Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[voidillusion]

It's a conflict of interests for Blizzard.


Ofc it is. They can't just take people out of Legion (and future expansion/patch) development because the result would be exactly what you're talking about. Which would leave only one option: hire more people. Well if you're going to do that then why not just use those new people to develop the live game?

Because as explained many times by Blizzard and other companys, teams reach a point in size where hiring lets say 10 ppl translates more like into hiring 7.5. Team size multiplication in teams of 250+ ppl (i though it was what last enterview was mentioned as being current wow team) isn't as simple as that.

[Relapses]

Maybe those "pro-Legacy" folks concept of sucess for Legion is way different from yours. I want it to succeed, i love the game, always had, and i honestly want it to succeed. But the pattern Cata->Pandaria->Wod and now Legion doesn't make the outcome look to favorable.

Also wanting Legion to succeed and at the same time wanting Classic server(s) to be available are in no mean a conflict of interests. Only in the "anti-legacy" folks mind (using your own terms) that's a conflict because most automatically associate that with less commitment to developing live wow.

I was more pointing out the contention it seems of some players to hasten the downfall of WoW to the point where Legacy becomes viable since that's something which interests them.

Also, I apologize for speaking in broad terms but it's sometimes difficult to appropriate the feelings of players without compartmentalizing them into apposing factions. It's one of the reasons I've avoided posting in this thread as frequently as I used to.

[Deleted]

You can have that opinion but I question the number of pro-Legacy people who actively want Legion to fail just so they can have their cake and eat it, too. I think we're all WoW fans here and it's saddening to see so many people clamoring for Blizzard to fail just so they can say, "I told you so."

Blizzard have already failed this game. Whether people *want* Legion to fail (in the financial sense) is besides the point, it's all the same to me, I'm just venting the saltiness left behind by the Nost shut-down. We'll see how everything turns out in a few months. Since Blizzard green lighted a movie for this universe they are obviously interested in the franchise staying alive, so they are desperate enough to consider Legacy servers. That's why they invited the Nost team over and haven't done so with any other private server team. The Nost people are the best however, so no surprise why they chose them. Maybe it is just damage control and PR though, we have no way of knowing, but the track record of Blizzard doing what is strategically best for them speaks volumes. Not that it worked for WoD, but still.

[Kyanion]

Blizzard have already failed this game. Whether people *want* Legion to fail (in the financial sense) is besides the point, it's all the same to me, I'm just venting the saltiness left behind by the Nost shut-down. We'll see how everything turns out in a few months. Since Blizzard green lighted a movie for this universe they are obviously interested in the franchise staying alive, so they are desperate enough to consider Legacy servers. That's why they invited the Nost team over and haven't done so with any other private server team. The Nost people are the best however, so no surprise why they chose them. Maybe it is just damage control and PR though, we have no way of knowing, but the track record of Blizzard doing what is strategically best for them speaks volumes. Not that it worked for WoD, but still.

Nothing about inviting the Nost people over smacked over desperation. I get it, you hate current wow. Blizz didn't fail the game, they fucked up with a really shit expansion with a painful drought. We'll see if they learned from it with Legion or not. I'm sorry but a game with 4mil subs and likely many more coming back for Legion is not 'failing'. Every other paid MMO in the world WISHES they had those kinds of numbers.

[voidillusion]

Nothing about inviting the Nost people over smacked over desperation. I get it, you hate current wow. Blizz didn't fail the game, they fucked up with a really shit expansion with a painful drought. We'll see if they learned from it with Legion or not. I'm sorry but a game with 4mil subs and likely many more coming back for Legion is not 'failing'. Every other paid MMO in the world WISHES they had those kinds of numbers.

Every other paid MMO in the world wishes they had those kind of numbers, agree. However many more likely coming back for Legion has as much substance as those saying that likely blizz will open classic servers in the near futures, wouldn't you agree?

[Relapses]

Every other paid MMO in the world wishes they had those kind of numbers, agree. However many more likely coming back for Legion has as much substance as those saying that likely blizz will open classic servers in the near futures, wouldn't you agree?

