1. #2881
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Considering that violence during Ramadan is explicitly prohibited, I'd say he was about as much inspired by Islamic tenets as he was by American ones that encourage the use of violence to effect political ends, that encourage a gun culture, and that encourage hostility towards LGBT people.

    Again, the 'blame it on Islam' line is a pathetic attempt to excuse the fact that homegrown Americans have been encouraging this sort of attitude for decades.

    To be fair, it would also be pathetic through and through (it really, really would) to claim that this deed has nothing at all to do with religion (in this case, radical islam), if one is deluded/desperate enough to even try such an angle after his pledged allegiance became known, or that ISIS (and comparable islamic fundamentalist terror groups, such as Boko Haram and al-Qaida) isn't a major source of inspiration for people that's both considering deeds like this and has some sort of pre-established connection/logical route towards, on some level, embracing such tenets. I mean it's certainly perfectly fine to talk about american societal issues (such as gun culture) or what have you, and discuss what part those plays in encouraging/making a thing like this happen, but limiting the discussion to that, particularly so in this very case, is even more asinine than straight out fully blaming moderate islam as a concept (and that's a feat, really).

  2. #2882
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrigglyPuff View Post
    Dude, someone must have really hurt or damaged you during your childhood, to tie everything into a negative against Christians or conservatives.
    When you're discussing modern American society, both Christianity and conservatism need to be kept in mind since they are both sources of a lot of present ills.

  3. #2883
    Quote Originally Posted by artemishunter1 View Post
    How did then this person manage to shoot 100 people without being zerg rushed? There is no defense against even semi autos, handguns are MUCH MUCH slower.
    The AR-15 shoots 1 bullet at a time, which I should know. My AR-15 is my very favorite rifle.

    So how did he manage to shoot 100 people without being Zerg rushed? Because instead of rushing the shooter, they ran and hid. In the 3 hours before authorities took him down, he had plenty of time to find and shoot those 100+ people.

  4. #2884
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Lover View Post
    The Greensboro massacre of 1979 is the only mass shooting the Klan has been involved in that I'm aware of, and that was 5 dead 5 injured. So to answer your question, the KKK has never partook in a shooting of more than 30 people.
    Thats because the KKK didn't need to resort to large scale displays of violence. They were free to lynch people, bomb and burn down churches, or put on police uniforms and beat the shit out of people.

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  5. #2885
    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    Please. None of that shit compares to other attacks that have come from non-Muslim groups historically.

    Stop trying to justify your hatred by trying to claim that only one religious ideology causes violence.
    Guys, so if you identify a problem and seek to address said problem so you, your family and country are safe, you will be told you have hatred towards others by progressive liberals.

    Please, Please, Please, keep posting Celista. It is only driving more people to vote for Trump when they read your posts.

  6. #2886
    Quote Originally Posted by Eviscero View Post
    Christian Holy text:
    Gays are abominations.

    Islamic Holy text:
    Gays are abominations.

    Murder is worse than discrimination but both are rooted in hatred based on faith.
    Regarding Christians, the New Testament (which Christianity is based) says nothing of gays. The Old Testament does, but strict adherence to the Old Testament was called into question by Jesus when he cured people disease or plucked grain to eat on the Sabbath. Hardliners heavily criticized Jesus for this because the law stated to not work to the Sabbath. But Jesus was violating that law and defended it by saying the old covenant had been fulfilled by his sacrifice and a new covenant would replace all the old rules.

    It was heavily debated as to whether or not to even include the Old Testament in the Christian faith. It is there but the New Testament trumps it. And the New Testament mentions nothing of gays.

    Infracted - Forbidden Topics
    Last edited by Crissi; 2016-06-13 at 04:07 AM.

  7. #2887
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    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    Its not even comparable to how gays are treated in the religious south compared to theocratic islamic nations. Thats just an unbearably stupid comment
    Cool story. This didn't happen in a 'theocratic Islamic nation', nor was it perpetrated by someone who came from such a nation.

  8. #2888
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detritivores View Post
    I can't possibly read this whole thread. Skimming I see mostly people yelling about how who's responsible and to what degree it's ISIS, or Obama not saying "Islamic," or homophobia in the US.

    Have we talked about how the guy got the guns yet? Has anyone showed up to defend the Islamist's second amendment? Or was there unanimous agreement that knowing what the FBI knew about him, he should have flagged in a mythical national background checked database and prevented from buying weapons? Just curious.
    Reports I've read indicate that he was licensed to buy and own guns, was registered with the state of Florida as a security official, and basically would have passed any proposed gun control background checks, licensing requirements, and so on. I've also not heard of him committing any prior crimes that would have resulted in him being prohibited from buying or owning guns. I also haven't (yet) seen any evidence he had any ties or known connections to ISIS before proclaiming he was doing it for ISIS, meaning there may have been no paper trail.

