Arms Legion Discussion

[Archimtiros]

Ouch someones ego is hurt

How exactly would your child-like scrawl hurt any ego but your own? It certainly has no effect on my sense of self-worth. Really now, if you're going to actively try to insult someone, at least put a little effort into it.

[Deleted]

How exactly would your child-like scrawl hurt any ego but your own? It certainly has no effect on my sense of self-worth. Really now, if you're going to actively try to insult someone, at least put a little effort into it.

You are the one trying to insult. How is my grammar to start with insulting to you, so u had to comment on it? Is it somehow related to topic or u just have to be a dickhead to ppl for no reason? I know my grammar is bad cuz English is not my first language, I'm from Croatia, and in school, i had German and French classes. So I'm curious what urge u had to bring it up in such demeaning way? I though ppl from England can understand when foreigners try to speak english, I knew I would if someone try to speak Croatian. But you are just bad person, trying to insult others on every small thing u can find. Hey I'm also Jewish, are you gonna insult me now cuz I'm not Christian like you?

[Archimtiros]

are you gonna insult me now cuz I'm not Christian like you?

*Get's angry at person for demeaning their lazy way of typing because it's "not their fault", proceeds to attack religious affiliations without cause* The hypocrisy is real, but for the record I'm not Christian and wouldn't care even if I was. Shots fired... and missed.

However and for the record, slang and shorthand-text type like cuz, i , or u, is not a result of learning English as a second, third, or even fourth language. Poor sentence structure or spelling could be understandable, but that's just plain lazy. While you may have been insulted by what I said, it was a statement of fact and not even directly aimed at you - your follow on comment however, was directly aimed at me, unfounded and poorly thought out as that.

Pointing out a fault isn't a matter of ego, though your free to call me a dick because of it if you want. This forum is held up as a place of information and learning, and doesn't need to be dragged down by lazy people. Sorry you so obviously felt insulted over a minor quip, but if you don't want to be ridiculed, then put in more effort; if you're never told you're doing something wrong, you'll never improve.

[Deleted]

*Get's angry at person for demeaning their lazy way of typing because it's "not their fault", proceeds to attack religious affiliations without cause* The hypocrisy is real, but for the record I'm not Christian and wouldn't care even if I was. Shots fired... and missed.

However and for the record, slang and shorthand-text type like cuz, i , or u, is not a result of learning English as a second, third, or even fourth language. Poor sentence structure or spelling could be understandable, but that's just plain lazy. While you may have been insulted by what I said, it was a statement of fact and not even directly aimed at you - your follow on comment however, was directly aimed at me, unfounded and poorly thought out as that.

Pointing out a fault isn't a matter of ego, though your free to call me a dick because of it if you want. This forum is held up as a place of information and learning, and doesn't need to be dragged down by lazy people. If you don't want to be ridiculed, then put in more effort; if you're never told you're doing something wrong, you'll never improve.

First of all, u were referring to my grammar not only slang. And if u have a problem with that u can send me PM, or just ignore my topics, otherwise, it looks offensive to me or other ppl who didn't learn English in school. U can for once in your life get over yourself and not be a dickhead to ppl for such stupid reason. I type in slang not cuz I'm lazy, its just habit which I got from playing games for many years. If I'm a teacher in the school I would type "cause". I'm trying to get my input on things that happening with Arms warrior atm, wasn't insulting anyone, trying to listen what others have to say and respond politely. You on another hand just waiting the opportunity to jump someone, like a bully in high school. I wonder why Sarri didn't bring up my poor English. Cuz he is a better person then you, and im already getting all information I need from him anyway, love his stream and how helpful he is, so ill just put you on ignore cuz I don't need toxic ppl in my life.

[Archimtiros]

First of all, u were referring to my grammar not only slang. And if u have a problem with that u can send me PM, or just ignore my topics, otherwise, it looks offensive to me or other ppl who didn't learn English in school. U can for once in your life get over yourself and not be a dickhead to ppl for such stupid reason. I type in slang not cuz I'm lazy, its just habit which I got from playing games for many years. If I'm a teacher in the school I would type "cause". I'm trying to get my input on things that happening with Arms warrior atm, wasn't insulting anyone, trying to listen what others have to say and respond politely. You on another hand just waiting the opportunity to jump someone, like a bully in high school. I wonder why Sarri didn't bring up my poor English. Cuz he is a better person then you, and im already getting all information I need from him anyway, love his stream and how helpful he is, so ill just put you on ignore cuz I don't need toxic ppl in my life.