There's at least a bit of precedent for jumps in subscription levels at the beginning of expansions. I don't think Legion will have as big a jump as MoP -> WoD, but I do think some of the content goals in Legion will at least help prevent the massive freefall of subscribers we saw shortly after WoD's release.

[Jeniwyn]

Blizzard have already failed this game.

I don't think this is true. But they have failed a part of their playerbase that includes some of their most dedicated fans.

I'm just venting the saltiness left behind by the Nost shut-down.

Yeah. I think that we will see effects of this for a rather long time. Unless Blizzard not only announces legacy realms but also develop them with haste.

Since that particular scenario isn't super likely salty nost players with many hundreds of dollars sunk into WoW aren't going away soon.

[voidillusion]

There's at least a bit of precedent for jumps in subscription levels at the beginning of expansions. I don't think Legion will have as big a jump as MoP -> WoD, but I do think some of the content goals in Legion will at least help prevent the massive freefall of subscribers we saw shortly after WoD's release.

Historic precedent yes. One could argue that there's also a historic precedent for blizz after saying that they would like to implement something, it actually is after a while.

See where im heading here?

[anon5123]

So...whatever came of that "Nost Blizzard meeting" ? Has it even happened yet?

[Deleted]

So...whatever came of that "Nost Blizzard meeting" ? Has it even happened yet?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...Legacy-Servers

[Kyanion]

Every other paid MMO in the world wishes they had those kind of numbers, agree. However many more likely coming back for Legion has as much substance as those saying that likely blizz will open classic servers in the near futures, wouldn't you agree?

Those aren't even the same thing. You know people will come back for an expansion as it has happened many times already. You think no one is coming back for it? The only thing we could debate is just how many are coming back.

[Relapses]

Historic precedent yes. One could argue that there's also a historic precedent for blizz after saying that they would like to implement something, it actually is after a while.

See where im heading here?

Right, I don't think anybody really doubts that Legacy content would result in an uptick of subscribers. The anti-Legacy contention is whether the people who'd come back for Legacy content would stick around any longer than those who'd come back for a new expansion. That's the big unknown factor and I think personal perspective on the outcome of their implementation is what fundamentally drives people into apposing factions on this subject.

[Kyanion]

I don't think this is true. But they have failed a part of their playerbase that includes some of their most dedicated fans.



Yeah. I think that we will see effects of this for a rather long time. Unless Blizzard not only announces legacy realms but also develop them with haste.

Since that particular scenario isn't super likely salty nost players with many hundreds of dollars sunk into WoW aren't going away soon.

They failed more than just some 'dedicated fans'. The game has lost many millions of people over the years for a multitude of reasons. Nothing personal but a person who stops paying to play WoW and decides to go play on PS isn't exactly a 'dedicated fan'. You know who IS dedicated fans? People that stick with the game through the good and the bad and have faith that we'll get something that isn't a shit expansion with Legion. Your many hundreds of dollars is a drop in the bucket compared to what some of us have put into the game. Hell, many of you 'dedicated' fans left years ago, even before WoD hit.

We will see threads like this here and there with an uptick of the side effects at Blizzcon 2016. But you do realize the hype has died down quite a bit since those 2 meetings right?

[voidillusion]

They failed more than just some 'dedicated fans'. The game has lost many millions of people over the years for a multitude of reasons. Nothing personal but a person who stops paying to play WoW and decides to go play on PS isn't exactly a 'dedicated fan'. You know who IS dedicated fans? People that stick with the game through the good and the bad and have faith that we'll get something that isn't a shit expansion with Legion. Your many hundreds of dollars is a drop in the bucket compared to what some of us have put into the game. Hell, many of you 'dedicated' fans left years ago, even before WoD hit.

We will see threads like this here and there with an uptick of the side effects at Blizzcon 2016. But you do realize the hype has died down quite a bit since those 2 meetings right?

Ofc the hype died down, ppl were expecting a outcome from those meeting. It was a positive one imo, but nobody can realisticaly expect any announcement any time soon if it comes to happen. These things take their sweet time.

