Terror in Israel: 4 dead

[Holas]

Another vid that pretty much sums up western PC views regarding Israel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2KH...ature=youtu.be

[Machismo]

Who's the one that's oppressing the Palastinians?
How is Israel "oppressing" them?
Not allowing them entry to Israel is not oppression.
And inspecting shipments for arms is not oppression.
it's measures of defense.

you want to see palastinian oppression? take a look at their leaders and their palaces.
take a look at all the money they spent building tunnels.
take a look at how they treat their own people.

https://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/2...ot-rich-quick/
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...543634,00.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...razy-ends.html
http://europe.newsweek.com/hamas-pla...l-462514?rm=eu

It's very easy to blame everything on Israel.
Truth is, the Palestinians are their own worst enemies.
While arabs in israel have more freedom and rights than what their palastinian "brothers" would give them.

Yes, the Israeli government IS oppressing Palestinians.

I didn't blame everything on Israel, stop being deliberately disingenuous. I blame everyone for their own actions. I blame terrorists for terrorism, I blame those who fund terrorism for funding it. I blame a government for oppressing people. And if you want to live in denial about the Israeli government oppressing Palestinians, that's your willful ignorance, not mine. No amount of evidence will change your mind (of which there is plenty, even you cited examples). You are brainwashed.

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Again, can you tell me, if the Palestinians are not the aggressors, but the defenders
how is coming to a restaurant to shoot civilians an act of defense?

please explain this.

Is the Israeli army defenders when they level an entire neighborhood?

Your government is participating in its own version of apartheid, and you are defending it. You support oppression, plain and simple. How is that any different than the Palestinian who supports Hamas? You both have innocent blood on your hands.

[Notter]

Yes, the Israeli government IS oppressing Palestinians.

I didn't blame everything on Israel, stop being deliberately disingenuous. I blame everyone for their own actions. I blame terrorists for terrorism, I blame those who fund terrorism for funding it. I blame a government for oppressing people. And if you want to live in denial about the Israeli government oppressing Palestinians, that's your willful ignorance, not mine. No amount of evidence will change your mind (of which there is plenty, even you cited examples). You are brainwashed.

that's funny, saying I'M the one who's brainwashed, while you're living in america or Europe, and have NO CLUE what's going on here, and saying i'm ignorant to the truth.
have you taken a moment to think that YOU might be brainwashed?

anyway, just give me an example of the oppression Palestinians suffer under the Israeli government.
And no, not giving them "their land" back, is not oppression. nor is denying free access to Israel, or free import of weapons into Gaza.

I think "the most" oppressive thing that they can "suffer" is soldiers coming to their homes at night to grab terrorists suspects.
I have no problems with that.
as long as they want to keep terrorizing Israel, they have no right to complain when we apprehend terrorists.

Is the Israeli army defenders when they level an entire neighborhood?

Your government is participating in its own version of apartheid, and you are defending it. You support oppression, plain and simple. How is that any different than the Palestinian who supports Hamas? You both have innocent blood on your hands.

YES. they are defenders when they level a neighborhood.
1. it's not common practice, it happens in a WAR.
2. it's to push back and destroy their rockets launchers.
3. even that's, only after warning all civilians to evacuate the area. (something the Hamas government is known to prevent them form doing, to inflate casualties)

i'm sorry, what do you expect war to be like?
giving them flowers and ask nicely to stop shooting?
or just do nothing and just look at missiles going over my house, like i've seen 2 years ago?

and what does apartheid have to do with anything?
they're not Israeli civilians, they don't have the same rights as israeli civilians.
and Israeli Arabs don't suffer from appartheid.
don't throw around words, and then call me "brainwashed".

[Deleted]

Notter, after claiming Israel is NOT oppressing Palestinians, accuses other people of being brainwashed.
More at 11.

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Notter, 2016:

"Yes they are defenders when they level a neighbourhood".