Do you get upset when someone tells you you're playing wrong? Do you ever want to correct the person who parks across two parking spaces when they could just as easily take up one? Do shake your head disappointedly at someone wearing their pants around their ankles with their junk hanging out?

Call me a bully if you want, I don't really care, though I'd dispute the use of the word. You live in a world where people are judged by their actions and how they present themselves. I made a quip, but it wasn't unfounded, and it's not my obligation to protect your feelings. Again, sorry you felt insulted over it, but if you don't want it to happen, then put in more effort; if you're never told you're doing something wrong, you'll never improve - in life and in WoW.

[Ryanite]

So... How about them arms warriors, any news on how the new mastery effects dauntless? Does the fact that you get to use more abilities negate the loss in reset chance?

[Deleted]

Do you get upset when someone tells you you're playing wrong? Do you ever want to correct the person who parks across two parking spaces when they could just as easily take up one? Do shake your head disappointedly at someone wearing their pants around their ankles with their junk hanging out?

Call me a bully if you want, I don't really care, though I'd dispute the use of the word. You live in a world where people are judged by their actions and how they present themselves. I made a quip, but it wasn't unfounded, and it's not my obligation to protect your feelings. Again, sorry you felt insulted over it, but if you don't want it to happen, then put in more effort; if you're never told you're doing something wrong, you'll never improve - in life and in WoW.

Yes, i agree with you, and constructive criticism is welcome. But all this can be solved in PM. Not here where you make a show for everybody else, in the nonrelated topic. This is gaming threads and if u want to correct every person who types in slang, or correct their grammar, better roll up your sleeves and get to work. Also, u were talking about dragging down the forum. And look what are we both doing right now. So ill just stop this charade and not respond anymore.

[Yassy]

Don't feed the troll please.

To be fair he's right. Not every spec/class needs a *heal*. They could give Arms more damage reduction or give them a talent/passive that makes them receive more healing.

There are plenty of ways to give Arms more survivability without just shoehorning in a self heal. Not every class should have a 5 second stun, an 8 Second CC, Self Healing, a DPS cooldown, a damage reduction CD, ETC.

PvP has turned into the shit show it is because of this childish mentality of "I need it because X has it." That's literally what siblings do to each other when they are kids. Arms has been a dominant PvP spec since Vanilla, with and without self healing.

Again to reiterate, if Arms feels like paper in competitive GROUP pvp, then there are more ways to solve that problem aside from giving them self healing.

[Artunias]

It's pretty impossible to comment on much of anything pvp related because of how horrid tuning is across the board. I think self healing on many classes should be toned down.

Touch of Zakajz and Second Wind probably deserve a second look to be more useful, or useful in more situations. I'd also advocate for a short cooldown mitigation ability for arms instead of healing.

[Murlocbait]

I agree that not every class needs a heal - i just cringe a bit whenever I see Ryan get quoted, because then i have to read whatever BS he's posted.

The problem is that a blanket statement like "Arms warriors do not need self-healing" doesn't begin to cover the reality of the situation. There are so many moving parts, and you have to look at what PvE and PvP in 2016 WoW looks like to really talk about it all. It's true that Arms doesn't need self-healing, but for that matter, Holy Priests don't need SELF-healing; and prot Pallies don't need self-healing. But saying that is stupid and unrealistic.

Something like Victory Rush makes leveling so much more enjoyable, while relying on Arms warriors killing shit to keep moving, maintaining momentum as long as you bring the pain, which perfectly plays into what a warrior should be. VR is absolutely one of my favorite abilities warriors ever gained, and I have never felt it made us god-like or anything else. Similarly, Second Wind in MoP was never OP. It never was. If someone couldn't out-damage it, they were having bigger problems than a pretty minor heal that only kicked in at low health. BUT, i don't think it was something that warriors absolutely must have. Arms in PvP should feel like a threat in every situation - and without any kind of healing or mitigation, it is too easy to just shut down.

[meathead]

To be fair he's right. Not every spec/class needs a *heal*. They could give Arms more damage reduction or give them a talent/passive that makes them receive more healing.

There are plenty of ways to give Arms more survivability without just shoehorning in a self heal. Not every class should have a 5 second stun, an 8 Second CC, Self Healing, a DPS cooldown, a damage reduction CD, ETC.

PvP has turned into the shit show it is because of this childish mentality of "I need it because X has it." That's literally what siblings do to each other when they are kids. Arms has been a dominant PvP spec since Vanilla, with and without self healing.

