Mass Shooting at Florida Gay Bar

[Ichifails]

Yes because Christians are so tolerant of LGBT, It's not like this year alone they were passing laws infringing their rights or holding rallies praising people refusing to issue them marriage licenses.

What exactly makes everyone think I'm Christian? For all I care, wipe all religious extremists out.

I just find it funny how people try to mix things that just won't work together.

[Lightwysh]

Yes because Christians are so tolerant of LGBT, It's not like this year alone they were passing laws infringing their rights or holding rallies praising people refusing to issue them marriage licenses.

Holding rallies is not the same as shooting up a night club.

[Draco-Onis]

The fact that Muslims are not the only ones tweetting bad things doesnt exclude the fact that Mulsims are, in fact, tweeting bad things. It is obvious that there are bad people everywhere, it's the proportioin that is in question. And like i said, i do believe there are a lot of good Muslims, but if they are the majority, they are powerless against any extremists. And that IS different than bad people elsewhere, where we can freely talk them down without the risk of being shot or bombed. Or at least with an incredibly lower risk, compared to a good Mulsim trying to condemn the extremists actions.

Most good people regardless of religion try to keep their heads down and live their lives, you don't see Christians going out of their way to talk down the crazies they just try to ignore them.

[Vanyali]

Holding rallies is not the same as shooting up a night club.

"We're only campaigning to treat you like subhumans, but we're not killing you so it's okay!".

They're both bad. Neither should be tolerated.

[Draco-Onis]

Holding rallies is not the same as shooting up a night club.

Shooting abortions clinics, Black churches, bombing federal buildings, schools there's a rather long list maybe not gay nightclubs yet...

[Bollocks]

You're right... millions disagree... in a religion with over 1.6 billion followers.

Bro come to Peru or Bolivia. Our churches still preach against gay marriage and fully disagree with the idea

[Ichifails]

Bro come to Peru or Bolivia. Our churches still preach against gay marriage and fully disagree with the idea

Again, I don't care about any kind of religious nutjobs. It's just funny how people want to import more when they are simply incompatible with western society, especially a group that is in such large numbers against almost everything that defines "our" society.

[Vanyali]

Again, I don't care about any kind of religious nutjobs. It's just funny how people want to import more when they are simply incompatible with western society, especially a group that is in such large numbers against almost everything that defines "our" society.

You're talking about "importing more" like there's a quota we're trying to fill, and like this tragedy wasn't the result of someone that was born here. "No more immigration" wouldn't have stopped this native born citizen from attacking other citizens.

[Themius]

How does a guy who has been questioned twice in 2013 and 2014, and is on a terror watch list legally buy a gun?

[Draco-Onis]

How does a guy who has been questioned twice in 2013 and 2014, and is on a terror watch list legally buy a gun?

You can thank the NRA for that.

[Therikan]

Most good people regardless of religion try to keep their heads down and live their lives, you don't see Christians going out of their way to talk down the crazies they just try to ignore them.

Yes and that is another problem on itself. "Apathy is death."
Ignoring bad things just to avoid getting "involved" is just as bad as doing bad things, in a sense. Every good people should stand agaisnt the bad ones, not just "let them be."

[Independent voter]

How does a guy who has been questioned twice in 2013 and 2014, and is on a terror watch list legally buy a gun?

Well, if they questioned him and didn't find anything wrong what are they supposed to do? Hell, he probably didn't know he was kill a bunch of people until a couple days ago.

Someone was saying he was unbalanced. I don't know if he was diagnosed with something or not.

[Renathras]

You're missing the point. The KKK feels there's a biblical basis for their hate. You disagree. ISIS feels they have a religious basis for their hate as well. And millions of Muslims disagree.

You don't have a lock on interpretation. What's happening here is that you're taking the side of ISIS on what Islam proscribes.

The problem with this is that Islam/Quran itself advocates for killing homosexual people. The Bible no where indicates white supremacy (particularly since the people of the Bible were all...well...Middle-Easterners.)

That is, the KKK has no real Biblical basis whereas ISIS has basis in Islamic teachings. At BEST, you could argue the KKK used the social order clause (the same thing that supports paying taxes - "render unto Caesar"), and Paul sending a letter to Philemon pleading for compassion for the escaped slave Onesimus (since questioning slavery in Roman times was...just not a thing). The KKK used this as justification for slavery, this is true, but that's all they had.

There was no direct command in the Bible to have slaves, to support slavery, or to lynch black people. Indeed, the Bible has explicit counters to things like this (for example "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" would seem apt when asking oneself "should I hang this black person for no good reason?")

Again, there's no comparison at all.

...and that's before realizing that the KKK has been in decline for decades and is no serious power in the modern world ANYWHERE while radical Islam is, and ISIS, in particular, is in a struggle and basically a de-facto country, as well as an outpost in Libya and another in Afghanistan, with more fighters scattered around in places like Yemen.

