What I believe artifact weapons SHOULD have been.

[frogger237]

I don't get the "everyone is running around with the same weapon" cause we already do that, sure most aren't famous weapons but many still do have lore behind them. Infact we prob have less variation now as typically you get 1-4 new usable weapons each raid depending on your class.

[Sinndra]

I don't get the "everyone is running around with the same weapon" cause we already do that, sure most aren't famous weapons but many still do have lore behind them. Infact we prob have less variation now as typically you get 1-4 new usable weapons each raid depending on your class.

this. i mean im really with you here. new raid comes out? people of your class ends up with the same weapon as you. new raid comes out, we all toss old weapons into void storage once we get the new raid's weapon... and we again all run around with the same weapon (except of course visually if you transmog, but its still the same weapon underneath).

[Ielenia]

My explanation of how the artifact system should have worked is a far better implementation that what they did.

I'm just going to quote yourself as you have provided the perfect reply to that argument of yours:

That is entirely opinion based.

The difference being that the true BIS weapon would have come from higher-difficulty raiding, which not everyone does.

This bit right here tells me you are not playing beta right now. The weapon is not simply 'level it up and you're done', no. You get "runes" that you get as award from quests, dungeons and raiding, that gives a bonus rank to one (or more) skills on your artifact weapon and also gives it bonus item levels, making it stronger. Logically, the higher the difficulty level of the task (quest, dungeon, raid, and heroic/mythic versions of those), the higher the rune level.

EVERYONE will have the same weapon. The EXACT SAME. There will be no tiers of progression, just from the simple get go, even before max level, everyone is going to be using the exact same weapon.

I've leveled from level 90 to level 100 and raided normal Highmaul to heroic HFC using the exact same weapon graphic. Every time I got a new weapon I'd transmog the exact same weapon model. How would that be different from what's going to be in Legion?

A guild that could clear 100% of a mythic raid, or whatever, would have the absolute best in slot weapons, but a guy from a guild that was only 50% mythic content cleared, would be using a different mythic weapon as best in slot, because they couldn't currently get the true "best in slot" weapon.

They would likely have the exact same weapon, only heroic version instead of mythic, where the graphical difference is simply a palette difference, nothing else.

That is the difference here.

So... none?

[Thage]

If you're that set against using a weapon everyone else has, OP, transmog it. What's going on in Legion with Artifacts is the same thing that happens every tier, the only difference now is how your weapon looks is tied to a unified theme (the base weapon), rather than to the raid boss you got it from. High-end raiders and PvPers get special snowflake skins and the best relics in the game, which give them the best weapons in the game. Off the top of my head, exactly three of them were famous prior to their introduction in Legion (and one of them not even that; it's created from the leftovers of a famous weapon); the overwhelming majority of these weapons are either from niche lore (like Kael'thas's blade) or were created from whole cloth (pretty much every other artifact).

Outside the Ashbringer, the Frost DK runeblades, Doomhammer, and Kael's sword, none of these weapons had so much as a tertiary role in the lore prior to their introductions and the retcons included in their quest chain. And we're getting the Ashbringer, Doomhammer, what's left of Frostmourne, and Kael's sword because Legion is Blizzard's big, shiny "oh shit" button in the face of WoD taking on water faster than the Titanic.

[Kyr]

honestly the same weapon thing is not an issue at all. there are what 6 different models per weapon with 4 color variations each? that is not much different than it has been for a long time except they all just have the same name now.

the custom weapon/model idea is actually a good idea in theory, but stop and think about the game code and the art designers that have to create these custom designs. it is just not realistically possible without making very basic and shitty looking weapons.

[Radaney]

Your reasons are bad.

[Flaks]

You think artifact weapons are cool. Fine. That doesn't make them a good idea. Custom-forged weapons would have had the exact same progression, and it would have been far more meaningful and impactful than just using the same artifact as everyone else.

And yes I know you can transmog, by giving people the choice between artifact-looking designed weapons, or some run-of-the-mill transmog from a previous xpac, there really isn't a choice.

Yes, custom forged weapons would somehow have been equivalent to wielding Ashbringer. "Oh no other people have Ashbringer too now I don't feel as special for wielding it!" Well you can't have a great personal story for your character AND be a part of an MMO without breaking a few rules.

[Soeroah]

Honestly, Artifacts are way more customisable than any weapon so far.

There are enough skin and model variations that they offer a variety of appearances competitive with other expansions, despite "everyone" using "the same" weapon. But if you don't like it, you still have transmog, which plenty of people are already doing over their BiS WoD weapons, so maybe this point is moot.

