[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Tempguy]

Yeah, I am not liking the jaime arc.

Call me an elitist snob, but i am not liking the current season's quality. It feels kinda, meh. People are starting to do stupid fantasy trope type stuff and I always felt that this show/book was supposed to NOT be that.

- Why is Jaime going back to cersi? I get that he still cares, but he is basically going back to Season 1 on this shit.
- Khaleesi needs to die in a fucking fire. It was cool when she came back though, but I am sick of her being a one woman god lord.
- Blackfish choosing to stay and die vs going to help his niece. The child of his dead sister who he loved and was murdered? FUCK THAT!
- The masters are back to wage war? I don't even care at this point. Just waiting for Yara to come get some.


It doesn't feel real anymore. I am not talking about dragon's and non burning women and greenseeing. I am talking about the way people think and how they act. They are moving from being real living people to generic fantasy personalities. It's fucking dull and they can do better.

Edit:

And another thing. Tommen suddenly fucking his mom over like that? I get that he likes the vajayjay, but I don't see how a momma's boy like that would straight up betray her so hard.

And that Arya arc was good, but the Waif turning into the T600 was ficking dumb. Holy shit that was dumb. So so dumb. I wanted to just skip that altogether. I cannot emphasize how dumb that was.

Clegane was the only person i felt was actually a human and not some trope. And they took Cleganebowl from us.

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Arya's story arc in Braavos didn't go nowhere. She's now a highly trained assassin that isn't lost anymore. She knows and accepts who she is and wasn't willing to give that up. She came out stronger, deadlier and smarter, while also finding her way and not running from her past anymore.

To be fair, she could have accomplished this without Braavos. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate her arc, just playing devi's advocate.

She had training from Syrio. He gave her the basics of seeing with her eyes and using her senses and all that water dancing stuff. She wouldn't be an assassin, perse, but she'd be lethal enough to contend with one. Think of Samurai vs ninja. Imagine a Faceless man coming after Syrio, he'd be a hard kill and you wouldn't be sure who would win.

So I am saying she could have took those basics and learned from her experiences after, and learn some stuff from Sandor. She could easily have kept a false identity and focused on her own training or whatever. Probably would not have been as good (depending on how it's fleshed out) but where she is now is basically where she was years ago.

The only real change is now she can wear people's faces and knows of poisoning and shit. And she lost her list.

[Deleted]

It kind of amazes me how people seem unable to grasp the flow of time in these episodes. Some episodes have covered the span of weeks, it is highly plausible that, for example, Arya had been under the care of Lady Crane long enough to heal enough to survive the street chase. It is also very obvious that Arya had a plan in this situation as she very deliberately lead the waif to that location. This episode also marks the end of her training, expect to see a very vengeful Arya from here on out as she takes out all those who remain on her list.

People here seem to think Jaime is acting out of character... lolwut? The dude bluffed his way through a conversation with Edmure in order to end the siege with as few deaths as possible. He actually values his honour now and upholds his oath to never attack a Stark or Tully again. How is this him reverting to his asshole season 1 version?

Also pretty obvious that Jaime is going to end up reliving the Mad King scenario once more, only this time with his sister. All his character building with the oaths and regaining his honour will culminate in that moment when he runs his sword through Cersei. Hopefully this time he does it in front of important people so they can see his actions are justified. This also paves the way for Jaime to bring the Lannister army into the inevitable ragtag alliance that will face off against the white walkers.

I will agree though that Blackfish and Mereen were handled really poorly, though that is understandable with Mereen stuff, that crap is ALWAYS boring.

Jaime will redeem himself. In previous seasons he went through the book with names of all the Kingsguards. His section listed some type of 'mocking' which earned him the title Kingslayer. His section in the book has nothing. Everybody who reads the Jaime Lanister section will laugh, no honorable deeds.

He's going to earn his place in that book. He's going to be awesome.

[Deleted]

Edmur just givin g up Riverrun, Not showing the blackfish fight, not showing the fight between the waif and Arya, too much time spent running, no stoneheart, this was the worst episode of the season.

I agree.
The Blackfish deserved a heroic on screen death not a meek "he died fighting my lord".

Bleh. At least Sandor is back.

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I just want it to happen nooow. /whine I'm tired of waiting for shit to hit the fan.

Gotta wonder what Cersei is scheming now that she just lost her trial by combat.