It's clear to pretty much everyone apart Notter himself, and others like him, that people like Notter are ACTUALLY part of the problem. I mean I'm sure there is someone on the other side right now, saying:

"Yes they are defenders when they shoot a restaurant up"

Notter is extremism, and extremism needs to be isolated.

[Shadowferal]

Link to torture and abuse under interrogation

How contemptible though when perpetrated against minors

Demolition Statistics

[Holas]

Link to torture and abuse under interrogation

How contemptible though when perpetrated against minors

Demolition Statistics

1. Interrogations : Yes, Israel is using mild physical pressure to get info. Here is a surprise -your country is doing it as well. If you think this is some kind of harsh unacceptable torture -you are just naive.
2. Minors - when we have 12 and 13 years old terrorist, they also needs to be stopped and questioned. You have a problem with that? tough.
3.Demolishing : Only 19 houses in the last 2-3 years actually sound too few after 1000 terror attacks. I bet most are just waiting for legal approval.


What was your point with all this? Has anyone said this stuff haven't happen and you want to prove them wrong? Or do you simply want to show how bad Israel is doing?
If its the first part then you are correct -these stuff happens. If its the second part then maybe it extremely evil for a country with no threats but keep in mind that most WESTERN intelligence acts this way. I am not even talking on arab/Muslims which are totally savage.

[Shadowferal]

1. Interrogations : Yes, Israel is using mild physical pressure to get info. Here is a surprise -your country is doing it as well. If you think this is some kind of harsh unacceptable torture -you are just naive.
2. Minors - when we have 12 and 13 years old terrorist, they also needs to be stopped and questioned. You have a problem with that? tough.
3.Demolishing : Only 19 houses in the last 2-3 years actually sound too few after 1000 terror attacks. I bet most are just waiting for legal approval.


What was your point with all this? Has anyone said this stuff haven't happen and you want to prove them wrong? Or do you simply want to show how bad Israel is doing?
If its the first part then you are correct -these stuff happens. If its the second part then maybe it extremely evil for a country with no threats but keep in mind that most WESTERN intelligence acts this way. I am not even talking on arab/Muslims which are totally savage.

o well I'm glad you can get all dismissive about it, since if other countries do it then it must be ok then...no harm no foul.../s
Way to go in justifying all that..."shit happen..o well"

[Holas]

o well I'm glad you can get all dismissive about it, since if other countries do it then it must be ok then...no harm no foul.../s
Way to go in justifying all that..."shit happen..o well"

Well at least we agree. (something quite uncommon). When there will be a threads bashing all EU countries one by one for doing something similar (which not that bad -at least not in my eyes), then and only then I could take your point and address it more seriously.

For now its "others do it too" (by others i mean western countries not arab/muslim savage countries) and unless you pick on "others", stop picking on Israel solely as that makes you anti-semite. Yes, I actually went there.

[Machismo]

that's funny, saying I'M the one who's brainwashed, while you're living in america or Europe, and have NO CLUE what's going on here, and saying i'm ignorant to the truth.
have you taken a moment to think that YOU might be brainwashed?

anyway, just give me an example of the oppression Palestinians suffer under the Israeli government.
And no, not giving them "their land" back, is not oppression. nor is denying free access to Israel, or free import of weapons into Gaza.

I think "the most" oppressive thing that they can "suffer" is soldiers coming to their homes at night to grab terrorists suspects.
I have no problems with that.
as long as they want to keep terrorizing Israel, they have no right to complain when we apprehend terrorists.



YES. they are defenders when they level a neighborhood.
1. it's not common practice, it happens in a WAR.
2. it's to push back and destroy their rockets launchers.
3. even that's, only after warning all civilians to evacuate the area. (something the Hamas government is known to prevent them form doing, to inflate casualties)

i'm sorry, what do you expect war to be like?
giving them flowers and ask nicely to stop shooting?
or just do nothing and just look at missiles going over my house, like i've seen 2 years ago?

and what does apartheid have to do with anything?
they're not Israeli civilians, they don't have the same rights as israeli civilians.
and Israeli Arabs don't suffer from appartheid.
don't throw around words, and then call me "brainwashed".