Again to reiterate, if Arms feels like paper in competitive GROUP pvp, then there are more ways to solve that problem aside from giving them self healing.

disagree 100% - i keep seeing some of you guys saying not every class needs a self heal,well most have them these days needed or not,if you dont your lacking = what your seeing with warriors now.

warriors use to have biggest health pools in game did we not?we also have big heavy Armour "plate" and Armour matter back then unlike now,both theses are now gone = weaker class. to top if off warriors were created with a self heal were they not?a talent called blood craze was a must have for any arms warrior and most fury and tanks pick it up as well.

then in BC they added in 2nd wind giving us another self heal, so dont say the spec dont need self healing because it does.without any self healing leveling sucks,game play sucks, weak spec and its will only be useful while being pocket healed,so whats good is it?you can get other classes with self healing that can pump out just as much damage as arms can without needing to be baby say.

arms was never "soft" it was always bam bam until wrath rolled out and they started normalizing everything.so if you want a good spec blood crazy/2nd wind old school style is whats needed.or you end up with a weak spec and sitting in d-stance because of bad design.stance dancing =lmfao and i cant believe that is still around,it was out dated back in wrath/cata when they made classes like rets/dks rogues god like it has not place in todays game,clunky and out dated and have a cd=lmfao.

[Archimtiros]

It's pretty impossible to comment on much of anything pvp related because of how horrid tuning is across the board. I think self healing on many classes should be toned down.

I was hoping this stat/gear separation of PvP, and PvP talents would finally address this, but unfortunately they're still working in half-measures. Really annoying to continually see PvP-centric talents pop up in the PvE tree for the same reason.

- - - Updated - - -

To be fair he's right. Not every spec/class needs a *heal*. They could give Arms more damage reduction or give them a talent/passive that makes them receive more healing.

There are plenty of ways to give Arms more survivability without just shoehorning in a self heal. Not every class should have a 5 second stun, an 8 Second CC, Self Healing, a DPS cooldown, a damage reduction CD, ETC.

PvP has turned into the shit show it is because of this childish mentality of "I need it because X has it." That's literally what siblings do to each other when they are kids. Arms has been a dominant PvP spec since Vanilla, with and without self healing.

Again to reiterate, if Arms feels like paper in competitive GROUP pvp, then there are more ways to solve that problem aside from giving them self healing.

Eh, I dunno. I think one of the biggest improvements they ever made in the game was in giving every class self-sustain. The QoL jump for simply leveling up and questing throughout the world was enormous when things like Victory Rush hit the stage.

Of course, that's where PvP implications come in. Unfortunately with the myriad amount spell effects and abilities, it's really hard to balance pure mitigation against healing without turning the class into an unstoppable juggernaut half the time, and they don't want to get back into the old Rock-Paper-Scissors routine, even if it still exists in some forms. Much easier to simply give every spec healing and tweak that.

[Rorke]

Arms doesn't need any more defensives. I feel like I'm speaking to a brick wall but Arms does way too much damage to be given more defensive cds.

Victory Rush and Touch of Zakajz is not self healing or "reliable self healing". We just have those things to reduce our PvE soloing downtime. Touch of Zakajz is literally just an active version of old Blood Craze. These self healing things are given to us by Blizzard so we can move from mob to mob without downtime.

Blizzard has clearly intended Arms to be able to withstand more punishment than other dps specs but depend on support to "lick our wounds" for us. There's nothing wrong with this design and its worked for this class ever since they gave us 20% reduction in defensive stance in MoP. Since then, Arms has been the most represented melee in arena and is the most popular melee by far in both casual and ranked pvp.

You want self healing? Then Arms has to lose Defensive Stance. Sorry, but that's balance. That would just basically make it boring as it will just end up overlapping with Fury. Fury is the dueling spec, go play Fury if you want to beat random DK's in some stupid duel. Just have fun having zero killing power and mashing gcd's that do nothing until War Cry is up.

[Yassy]

I was hoping this stat/gear separation of PvP, and PvP talents would finally address this, but unfortunately they're still working in half-measures. Really annoying to continually see PvP-centric talents pop up in the PvE tree for the same reason.

- - - Updated - - -



Eh, I dunno. I think one of the biggest improvements they ever made in the game was in giving every class self-sustain. The QoL jump for simply leveling up and questing throughout the world was enormous when things like Victory Rush hit the stage.

Of course, that's where PvP implications come in. Unfortunately with the myriad amount spell effects and abilities, it's really hard to balance pure mitigation against healing without turning the class into an unstoppable juggernaut half the time, and they don't want to get back into the old Rock-Paper-Scissors routine, even if it still exists in some forms. Much easier to simply give every spec healing and tweak that.