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I've got a feeling they're saving that for the very end.

Wildfire left over from the mad king.
Think nuke under the city.

Forshadowed to fuck by Jaime's speech "burn city to ash" bit.

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Yeah, I wouldn't expect Lancel to die yet but they had like 6 or 7 Faith Militant there. I was hoping for at least one follow-up attacker that would get slammed into a wall repeatedly or something :P I was so hyped by the "I choose violence" line that I was a bit let down by the lack of violence lol.

He ripped a guys head and spine off.

Granted only one dude, but still fairly hardcore.

Love that the sparrows went back to the HS and went "Uhhh nobody can beat that thing, best avoid the fight."

[Daevelian]

Jaime will redeem himself. In previous seasons he went through the book with names of all the Kingsguards. His section listed some type of 'mocking' which earned him the title Kingslayer. His section in the book has nothing. Everybody who reads the Jaime Lanister section will laugh, no honorable deeds.

He's going to earn his place in that book. He's going to be awesome.

Aye, i've read the books, and it seems to be that he will end up following the exact same path, possibly delayed a bit due to previous changes in the show. Cersei in this episode forshadowed becoming the very thing Jaime broke his oath to kill previously, it seems to me that they want it all to build up in that moment with a more obvious transition than the gradual process that occured in the books.

Hell, if we really want to have fun with it, i am sure we could super-impose Jaime's head onto Darth Vader, Cersei's head onto the emperor and a picture of Kings Landing over Luke skywalker during the scene where Vader throws the emperor down the shaft.

[Blueobelisk]

Feels a little bit odd for "Jaqen" to let go Arya this easily, but again.. all this time she was kinda special for him. Maybe some day we'll know the reason why.

The only reason they needed her in the first place was because the Faceless gods demanded a face. Arya failed to take the actor so the No One girl was going to take Arya's. But Arya's ended up offering the No One girl's face so the debt has been paid. No reason for Arya to need to die anymore.

[Tempguy]

The only reason they needed her in the first place was because the Faceless gods demanded a face. Arya failed to take the actor so the No One girl was going to take Arya's. But Arya's ended up offering the No One girl's face so the debt has been paid. No reason for Arya to need to die anymore.

Wut?

Hold on...They needed a face so they were like, "Oh yeah let's have her join us so we can take her face." That makes no sense. She was cool with Jaqen since before then and I was under the impression that he saw potential in her so that is why he allowed her. And that is why he died for her.

And the Waif was supposed to kill her because she basically rolled in, said she could hang, and decided she couldn't hack it. You don't learn those kind of skills and then be allowed to back out. So of course she had to be killed.

So she kills the Waif-600 and peels the artificial flesh from her titanium skull. The debt has been paid. Understood. The target had been killed as per contract and a life paid for a life and a face was added.

But why let her leave? Is that how it works?

"I think I changed my mind. I quit."

"No! You can't quit! You must die!"

/Kills a Faceless man

"Oh, you figured out the secret loophole.You are now No One after all. Or you can leave. "

"I am leaving"

"Okay cool. Peace. Was nice hanging with you. Don't worry about the fact that my other bro died for you so you could get a second chance. And you murdered my assistant. Take care"

That is what happened. It was stupid. The scene was perfect at just showing the Waif's face. If jaqen gave a little smile it would have been GOLD. But they put Arya there, threatening him, and he allowed her to walk out. They ruined a perfect scene.

[Deleted]

Also, the moment Varys said he's going to look for more help, Aegon suddenly came to my mind.. but nah, it's too late for them to include him in the show.
Tho I'd love if Varys decided long ago that Daenerys' plan wasn't going to work, and choose to back up another cause; he doesn't seem to be doing his best under Dany's command.

I am scared he is going to Dorne (long Targ allies + hate Lannisters) to bring the bad pussy back

[Mitters]

Don't tell me that is all we get to see of Robert Strong... I want to see him cleave Lancel and the entire faith militant in half

[Hawthorne Wipes]

I am scared he is going to Dorne (long Targ allies + hate Lannisters) to bring the bad pussy back

Daenerys and the bad pussies together in screen..
Hope the WW kill them all before

[Adp]

That is what happened. It was stupid. The scene was perfect at just showing the Waif's face. If jaqen gave a little smile it would have been GOLD. But they put Arya there, threatening him, and he allowed her to walk out. They ruined a perfect scene.