On the mechanics side, it's not "everyone has the exact same weapon", and there are certainly tiers of progression. For one, while leveling up, and for several months at max level, people will have different Traits picked in their Artifacts, meaning two Holy Paladins can have the "same weapon" with different buffs and abilities from each other. But even if you ignore that because "eventually everyone will have all traits maxed", it's still not true, because the Relics alter ilevel AND increase a certain Trait by another level, meaning two people with "the exact same fully-leveled Artifact" can pick different Relics for their three options, giving them different final iLevels, and different buffed-up Traits.

For example, my level 106 Demon Hunter has a Relic that gives his Artifact +11 ilevels and +1 rank to the Metamorphosis cooldown reduction trait, but I could have chosen a +13 ilevel Relic that gave an extra 10% damage to Blade Dance per enemy within 10 yards of him. That's customisation right there. That's variety.

Even at max level, the Relics you can get will be varied in terms of power and capability, depending on how you play. Mythic raiders will get higher iLevel Relics than World Quest-focused players, and thus their Artifacts will be more powerful.

Everyone might start off with the Best-In-Slot weapon at the beginning of the expansion, but you still have to do a lot of progression to actually achieve its potential as Best-In-Slot.

[Wondercrab]

I agree that it would've been cooler to make our own weapons rather than going down the immersion-shattering route of giving everyone the exact same story and shiny item to constantly remind you of it. That goes for pretty much everything about the completely inappropriate single player storytelling them continue to push in WoW, though.

The customisation might've been tricky to do, but would've been very fun indeed. I like the naming idea especially, if you were able to choose a short title from a series of preset words. Much like the garrison, I'd care way more about my artifact weapon if it was actually *mine*, as opposed to Blizzard Fun Template #32B.

[Talsar]

Artifacts have resulted in a LOT more (and higher quality) weapon designs than has been seen in any previous expansion. the biggest crime imo is that they may never be available to transmog.

[Lady Dragonheart]

A weapon is only numbers/stats, the appearance is moggable. Unless having the icon in your Stat Screen is the aspect that is bothering you.

[Magnagarde]

These are all weapons that were the property of extremely big characters in the lore and the weapons themselves have a huge meaning in the story. Having ordinary players wield these is a far-fetched concept that I think is pretty bad. Making these weapons available and that by default is wrong in my opinion. These are the most iconic weapons in the entire Warcraft universe. Each single weapon could've been the end-tier legendary weapon of an entire expansion.

Once you see a hundred Paladin walking around with the Ashbringer, that weapon will lose its charm, its meaning and its importance. I mean, just think about it; thousands of players will wield the sword that shattered Frostmourne. You can transmog it, yes, but that doesn't change the fact that everyone is running around with weapons that have an enormeous reputation, but are recieved by default. These artifact weapons should never have been available to the player. Some of them should've become end-tier raid rewards that have a super low drop chance and should take a long and hard-to-complete questline to obtain(ie Alleria's bow), but the Ashbringer should not have been wielded by anyone else but Tirion. Same applies for Atiesh and so many other weapons.

The story can develop around certain characters that are important, not around every single player. Players should be in the focus, yes, but in the focal point of a storyline dictated by major characters whose storyline we follow and make possible by assisting them. They can make the players stand in the centre of action without having to give them the most iconic items there are in the entire Warcraft universe.

Artifact weapons are pretty much the only thing I dislike about Legion.

[Xenryusho]

It's absolutely no different than things are now. Everyone in a class is using the same weapon, and xmogging it to something different. I don't know where you're seeing this amazing variety of weapons... Fel-burning blade, Hellrender, or Calamitys edge based on where you've progressed up to. And they all function exactly the same. They're stat sticks.

These are all weapons that were the property of extremely big characters in the lore and the weapons themselves have a huge meaning in the story. Having ordinary players wield these is a far-fetched concept that I think is pretty bad.

Yea. The guy who got kicked out of the order because he befriended an orc vs the guy who killed illidan, fought lich king for 10 minutes while tirion chilled out, rode deathwing into thralls spirit bomb, fought off the manifestations of Anger, Despair, Fear, Hatred, Doubt, Pride, and Violence, kicked archimonds ass back to the stoneage TWICE. Totally un-befitting for the latter to have a cool sword.

I don't know why players are so intent on treating their characters are dumpster children who don't know how to lift a knife drooling before every lore character in existence.

[Deathquoi]

These are all weapons that were the property of extremely big characters in the lore and the weapons themselves have a huge meaning in the story. Having ordinary players wield these is a far-fetched concept that I think is pretty bad. Making these weapons available and that by default is wrong in my opinion. These are the most iconic weapons in the entire Warcraft universe. Each single weapon could've been the end-tier legendary weapon of an entire expansion.

