uhhh, lemme see...

For Leveling: Swordmaster, IRON STOMACH, Cannonball Barrage, SnD

For questing things don't need to be perfect, and SnD is just easier to use and is consistent enough to make leveling both boring yet smooth.

For 110: Ghostly Strike, Elusiveness, Dirty Tricks, Death from Above

Using Ghostly Strike for now for testing, Swordmaster is still fine. Taking Elusiveness and not Iron Stomach as you have a healer now and don't really need the added healing. Death from Above because I believe in Roll the Bones and Marked for Death feels bad for Outlaw with Vigor (REALLY bad for Deep Stratagem as it only rewards 5CP...) or just in general as the uses exist both in combat and out of combat. Out of combat and in steal you MFD something and then RtB, get garbage and wonder why the hell you chose MFD. In combat you either use MFD for back to back Run Throughs (which really need a numbers tuning as they just don't feel very strong) or you try your luck and MFD a RtB and probably still get garbage (60% for a single buff... no thanks).

[Xetenor]

After watching Bay's video on the outlaw second pass, jeez that true bearing spec (swordmaster, anticipation, elusiveness, dirty tricks, alacrity, mark for death) with true bearing is beyond OP LOL like literally unlimited AR spamming haha!! "it's just madness" Def won't make it into the release lol.

[MiZeRoK]

After watching Bay's video on the outlaw second pass, jeez that true bearing spec (swordmaster, anticipation, elusiveness, dirty tricks, alacrity, mark for death) with true bearing is beyond OP LOL like literally unlimited AR spamming haha!! "it's just madness" Def won't make it into the release lol.

But that it's really not that bad, because it won't happen. My problem is that everything else feels underwhelming because it can happen for a small amount of time during a fight, or never. It would be a problem if you could find a way to start a fight with a 5CP True Bearing duration (but you can't guarantee that) so that using the AR duration you could burn rolls on trying to refresh True Bearing but unless your first few RtB is True Bearing, you either waste your Combo Points on RtB trying to get there. When you're in a Heroic Dungeon, bosses are dead well before any of this matters (different in Mythic+) and when you're in a Raid you need a lot of luck to keep this True Bearing rolling for any of this "OP"ness to continue.

[Mafic]

I like how Bay went from "Roll the Bones is fine stop complaining" to..."oh this is broken lol".

The problem with Roll the Bones is as follows:

1. Bad RNG streak and you are stuck with Jolly Roger
2. Forced to fish for True Bearing

Points 1 and 2 is what makes Roll the Bones cancer to use in PVE and hard to balance when you are doing non stop Adrenaline Rush's and Marked For Deaths.

[kindath]

Pardon if this has been discussed but I confess I did not read all 56 pages of this thread. :P

I am looking at a build for Legion. I'm seeing Dirty Tricks gives you Cheap Shot for zero energy? Instant, with no CD listed?
Also Goremaw's Bite and Kingsbane are instant with no energy cost? What's to keep us from spamming any of these?

Cheap shot has never had a cooldown, it has a stealth requirement and stun DRs.

Goremaw's bite has a 1 minute cooldown, Kingsbane has a 45 second cooldown. Also they're the artifact powers for Sub and Assassination respectively, so wrong thread.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Cheap shot has never had a cooldown, it has a stealth requirement and stun DRs.

Goremaw's bite has a 1 minute cooldown, Kingsbane has a 45 second cooldown. Also they're the artifact powers for Sub and Assassination respectively, so wrong thread.

Sorry for the confusion (Wowhead listed them on the Outlaw list) and thanks for the clarification.

[Narokath]

I like how Bay went from "Roll the Bones is fine stop complaining" to..."oh this is broken lol".

The problem with Roll the Bones is as follows:

1. Bad RNG streak and you are stuck with Jolly Roger
2. Forced to fish for True Bearing

Points 1 and 2 is what makes Roll the Bones cancer to use in PVE and hard to balance when you are doing non stop Adrenaline Rush's and Marked For Deaths.

I think one of the problems is how we're double dipping with Blurred Time and True Bearing, the fact that cooldowns such as Marked for Death and Adrenaline Rush get brought into the equation really mess up your damage. True Bearing in my opinion is the most overpowered of the buffs as you effectively gain proportionally better versions of Buried Treasure and Grand Melee combined. With Shark Infested Waters coming in a close second, as it's increasing your overall damage by around 30% depending on your current crit.