Jaqen did smile at her when she said she was Arya Stark and going back to Westeros. I think he smiled, nodded, and then smiled again. Seems like it was part of his plan.

[Deleted]

Aye, i've read the books, and it seems to be that he will end up following the exact same path, possibly delayed a bit due to previous changes in the show. Cersei in this episode forshadowed becoming the very thing Jaime broke his oath to kill previously, it seems to me that they want it all to build up in that moment with a more obvious transition than the gradual process that occured in the books.

Hell, if we really want to have fun with it, i am sure we could super-impose Jaime's head onto Darth Vader, Cersei's head onto the emperor and a picture of Kings Landing over Luke skywalker during the scene where Vader throws the emperor down the shaft.

Seems it's going that way indeed! The only difference will be that this time, Jaime won't be in time to save Kings Landing from doom. I can't wait for the final episodes. Last 2-3 episodes weren't really jaw dropping. We'll get them now.

Wouldn't surprise me that the Lannister bloodline stop to exist by the time Game of Thrones is finished. Tywin wanted the bloodline to go on for a long time. Don't think he'll get his wish.

[Beefsquatch]

I think showing the "hero" to be trusting and compassionate is important. It was stupid of her, but it lets us see that Arya is still Arya. She's not a robot that can kill and walk around without emotions. It also shows us that Arya makes mistakes, further emphasizing her vulnerability and humanity not being lost.

Also, I wouldn't say it's bad writing when the "injured hero" fights the "bad guy" who's a better fighter. We see her prevail against all odds. And when she does, she faces Jaqen as a confident Arya Stark - not a no one. He respected that, and in a way, I think he always knew she'd leave.

She lived and learned.

What, no way. Arya, even before being trained by the faceless men has always been smart and ahead of the game. She literally just left them and knew they were coming after her, in episode 7 she was seemingly preparing for a face off. So it doesn't make sense that she would be careless like that. It undermines not only her character, but the intensive training she went through. Almost like she learned nothing at all from her time with them, aside learning to fight. I also don't see how it would make her any less human or compassionate that she be on her toes when the world's most dangerous assassins are after her.

Her being injured and fighting off the waif isn't the bad writing, it's everything that lead up to it. The chase sequence by termiwaif 1000 didn't help either. It would have also been nice to at least hear the scuffle when they fought in the dark. That would have been cool..but nope, off screen.

1. Getting Jaime away from King's Landing so that when Cersei burns it down ( it will happen, they foreshadowed it massively ) Jaime is a changed man and strangles her.

2. The Waif is a shit assassin.

3. Plot bullshit

4. LSH won't show up. Blackfish Stoneheart HYPE

1. It's still shitty in the way they executed it. Fine, get Jaime away and send him to riverrun, but to end that arc in the fashion that they did. Breh...

2. Apparently lol

3. Agreed

4. What is hype may never die

[Tempguy]

Jaqen did smile at her when she said she was Arya Stark and going back to Westeros. I think he smiled, nodded, and then smiled again. Seems like it was part of his plan.

What I meant was

- Jaqen follows blood
- Jaqen sees face and knows Arya survived
- Jaqen smiles despite himself cause he has a soft spot for her
- Fade to black

What we got was Arya back in the scene which ruins it all since it makes no real sense. It ruins an otherwise great scene. It's like if the hero of a movie kills the LT bad guy and escapes by the skin of their teeth. But then shows up in front of the main bad guy because ????? reasons???? and the main bad guy let's him walk away.

(Just an example. Not gonna argue semantics if some people take that statement to mean Jaqen is a supervillian)

Anyway, that would ruin the scene and bring up questions like I had above. It's stupid when you play it all out and look at what just happened.

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What, no way. Arya, even before being trained by the faceless men has always been smart and ahead of the game. She literally just left them and knew they were coming after her, in episode 7 she was seemingly preparing for a face off. So it doesn't make sense that she would be careless like that. It undermines not only her character, but the intensive training she went through. Almost like she learned nothing at all from her time with them, aside learning to fight. I also don't see how it would make her any less human or compassionate that she be on her toes when the world's most dangerous assassins are after her.

Her being injured and fighting off the waif isn't the bad writing, it's everything that lead up to it. The chase sequence by termiwaif 1000 didn't help either. It would have also been nice to at least hear the scuffle when they fought in the dark. That would have been cool..but nope, off screen.