That was part of my point. Arm's doesnt need some Healing CD like Enraged Regeneration. And the common logic as to why people think it does is because they had it before and can't survive with out it, or some other class has it already.

Victory Rush isnt a healing CD. It's an ability that heals with severe restrictions attached to it, just like the new Second Wind is. Both abilities are perfectly fine and actually good tools with depth.

But I guess what I said might've been misleading. To clarify, I don't think Arms needs *additional* self heals or defensive CDS. Victory Rush and Second Wind are more than enough, and I'd argue to say Arms has the best healing tools for leveling content out of every class in the game. Especially with DBTS being baseline. It's pretty easy to pop DBTS and get a full heal from Second Wind while fighting/jousting. But I thought that would be obvious since if those tools were considered enough, the complaint of Arms not having self healing shouldn't exist.

[Artunias]

I was hoping this stat/gear separation of PvP, and PvP talents would finally address this, but unfortunately they're still working in half-measures. Really annoying to continually see PvP-centric talents pop up in the PvE tree for the same reason.

I've not been impressed with the splitting of the two games, as that seemed to be something they were pretty proud about with Legion tech/systems. Balance is a finnicky thing approaching the end of a Beta, but it doesn't seem like they are using many of the tools available to them.

[Beardyface]

I've not been impressed with the splitting of the two games, as that seemed to be something they were pretty proud about with Legion tech/systems. Balance is a finnicky thing approaching the end of a Beta, but it doesn't seem like they are using many of the tools available to them.

Yeah, this is just silly. Why even have a separate PvP talent tree if the talents from the PvE tree still apply? I was looking at my keybinds the other day for Prot Warrior and realized I'm only going to lose one spell in Legion that isn't replaced by something else, and if I decide to PvP, I have to keybind up to another three abilities, depending on what I pick in the PvP talent tree. They wanted to reduce button bloat, but they're actually giving PvPers more buttons than they had in WoD.

[Caargon]

Yeah, this is just silly. Why even have a separate PvP talent tree if the talents from the PvE tree still apply? I was looking at my keybinds the other day for Prot Warrior and realized I'm only going to lose one spell in Legion that isn't replaced by something else, and if I decide to PvP, I have to keybind up to another three abilities, depending on what I pick in the PvP talent tree. They wanted to reduce button bloat, but they're actually giving PvPers more buttons than they had in WoD.

I don't see the downside. We're still down significantly from mists and even WoD, any further trimming was threatening to kill competitive PvP. This isn't the type of game where you can stay engaged with nothing to contribute but your damage buttons.

[Beardyface]

I don't see the downside. We're still down significantly from mists and even WoD, any further trimming was threatening to kill competitive PvP. This isn't the type of game where you can stay engaged with nothing to contribute but your damage buttons.

The downside is that we got all excited that they might be able to balance PvP and PvE separately. At least I did. But sadly, PvE is still getting nerfed for PvP reasons. There's a whole separate PvP tree yet nothing has changed.

[cFortyfive]

It's pretty easy to pop DBTS and get a full heal from Second Wind while fighting/jousting. But I thought that would be obvious since if those tools were considered enough, the complaint of Arms not having self healing shouldn't exist.

Admittedly I haven't played pvp on a relevant level for a while but are people seriously that band and don't manage to get behind you for an autoattack over the course of 8 seconds and are on top too bad to cast a spell on you during that time ? If that's the case it wouldn't surprise me when the developers don't feel obligated to care one bit about pvp balance anymore.
Personally I also can't say I think the days where you required a pocket druid or shaman to even have a remote chance against anything really need to make a comeback at this point.

[Maltore]

The downside is that we got all excited that they might be able to balance PvP and PvE separately. At least I did. But sadly, PvE is still getting nerfed for PvP reasons. There's a whole separate PvP tree yet nothing has changed.

You can't decouple the two. Well, I guess you could, but they don't want to completely do that, and I probably agree with their philosophy for the most part. But the PvP changes do bring more knobs into play for tuning balance, so it is an improvement (potentially). They just need to actually use those knobs wisely...

However, as a primarily PvE player, it does feel a bit dissatisfying that "my" talents are still subject to PvP balance, while PvPers get a whole new, and additional, talent tree for more gameplay options and depth, that aren't subject to PvE issues. It doesn't feel good knowing there there's more character customization through PvP than PvE (well, I guess there's legendary items...). I guess it's just jealousy, but it probably won't convince me to get more into PvP.