I find most of my issues extend into the frequency of the buffs, or buff counts rather than the actual buffs themselves. There's a plethora of noticeable issues and big ones that he just did not talk about and are explained in the Outlaw Feedback thread on the Battle.net forums.

[Mafic]

Even if they nerfed True Bearing..that isn't going to stop fishing for True Bearing.. Because lets face it...if you are stuck with Jolly Roger you are going to re-roll anyways....

And lets assume they remove True Bearing from the rolls....players are going to fish for Buried Treasure given how average Run Through is and will try to use Between the Eyes while Buried Treasure is up.

At some point they have to throw in the towel and bring it back to reasonable level.

There are many issues with Outlaw as a spec, but since it has been released on alpha since November of last year...it has seen very little iteration.. This is baffling to me as the spec needed major iterations to reach a reasonable play level IMO.

I mean the talent trees are dry and very ordinary for Rogues. For example with Outlaw movement talents, Bay was trying to play up Hit and Run and Acrobatic Strikes...but Grappling Hook was clearly the best choice on that tier. Increased ranged on melee attacks matters why? When you have a spec with a ranged combo point builder, ranged finisher, and the ability to pick Kspree or Cannon Ball Barrage (35 yard range that is also instant lol).

[Lorentz]

Even if they nerfed True Bearing..that isn't going to stop fishing for True Bearing.. Because lets face it...if you are stuck with Jolly Roger you are going to re-roll anyways....

And lets assume they remove True Bearing from the rolls....players are going to fish for Buried Treasure given how average Run Through is and will try to use Between the Eyes while Buried Treasure is up.

At some point they have to throw in the towel and bring it back to reasonable level.

There are many issues with Outlaw as a spec, but since it has been released on alpha since November of last year...it has seen very little iteration.. This is baffling to me as the spec needed major iterations to reach a reasonable play level IMO.

I mean the talent trees are dry and very ordinary for Rogues. For example with Outlaw movement talents, Bay was trying to play up Hit and Run and Acrobatic Strikes...but Grappling Hook was clearly the best choice on that tier. Increased ranged on melee attacks matters why? When you have a spec with a ranged combo point builder, ranged finisher, and the ability to pick Kspree or Cannon Ball Barrage (35 yard range that is also instant lol).

Even if you are not going to fish for True Bearing just think how unreliable Outlaw cooldowns are. Any raid encounter basically demands cooldown at certain timemarks and this spec has absolutelty no way of doing in rather than holding for a really long thus losing damage.

[Zoyt]

they should just bring back ruthlessness and remove true bearing from the game or at least add it to blunderbuss/pistol shot

[Mafic]

Even if you are not going to fish for True Bearing just think how unreliable Outlaw cooldowns are. Any raid encounter basically demands cooldown at certain timemarks and this spec has absolutelty no way of doing in rather than holding for a really long thus losing damage.

Yeah this is why I can see a lot of players going with SnD. The only thing you have to account for is Blurred Time from Adrenaline Rush.

- - - Updated - - -

they should just bring back ruthlessness and remove true bearing from the game or at least add it to blunderbuss/pistol shot

That would be the smart thing to do...but this is Blizz we are talking about lol...they will spend more time trying to re-invent the wheel haha.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

So if we roll with Outlaw, do we get to sing pirate songs? In game?



What about rum on raid nights?

[Mafic]

I honestly don't see how anyone could play the spec without Anticipation. I am not sure what Blizz is thinking to be honest.

[Roiids]

I used Swordmaster/Deeper Strategem/Death from above for leveling. I liked it.

[Mafic]

I used Swordmaster/Deeper Strategem/Death from above for leveling. I liked it.

That is fine but when Blizz nerfs it because of True Bearing and back to back DFAs it leaves the spec back to square one.

Without Swordmaster I don't see Deeper Strategem working with the other two level 15 talents.

[Roiids]

That is fine but when Blizz nerfs it because of True Bearing and back to back DFAs it leaves the spec back to square one.

Without Swordmaster I don't see Deeper Strategem working with the other two level 15 talents.

I honestly don't think it will get nerfed. Its strong when you get it but the chances of getting it a lot aren't that high. I think thats kind of the nuts and bolts of the spec. Sometimes you are OP, sometimes you feel weak.