Mass Shooting at Florida Gay Bar

[ParanoiD84]

Are you guys only counting the US or what, because between the middleeast and africa and all the world really there have been thousands of terrorist attacks done by islamic groups the last couple years with multiple attacks going on daily.

When christians or jews or any other religion start to commit these attacks on a daily basis we can start talking because as of now they are not even in the same league.

[Ghostpanther]

wasn't the planned parenthood shooting done by a christian extremist?

It was. Christianity is not without it's extremists down thru history. But it is not them making the news headlines lately. Radical religion is one which needs to be denounced for what it is. A faith driven hatred to the extreme you want to kill those who disagree with you or harm others in the practice of said religion. As a christian, I denounce all beliefs which teach that.

[Elegiac]

This wasn't some product of American culture. Whatever it was, it wasn't that - because if that was the case, this would happen all the time in America, and it doesn't.

Sorry? Anti-LGBT violence doesn't occur 'all the time' in America?

The only difference between this and a gay bashing is this was sufficiently spectacular.

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

Christian Holy text:
Gays are abominations.

Islamic Holy text:
Gays are abominations.

Murder is worse than discrimination but both are rooted in hatred based on faith.

Nowhere in the Christian bible does it say gays are an abomination.

I am paraphrasing, but I believe it simply says "a man shall not lie with a man, as a man lies with a woman."

[Renathras]

Considering that violence during Ramadan is explicitly prohibited, I'd say he was about as much inspired by Islamic tenets as he was by American ones that encourage the use of violence to effect political ends, that encourage a gun culture, and that encourage hostility towards LGBT people.

Again, the 'blame it on Islam' line is a pathetic attempt to excuse the fact that homegrown Americans have been encouraging this sort of attitude for decades.

You're kidding, right?

Firstly, violence during Ramadan may be prohibited, but it happens in the Middle-East all the time.

Secondly, there's no pathetic attempt, excuse, or homegrown Americans engaging in "this sort of attitude for decades". People haven't been doing this for decades, nor is there a homegrown American movement of mowing down hundreds of people in night clubs, gay or otherwise.

[Gib Lover]

I wouldn't call the KKK a Christian organization, but let's use them as an example since you seem to think they're one and the same. When was the last time the KKK conducted a mass shooting of more than 30 people? I'm willing to bet it's been at least 40 years. In other words, over a generation ago.

The Greensboro massacre of 1979 is the only mass shooting the Klan has been involved in that I'm aware of, and that was 5 dead 5 injured. So to answer your question, the KKK has never partook in a shooting of more than 30 people.

[Hammerfest]

I think it's time the American Left joined common sense. If they really are the champions of the gay community that they claim to be, then the American Left needs to join American conservatives when it comes to the subject of Islamic terrorism.

[Sky High]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-true-muslims/

Americans are twice as willing to distance Christian extremists from their religion as Muslims

edit: misread carry on.

[Imnick]

I'm not 100% sure why people are trying to forward the idea that you need to kill 24-30 people in order to be counted as a violent extremist.
Is the success rate really the important statistic here?

[Cricket22]

An old M-16 at that. The newer ones don't even have full auto. They have 3 shot burst.

It's so easy to tell who knows nothing of guns these days.

I believe the M-16A2 and M-16A4 is limited to a 3 shot burst, but the M-16A3 is equipped with select firing of either a 3 round burst or fully automatic, and I believe it is still available. My concealed carry instructor has a M-16A3, and it is fully automatic.

Of course, there's always "bump firing", but that's not exactly legal.

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

Please. None of that shit compares to other attacks that have come from non-Muslim groups historically.

Stop trying to justify your hatred by trying to claim that only one religious ideology causes violence.

Oh, historically.

Okay. I thought we were talking about the modern day, modern concerns.

You want to talk about things from 400-500 years ago, and somehow relate it today.

Okay.

[Elegiac]

You're kidding, right?

Firstly, violence during Ramadan may be prohibited, but it happens in the Middle-East all the time.

*thumbs up* Go figure that violence would be significantly more common in less economically developed countries.

Secondly, there's no pathetic attempt, excuse, or homegrown Americans engaging in "this sort of attitude for decades". People haven't been doing this for decades, nor is there a homegrown American movement of mowing down hundreds of people in night clubs, gay or otherwise.

They have, however, been encouraging incredibly hostile attitudes towards LGBT people and creating a permissive atmosphere in which violence is much more likely to occur.