You literally just gave two out of the many examples... that's hilarious.

If you are going to take their land, you are oppressing them. If you prevent them from moving freely, you are oppressing them. If you aim your firearms at them, you are oppressing them. If you forcefully prevent them from partaking in trade and commerce, you are oppressing them. If you do not allow for equality under the law, you are oppressing them.

Yeah, you are brainwashed. You allow your cognitive dissonance to ignore all those things, because they don't fit your obvious agenda.

[Notter]

You literally just gave two out of the many examples... that's hilarious.

If you are going to take their land, you are oppressing them. If you prevent them from moving freely, you are oppressing them. If you aim your firearms at them, you are oppressing them. If you forcefully prevent them from partaking in trade and commerce, you are oppressing them. If you do not allow for equality under the law, you are oppressing them.

Yeah, you are brainwashed. You allow your cognitive dissonance to ignore all those things, because they don't fit your obvious agenda.

No matter how many times you will repeat it, it won't make it true.
it's not their land. even by your child logic of "they were here first" it doesn't make it their land.
if sell your apartment to someone, or even if you get evicted by force from it. it's no longer your apartment.

next, ANYONE does not have free access to israel, not even israeli citizens.
when you go into the country, to go through immigration and passport check.

and if you're known to carry arms and explosives into israel, you're gonna be double checked for what reason you're coming and what are you carrying.
this is NOT oppression.

I gave you examples of true oppression, how the palastinians suffer under hamas. but you don't give two shits about palastinians. you just want to bitch about israel.

[Machismo]

No matter how many times you will repeat it, it won't make it true.
it's not their land. even by your child logic of "they were here first" it doesn't make it their land.
if sell your apartment to someone, or even if you get evicted by force from it. it's no longer your apartment.

next, ANYONE does not have free access to israel, not even israeli citizens.
when you go into the country, to go through immigration and passport check.

and if you're known to carry arms and explosives into israel, you're gonna be double checked for what reason you're coming and what are you carrying.
this is NOT oppression.

I gave you examples of true oppression, how the palastinians suffer under hamas. but you don't give two shits about palastinians. you just want to bitch about israel.

Oh, so those examples of oppression "don't count" when the Israeli government does it... got it.

The government is literally kicking people out of their homes...

You support oppression, plain and simple.

I do care about Palestinians, that's why I do not support terrorist groups like Hamas. I also don't support when governments do it, like Israel has on many occasions. I'm not a big fan of killing innocent people. Hamas does it, the Israeli government does it.

As adorable as your attempt at soapbox Jesus is, everyone can see you are just trying to shill for your side. I'm sure you'll eventually accuse anyone who opposes the oppression perpetrated by the Israeli government to be anti-Semites.

[Notter]

Oh, so those examples of oppression "don't count" when the Israeli government does it... got it.

The government is literally kicking people out of their homes...

You support oppression, plain and simple.

I do care about Palestinians, that's why I do not support terrorist groups like Hamas. I also don't support when governments do it, like Israel has on many occasions. I'm not a big fan of killing innocent people. Hamas does it, the Israeli government does it.

As adorable as your attempt at soapbox Jesus is, everyone can see you are just trying to shill for your side. I'm sure you'll eventually accuse anyone who opposes the oppression perpetrated by the Israeli government to be anti-Semites.

I don't admit that they suffer oppression under Israel.
that's not the same as supporting oppression.

Try looking at this from my point of view for a second.
i'm afraid to go out, cause every day an arab might try to stab me, as been the case for the last 6+ months.
am i not oppressed then? do i not live in fear?