1. It's still shitty in the way they executed it. Fine, get Jaime away and send him to riverrun, but to end that arc in the fashion that they did. Breh...

2. Apparently lol

3. Agreed

4. What is hype may never die

Agreed. I think that is why folks hate she wasn't secretly Jaqen. That would make sense. But her suddenly forgetting she is on the run from an organization of super lethal assassins that can face swap more than Mission Impossible movie just screams of poor writing.

Oh yeah, And this organization can find you and kill you no matter what your status or what part of the world you are in and you are still in the city across the pond from their HQ...

Sure, she would have totally got some new clothes, done up her hair, and taken a leisurely stroll and stop to admire the sunset. And when a random old lady would approach, she would forget that no one literally gave a shit about her when she was blind and think that a stranger is totally just there to chat.

[Tommy T]

The next two episodes have to be Hardhome-esque if they're going to salvage this season.
Although, I'm glad LSH didn't happen. Awful in the books. Would be even worse on the show.

Feels like the writing has gone shit ever since they ran out of book material.

[Gib Lover]

This was a strong contender for worst episode of the entire series, and I'm really trying to not be hyperbolic. I can't think of a worse episode off the top of my head.

[pateuvasiliu]

Yeah, I am not liking the jaime arc.

Call me an elitist snob, but i am not liking the current season's quality. It feels kinda, meh. People are starting to do stupid fantasy trope type stuff and I always felt that this show/book was supposed to NOT be that.

- Why is Jaime going back to cersi? I get that he still cares, but he is basically going back to Season 1 on this shit.
- Khaleesi needs to die in a fucking fire. It was cool when she came back though, but I am sick of her being a one woman god lord.
- Blackfish choosing to stay and die vs going to help his niece. The child of his dead sister who he loved and was murdered? FUCK THAT!
- The masters are back to wage war? I don't even care at this point. Just waiting for Yara to come get some.


It doesn't feel real anymore. I am not talking about dragon's and non burning women and greenseeing. I am talking about the way people think and how they act. They are moving from being real living people to generic fantasy personalities. It's fucking dull and they can do better.

Edit:

And another thing. Tommen suddenly fucking his mom over like that? I get that he likes the vajayjay, but I don't see how a momma's boy like that would straight up betray her so hard.

And that Arya arc was good, but the Waif turning into the T600 was ficking dumb. Holy shit that was dumb. So so dumb. I wanted to just skip that altogether. I cannot emphasize how dumb that was.

Clegane was the only person i felt was actually a human and not some trope. And they took Cleganebowl from us.

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To be fair, she could have accomplished this without Braavos. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate her arc, just playing devi's advocate.

She had training from Syrio. He gave her the basics of seeing with her eyes and using her senses and all that water dancing stuff. She wouldn't be an assassin, perse, but she'd be lethal enough to contend with one. Think of Samurai vs ninja. Imagine a Faceless man coming after Syrio, he'd be a hard kill and you wouldn't be sure who would win.

So I am saying she could have took those basics and learned from her experiences after, and learn some stuff from Sandor. She could easily have kept a false identity and focused on her own training or whatever. Probably would not have been as good (depending on how it's fleshed out) but where she is now is basically where she was years ago.

The only real change is now she can wear people's faces and knows of poisoning and shit. And she lost her list.

Tommen isn't betraying his mom, he just thinks she's innocent. He has no idea he's a bastard. When he finds out he'll kill himself.

[Tempguy]

Tommen isn't betraying his mom, he just thinks she's innocent. He has no idea he's a bastard. When he finds out he'll kill himself.

Good point. I'll buy that for $3.50

[Lime]

This was a strong contender for worst episode of the entire series, and I'm really trying to not be hyperbolic. I can't think of a worse episode off the top of my head.

Idk... anything including the Dorne plot post-Marcella was awful. I can't remember which episode that was tied to, though.

[Gib Lover]

Idk... anything including the Dorne plot post-Marcella was awful. I can't remember which episode that was tied to, though.

That was episode 1 of this season, which at the time was considered the worst episode of the series. I think this one has it beat.

[Frozen Death Knight]

Man, it was so satisfying seeing one of the Sparrows getting himself killed by being incredibly stupid when facing off against the undead Mountain. They actually thought they could take on a giant of a being with robes and blunt weapons with spikes. Cute, but incredibly stupid.