[PACOX]

I think it's time the American Left joined common sense. If they really are the champions of the gay community that they claim to be, then the American Left needs to join American conservatives when it comes to the subject of Islamic terrorism.

So what should the left be doing then? Pretty sure the left acknowledges extremism just like the right does.

[Detritivores]

Yes we have, and the consensus on that ranges from "if you're under an investigation you should be barred for life" to "what the fuck, removing rights based on investigations you're not even aware of is unconstitutional as fuck".

I see. Thanks for the summary.

I asked that question because I feel like that's the lowest hanging fruit to come out of this. He wasn't just "under investigation unbeknownst to him" He was interviewed twice and had said and done not enough for anyone to take action, but I would argue more than enough that we should feel comfortable taking away his gun rights. I'll bow out here though. I don't want to make this thread rehash it.

[Imnick]

You're kidding, right?

Firstly, violence during Ramadan may be prohibited, but it happens in the Middle-East all the time.

Secondly, there's no pathetic attempt, excuse, or homegrown Americans engaging in "this sort of attitude for decades". People haven't been doing this for decades, nor is there a homegrown American movement of mowing down hundreds of people in night clubs, gay or otherwise.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2..._clubs_in.html

[Elegiac]

You want to talk about things from 400-500 years ago, and somehow relate it today.

We're well aware that conservatives don't study history, but that's beside the point since historical actions are relevant when analysing present events.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not 100% sure why people are trying to forward the idea that you need to kill 24-30 people in order to be counted as a violent extremist.
Is the success rate really the important statistic here?

You forget that a lot of these people only bother to 'care' about things when they are enough of a spectacle for the media to be focusing attention on it.

[RickJamesLich]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihadi...ttacks_by_date
Attacks or failed attacks by date:

1993 World Trade Center bombing
2000 millennium attack plots
Aftermath of the September 11 attacks
2001 September 11 attacks
2002 Los Angeles Airport shooting
2002 José Padilla (Abdullah al-Muhajir) Plot
2002 Buffalo Six
2004 financial buildings plot
2005 Los Angeles bomb plot
2006 Hudson River bomb plot
2006 Sears Tower plot
2006 Toledo terror plot
2006 transatlantic aircraft plot
2006 UNC SUV attack
2007 Fort Dix attack plot
2007 John F. Kennedy International Airport attack plot
2009 Little Rock recruiting office shooting
2009 Bronx terrorism plot
2009 Dallas Car Bomb Plot by Hosam Maher Husein Smadi[32]
2009 New York City Subway and United Kingdom plot
2009 Fort Hood shooting
2009 Colleen LaRose arrested (not made public until March 2010)
2010 King Salmon, Alaska local meteorologist and wife assassination plots
2010 Alleged Washington Metro bomb plot
2011 Alleged Saudi Arabian student bomb plots
2011 Manhattan terrorism plot
2011 Lone Wolf New York City, Bayonne,NJ pipe bombs plot.
2012 Car bomb plot in Florida.[33]
2013 Boston Marathon bombing
2013 Wichita Airport bombing plot
2015 Boston beheading plot
2015 Curtis Culwell Center attack
2015 San Bernardino attack

Interesting video from Ben Shapiro that I think relates to this topic as well on the myth of only a small minorities believing in violence:

[satimy]

Which, again, doesn't matter - largely because exactly the same attitude towards LGBT people is encouraged in the United States, especially in the South.

Its not even comparable to how gays are treated in the religious south compared to theocratic islamic nations. Thats just an unbearably stupid comment

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

We're well aware that conservatives don't study history, but that's beside the point since historical actions are relevant when analysing present events.

Dude, someone must have really hurt or damaged you during your childhood, to tie everything into a negative against Christians or conservatives.

I don't even know if engaging or responding to you is appropriate at this point.

[Elegiac]

They don't fucking provide justification.

"Crusaders killed a lot of Muslims a thousand years ago, the Catholic church burned heretics a thousand years ago, etc..." Is not a defense against ANYTHING modern Muslims do.

No, but 'Western colonialism has created a socioeconomic environment in which radical religious/nationalist movements are significantly more likely to thrive' is a good explanation.

And nobody is 'defending' Muslim terrorists. The only defending going on is defending the millions of Muslims who -don't- engage in radicalised behaviour from the predations of the American right.