The thing is, you view this issue through a Marxist lens. you only see the weak as the oppressed. while the reality is much different.
Israel is under constant attacks of terrorists who want nothing but to kill jews.
what should israel do, in your mind, when israeli civilians are attacked?

[Machismo]

I don't admit that they suffer oppression under Israel.
that's not the same as supporting oppression.

Try looking at this from my point of view for a second.
i'm afraid to go out, cause every day an arab might try to stab me, as been the case for the last 6+ months.
am i not oppressed then? do i not live in fear?

The thing is, you view this issue through a Marxist lens. you only see the weak as the oppressed. while the reality is much different.
Israel is under constant attacks of terrorists who want nothing but to kill jews.
what should israel do, in your mind, when israeli civilians are attacked?

That's the thing, we're having two different discussions. You are like a climate change denier, who swears the world isn't getting warmer. No matter how many facts are present in front of you, you refuse to admit they exist. You have yet to even recognize that a problem exists.

Israel should allow the Palestinians to create their own sovereign state. Let them rule themselves. If their new government tries to harm you, harm their government. That does not mean you relentlessly bombard innocent civilians. You do not want to do that, you support oppression, and jsutify it, all because you feel oppressed yourself.

Until the Palestinians are allowed sovereign rule, this will only end badly. It will eventually lead to the eradication (or outright eviction) of one group or another. Since the Israeli government is more powerful, they will likely have their "final solution."

[Notter]

That's the thing, we're having two different discussions. You are like a climate change denier, who swears the world isn't getting warmer. No matter how many facts are present in front of you, you refuse to admit they exist. You have yet to even recognize that a problem exists.

Israel should allow the Palestinians to create their own sovereign state. Let them rule themselves. If their new government tries to harm you, harm their government. That does not mean you relentlessly bombard innocent civilians. You do not want to do that, you support oppression, and jsutify it, all because you feel oppressed yourself.

Until the Palestinians are allowed sovereign rule, this will only end badly. It will eventually lead to the eradication (or outright eviction) of one group or another. Since the Israeli government is more powerful, they will likely have their "final solution."

I've stated many times i want them to have their own country.
and WHEN they attack, we bomb them all. problem solved. glad we see eye to eye.

[Machismo]

I've stated many times i want them to have their own country.
and WHEN they attack, we bomb them all. problem solved. glad we see eye to eye.

When you admit to your government oppressing others, then we can see eye to eye. Let me know when that happens.

[Polyxo]

You know, if you replace "Israel" and "Jews" or "Israelis" with "Russia" and "Russians", and "Palestine" and "Palestinians" or "Arabs" With "Ukraine/Georgia" and so on, you pretty much have your average Team Russia thread.

[Notter]

You know, if you replace "Israel" and "Jews" or "Israelis" with "Russia" and "Russians", and "Palestine" and "Palestinians" or "Arabs" With "Ukraine/Georgia" and so on, you pretty much have your average Team Russia thread.

it's nothing alike, Israel is dealing with a terror organization.
only similarity is the fact ignorant people that don't live in these countries and only read whatever their biased propaganda fed them, like to pass judgement.

[Ealyssa]

if the blue team is attacked by the red team and during the fight the red team manage to kill one person of the blue team while the blue team manage to kill 10, does it change the fact that the red team are the aggressors?

When you kill random civilian instead of, you know, arresting the guilty ? Obviously yes, you are. And not only the aggressor, but also the creator of the next attack on "your" side.

[Notter]

When you kill random civilian instead of, you know, arresting the guilty ? Obviously yes, you are. And not only the aggressor, but also the creator of the next attack on "your" side.

So you're saying, if you sustain enough casualties, your actions are justified?

[Ealyssa]

So you're saying, if you sustain enough casualties, your actions are justified?

That's actually the whole Israel policy... "These bastard terrorist killed our people, let send our army kill a few hundreds"

Terrorism should obviously be fought against. But killing civilian only create more terrorism.