Once you see a hundred Paladin walking around with the Ashbringer, that weapon will lose its charm, its meaning and its importance. I mean, just think about it; thousands of players will wield the sword that shattered Frostmourne. You can transmog it, yes, but that doesn't change the fact that everyone is running around with weapons that have an enormeous reputation, but are recieved by default. These artifact weapons should never have been available to the player. Some of them should've become end-tier raid rewards that have a super low drop chance and should take a long and hard-to-complete questline to obtain(ie Alleria's bow), but the Ashbringer should not have been wielded by anyone else but Tirion. Same applies for Atiesh and so many other weapons.

The story can develop around certain characters that are important, not around every single player. Players should be in the focus, yes, but in the focal point of a storyline dictated by major characters whose storyline we follow and make possible by assisting them. They can make the players stand in the centre of action without having to give them the most iconic items there are in the entire Warcraft universe.

Artifact weapons are pretty much the only thing I dislike about Legion.

The player character has defeated Ragnaros (twice), Nefarian (twice), Kel'Thuzad, Illidan, Lady Vashj, Archimonde, Kil'Jaeden, Blackhand, multiple Old Gods, the Lich King, servants of the Titans, and Deathwing. The player character has accomplished more than any lore character.

[Magnagarde]

The player character has defeated Ragnaros (twice), Nefarian (twice), Kel'Thuzad, Illidan, Lady Vashj, Archimonde, Kil'Jaeden, Blackhand, multiple Old Gods, the Lich King, servants of the Titans, and Deathwing. The player character has accomplished more than any lore character.

Not alone though and not with in a group with 39 Atiest, Ashbringers, post-Frostmournes, Felo'melorns and other weapons duplicated, quadruplicated and more. The quest to the defeat of these enemies was paved by the stories of the important lore characters/was completed with the help of the important lore characters(ie Deathwing) and many of the ones on your list haven't even been defeated because they either can't be defeated or because they were banished. Come to think of it, all the enemies you've listed actually are important lore characters.

The point isn't in accomplishment only, but about guiding the narrative. An individual player can't guide any narrative, but an important lore character can.

You can have great and important player-based characters without giving them millions of artifact weapons which would otherwise be owned by 10 known characters. If they wanted to make every player special, then they should've made it possible to make customizable weapons that won't be taken from Tirion, Alleria or some other lore character, but they'd have the players forge their own weapons.

[Wildmoon]

The difference being that the true BIS weapon would have come from higher-difficulty raiding, which not everyone does. EVERYONE will have the same weapon. The EXACT SAME. There will be no tiers of progression, just from the simple get go, even before max level, everyone is going to be using the exact same weapon. There were, previously, multiple versions of the "best in slot" weapon for a spec, depending on how far your guild got raiding. That is no longer the case.

A guild that could clear 100% of a mythic raid, or whatever, would have the absolute best in slot weapons, but a guy from a guild that was only 50% mythic content cleared, would be using a different mythic weapon as best in slot, because they couldn't currently get the true "best in slot" weapon. That is the difference here.

What? Mythic, Heroic and Normal weapons look the same with different colours. If you are talking about stats then mythic raiders in Legion will have better relics too.

[Deathquoi]

Not alone though and not with in a group with 39 Atiest, Ashbringers, post-Frostmournes, Felo'melorns and other weapons duplicated, quadruplicated and more. The quest to the defeat of these enemies was paved by the stories of the important lore characters/was completed with the help of the important lore characters(ie Deathwing) and many of the ones on your list haven't even been defeated because they either can't be defeated or because they were banished. Come to think of it, all the enemies you've listed actually are important lore characters.

The point isn't in accomplishment only, but about guiding the narrative. An individual player can't guide any narrative, but an important lore character can.

You can have great and important player-based characters without giving them millions of artifact weapons which would otherwise be owned by 10 known characters. If they wanted to make every player special, then they should've made it possible to make customizable weapons that won't be taken from Tirion, Alleria or some other lore character, but they'd have the players forge their own weapons.

Are you the OP's sock puppet account or something?

[TyrannicalPuppy]

You think artifact weapons are cool. Fine. That doesn't make them a good idea. Custom-forged weapons would have had the exact same progression, and it would have been far more meaningful and impactful than just using the same artifact as everyone else.

And yes I know you can transmog, by giving people the choice between artifact-looking designed weapons, or some run-of-the-mill transmog from a previous xpac, there really isn't a choice.

Don't discount that idea just because we're using lore artefacts now. This could be a system to test the waters before they throw their resources into far more customisable artefacts in the future. Think of this as being a test, just like the farm was for the garrison.

- - - Updated - - -

The difference being that the true BIS weapon would have come from higher-difficulty raiding, which not everyone does. EVERYONE will have the same weapon. The EXACT SAME. There will be no tiers of progression, just from the simple get go, even before max level, everyone is going to be using the exact same weapon. There were, previously, multiple versions of the "best in slot" weapon for a spec, depending on how far your guild got raiding. That is no longer the case.