    That is - all forms of gun control that Democrats have been proposing for the last 30+ years would not have stopped this, since the man seems to have had all the required permits and licenses, and even was registered with the state as a security employee.

    In short, he "did everything right" as far as passing all gun control laws and proposed (not yet implemented) ones. None of them would have stopped this. -shrug-

  9. #2889
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    It was heavily debated as to whether or not to even include the Old Testament in the Christian faith. It is there but the New Testament trumps it. And the New Testament mentions nothing of gays.
    Tell that to the christian right.

  10. #2890
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    No, but 'Western colonialism has created a socioeconomic environment in which radical religious/nationalist movements are significantly more likely to thrive' is a good explanation.

    And nobody is 'defending' Muslim terrorists. The only defending going on is defending the millions of Muslims who -don't- engage in radicalised behaviour from the predations of the American right.
    Wrong, colonialism didn't create their socio-economic problems. They have been constantly struggling since long before colonialism.
    Last edited by PC2; 2016-06-12 at 11:46 PM.

  11. #2891
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Cool story. This didn't happen in a 'theocratic Islamic nation', nor was it perpetrated by someone who came from such a nation.
    So the shooter was a christian from "the south"? How is your comment logical at all?

  12. #2892
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrigglyPuff View Post
    Guys, so if you identify a problem and seek to address said problem so you, your family and country are safe, you will be told you have hatred towards others by progressive liberals.
    Largely because the Trump movement is based entirely upon providing scapegoats.

  13. #2893
    Quote Originally Posted by tollshot View Post
    So it's a case of one pull of the trigger results in one bullet dispensed in both weapons? Surely the power of the rifle and the caliber of a rifle bullet would result in far more potential damage compared to a pistol.
    LOL! You have obviously never fired, or witnessed the damage caused by a .50 caliber Desert Eagle pistol.

    You know, even the bullets my AR-15 rifle fires are practically miniscule compared to the bullets for my husband's AK-47.
    Last edited by Cricket22; 2016-06-12 at 11:51 PM.

  14. #2894
    I'm not telling people how to live their lives but maybe toning down the 'gayness' in Western society would be more inclusive? Is being a homosexual really worth causing such offence to peaceful religions? I'm not sure tbh
    Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
    What people call impartiality may simply mean indifference, and what people call partiality may simply mean mental activity.
    There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism.
    -GK Chesterton

  15. #2895
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    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    So the shooter was a christian from "the south"? How is your comment logical at all?
    The shooter was an American, living in the South, in an environment which is permissive of inflammatory homophobic rhetoric.

  16. #2896
    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    Regarding Christians, the New Testament (which Christianity is based) says nothing of gays. The Old Testament does, but strict adherence to the Old Testament was called into question by Jesus when he cured people disease or plucked grain to eat on the Sabbath. Hardliners heavily criticized Jesus for this because the law stated to not work to the Sabbath. But Jesus was violating that law and defended it by saying the old covenant had been fulfilled by his sacrifice and a new covenant would replace all the old rules.

    It was heavily debated as to whether or not to even include the Old Testament in the Christian faith. It is there but the New Testament trumps it. And the New Testament mentions nothing of gays.
    Best post so far in this thread.

  17. #2897
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    When you're discussing modern American society, both Christianity and conservatism need to be kept in mind since they are both sources of a lot of present ills.
    Present ills? We're in one of the most prosperous societies to ever exist. More like job well done.

  18. #2898
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimaryColor View Post
    Wrong, colonialism didn't create their socio-economic problems.
    Oh right, colonialism didn't do anything to anyone and left no impact on the world.

  19. #2899
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    Please. None of that shit compares to other attacks that have come from non-Muslim groups historically.

    Stop trying to justify your hatred by trying to claim that only one religious ideology causes violence.
    I suggest you remain neutral on this Celista. I'm only saying this to you because you're not stupid.

    We're discussing a recent attack. Nothing else. We want to solve this recent problem.

  20. #2900
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimaryColor View Post
    Present ills? We're in one of the most prosperous societies to ever exist.
    Not for a while now, the US is being outstripped by a number of other western countries in terms of general prosperity.

    Then again, I forgot that being able to spend money on a pile of useless consumer shit constitutes wellbeing.

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