And that's JUST ISIS - we're not even talking Al Qaeda and Boko Haram, here.

When the KKK takes over half of Georgia and declares and runs themselves as an independent state, while also having an outpost colony in Portugal and another in Quebec. Oh, and while other radical Christian groups are fighting civil wars in Eastern Europe - Poland, perhaps? - and have terrorist cells scattered across greater Russia, Europe, the US/Canada, and Australia. Oh, and when a new book of the Bible is discovered that says white people are the supreme race, black people should be killed, slavery should be legal everywhere, etc.

When THAT happens...then we can state an equivalence with the KKK and ISIS.

Until then, white supremacy is in decline and the KKK is an empty group with no power and no backing in the Christian texts...and ISIS has a good deal of power, radical Islam is a thing, and has backing in the Muslim scriptures.

.

ALL.
THAT.
SAID:

I'm just responding to a false equivalence post. None of this even matters right now...
(I'm not even sure, honestly, why I bothered to respond to it, much less in such depth.)

[Ichifails]

You're talking about "importing more" like there's a quota we're trying to fill, and like this tragedy wasn't the result of someone that was born here. "No more immigration" wouldn't have stopped this native born citizen from attacking other citizens.

Have you been paying attention to Europe? Countries were literally given quotas. And he's a "native born citizen" with a father that aligns himself with the Talibans. Also you'll find out that usually 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants are much worse than their parents... and those are "native citizens".

[Wells]

Have you been paying attention to Europe? Countries were literally given quotas.

Our situation is not Europe

And he's a "native born citizen" with a father that aligns himself with the Talibans.

Guess who else was aligned with the Taliban around the time his father was a young man.

Also you'll find out that usually 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants are much worse than their parents... and those are "native citizens".

Why scare quotes? He's as much an American as anyone else.

[Vanyali]

Have you been paying attention to Europe? Countries were literally given quotas. And he's a "native born citizen" with a father that aligns himself with the Talibans. Also you'll find out that usually 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants are much worse than their parents... and those are "native citizens".

Yeah, you know why they were "given quotas" and from who? The union that they all belong to, that decided as a group to take in refugees. Not the REFUGEES. Christ. "people chose to do something, horror ensues when they do it!".

If the 2nd and 3rd generation are consistently failing, the problem isn't REFUGEES. the problem is that the native countries are failing utterly at helping to assimilate. It's a 2-way street, and a child doesn't decide he's not going to be part of a society on his own.

[Arcbound]

Everyone is asking what we could do to stop this. The hard truth is, there is nothing we can do. We could round up all Muslims and those who are mentally ill, but that has lead to worst things in the past. Trump's Muslim ban would not have stopped this. Banning semi autos would not have stopped this.

We live in a free society, if a person who has never committed a crime before decides to go crazy and start shooting people, there is nothing we can do to stop.

I always go back to legally blond in this situation. Happy people do not kill people. It is a stupid quote, but true. If we work on reducing stress, being more accepting, and reducing income inequality, it would actually do a lot. When people are less stressed by economic situations, sexual situations, and other aspects of their lives. Maybe they will see things improve.

[Eviscero]

Regarding Christians, the New Testament (which Christianity is based) says nothing of gays. The Old Testament does, but strict adherence to the Old Testament was called into question by Jesus when he cured people disease or plucked grain to eat on the Sabbath. Hardliners heavily criticized Jesus for this because the law stated to not work to the Sabbath. But Jesus was violating that law and defended it by saying the old covenant had been fulfilled by his sacrifice and a new covenant would replace all the old rules.

It was heavily debated as to whether or not to even include the Old Testament in the Christian faith. It is there but the New Testament trumps it. And the New Testament mentions nothing of gays.

Seeriously? There's LITERALLY a wiki entry on exactly this. Spoiler alert, it doesn't suggest tolerance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homose..._New_Testament

[Thepersona]

Did you miss the twitter posts of good god-fearing americans saying the same thing, or does that not fit your agenda?

that was the same thing i was thinking

[Blur4stuff]

The one thing I've never seen adequately explained from the pro-gun side is why other countries don't have similar stats to the USA regarding violence and homicide. I frequently read and hear that stricter gun laws and fewer guns in the country wouldn't matter because of "XX" and "YY" reason. In this case, they blame his religion and other things. With other crimes it's always something other than guns.

If this were true then other wealthy countries with stricter laws and fewer guns would have stats like the USA, right? Or at least somewhat close. I'm referring to crimes like homicide. Even those including firearms because something else we hear frequently is that removing guns only takes them out of the hand of law abiding citizens. Criminals will still have and use those guns.

So if any of this was remotely true then every other wealthy country would have our crime stats regarding homicide and firearm related crimes. We even share a border with Canada. If gun laws wouldn't help then they should have our murder rates and firearm crimes. So should Japan, or Australia, or ...