A guild that could clear 100% of a mythic raid, or whatever, would have the absolute best in slot weapons, but a guy from a guild that was only 50% mythic content cleared, would be using a different mythic weapon as best in slot, because they couldn't currently get the true "best in slot" weapon. That is the difference here.

The multiple versions of the BiS weapon were recolourations, not entirely new weapons. This is the EXACT same as the artefact.

And you know what? Artefact skin and colour variations are unlocked by doing more than just raiding at a higher end (completing increasingly difficult Mythic+ dungeons being one such example).

- - - Updated - - -

That's really my only complaint about artifacts is that if I get a dagger, I'm stuck using daggers and I don't really like the way most daggers look.

That's still the same as BiS weapons, though. Sure, you can use different weapons as it stands now but you're only hindering yourself in-so-doing.

[SoulSoBreezy]

I'll be blunt, I don't like the idea of artifact weapons. I don't like the idea that everyone is going to be running around with the same weapons. I am aware there are different skins, but not more than 4-6 per weapon. Some will never get used because they are terrible, but even then the variation is going to be very, very limited. Not to mention that fact that it is just an awful lore travesty, in a world where we didn't need more destroyed lore.

What would have been a far better implementation of this system would have been the ability to forge our own new weapon, using essence or pieces of the current artifacts. We would be given the option during forging to adjust how the hilt looks, how the blade looks, how the handguard is designed, what type of weapon it is, a variety of colours, ect. Ultimately, we would have also been able to give it a name of our own choosing. Or at least, a template of options for names, like a list of prefixes and suffixes, and then connecting words if necessary (to prevent people from just calling it "Big black dildo"). They could have been implemented the exact same way, with a true feeling of custimization and the weapon having been forged for us.

I am a bit surprised that artifacts aren't getting the lashback that Garrisons got, but perhaps Garrisons didn't start getting hate until after people realized what they were. This system, in its current design, is going to end up the same way. Its going to be, ultimately, boring.

It can be. Just not now.
Something that folks don't talk about much with the artifact weapons is what came along with them - updated attack animations tailored to that weapon type. If attack animations weren't on the production table, maybe we'd have more freedom of the type of weapon we'd create, and the approach to artifact weapons would be different.
Of course we're not going in that direction. Along with the whole "class fantasy" phrase is the reason (excuse?) to restrict the artifact weapon types to one thing.

As for comparing it to the garrison systems? How can this be compared at all? I'd advise rechecking your emotions before making flawed statements.

But like I said, I can see a "Personal Weapon" system in a future expansion, where the focus is well, something more personal and gets into our own character's development.

[Florena]

These are all weapons that were the property of extremely big characters in the lore and the weapons themselves have a huge meaning in the story. Having ordinary players wield these is a far-fetched concept that I think is pretty bad. Making these weapons available and that by default is wrong in my opinion. These are the most iconic weapons in the entire Warcraft universe. Each single weapon could've been the end-tier legendary weapon of an entire expansion.

Once you see a hundred Paladin walking around with the Ashbringer, that weapon will lose its charm, its meaning and its importance. I mean, just think about it; thousands of players will wield the sword that shattered Frostmourne. You can transmog it, yes, but that doesn't change the fact that everyone is running around with weapons that have an enormeous reputation, but are recieved by default. These artifact weapons should never have been available to the player. Some of them should've become end-tier raid rewards that have a super low drop chance and should take a long and hard-to-complete questline to obtain(ie Alleria's bow), but the Ashbringer should not have been wielded by anyone else but Tirion. Same applies for Atiesh and so many other weapons.

The story can develop around certain characters that are important, not around every single player. Players should be in the focus, yes, but in the focal point of a storyline dictated by major characters whose storyline we follow and make possible by assisting them. They can make the players stand in the centre of action without having to give them the most iconic items there are in the entire Warcraft universe.

Artifact weapons are pretty much the only thing I dislike about Legion.

Very few of them are actually big name weapons in the story. Most artifacts seem to have been made up just for Legion. Sure, you have the Doomhammer and Ashbringer, and the fire mage sword that was in a novel or two.

Then you have things like garona's daggers, which while Garona is the quintessential rogue in Warcraft, before I don't recall her daggers being anything special. The Outlaw and Sub weapons were made up on the spot. The arcane and frost staffs are tied to lore characters, but weren't pre existing weapons with any weight to them. Off the top of my head only doomhammer, ashbringer and to a lesser extent the fire mage sword have had a role in the story prior. Most of these seem to be entirely new weapons. Tied to existing lore and characters, sure, but the bulk of them are new to the lore and haven't been mentioned before.