[Kyanion]

Ofc the hype died down, ppl were expecting a outcome from those meeting. It was a positive one imo, but nobody can realisticaly expect any announcement any time soon if it comes to happen. These things take their sweet time.

On that I wholly agree. The thing is though many Nost players and fans of Legacy took those meetings and assumed it meant Legacy was happening very soon or that Blizz was already working on it. Hell they read some of Kern's notes and started crowing about it. They don't realize that even getting an announcement at this year's Blizzcon would be unlikely.

[voidillusion]

That i don't know. Expecting a possible announcement that they are taking the first steps in making it possible at this Blizconn isnt too far fetched.

[Deleted]

So, "dedicated fans" means gullibility? I have no vested interest in promoting Blizzard or being their "fan", I'm evaluating what is being put in front of me. What I am invested in is seeing a good vanilla/TBC server and since Blizz shut down the only good one out there I'm salty. They have literally snuffed out a little bit of joy in my life. If they make a Legacy server I am going to financially back them because I like backing good things. Other than that, I really don't care what happens with Legion.

[Jeniwyn]

I don't think this is true. But they have failed a part of their playerbase that includes some of their most dedicated fans.

They failed more than just some 'dedicated fans'.

I accept your apology.

Nothing personal but a person who stops paying to play WoW and decides to go play on PS isn't exactly a 'dedicated fan'. You know who IS dedicated fans? People that stick with the game through the good and the bad and have faith that we'll get something that isn't a shit expansion with Legion.

The person who seeks out the game wherever it is available isn't dedicated while the person who mindlessly keeps paying a subscription for a game he now considers bad is? You might be confusing apathy with dedication there.


Also, I wasn't referring to the Nostalrius players here since the topic of discussion, if you had bothered to read the post I was replying to, was if Blizzard had failed the game. The dedicated players I was referring to were the untold number of long time subscribers who finally left during WoD. Almost every single person I know who played from Vanilla until now has finally quit, because the game finally removed the last MOORPG aspects from the game. If you look at the videos from the likes of Kungen, Boogie2988, Swifty, JonTron and many others you will notice that they all are profoundly disappointed in retail even though most of them didn't even play on Nostalrius (except JonTron). This is the fanbase I'm talking about.

many of you 'dedicated' fans left years ago, even before WoD hit.

90%+ of everyone who ever played the game did, so that is obviously going to be true. Among the players posting on MMO champion more recent subscribers and current subscribers are going to be in the clear majority though for obvious reasons. I left in mid-WoD when it became painfully obvious that this expansion would just be the the latest raid on different difficulties for at least a year rather than an MMO. Luckily for me, Nostalrius was around to catch me. It managed to show me exactly what I used to love a about WoW and, consequently, what the game has lost. The game has evolved. But it has evolved so much that I'd argue that it has changed genre. It's now more of a time gated multiplayer platformer than an MMORPG. I can enjoy that too, but I'd prefer WoW the MMORPG, since that is my favorite game.

We will see threads like this here and there with an uptick of the side effects at Blizzcon 2016. But you do realize the hype has died down quite a bit since those 2 meetings right?

The 5 stages of Loss and Grief applies. But that doesn't mean that there isn't a lot of pissed up and disillusioned players out there, not needing all to much stirring to get triggered again. I think it is a very good thing for Blizzard that the second best vanilla private server has so much lower quality than Nostalrius did. Otherwise they might have found themselves in a really bad situation. Now they can probably let that server stick around for a while since it is unlikely to grow to Nost size or beyond.


However, the arguably bigger problem of the "vanilla type" player not being interested in current WoW remains. While the trend has been there for arguably the last 4 expansions (a topic that can be argued ad nauseam) Warlords of Draenor and Nostalrius has really put the issue in focus. As long as WoW at least payed lip service to the MMORPG lovers things worked decently, now many are disillusioned and that is a lot of potential subs that Blizzard would like to somehow snatch back.


I think that Legacy servers would be a good idea to do that. And as a huge vanilla buff I'd obviously like that to happen now. Preferably yesterday. But looking at it more rationally it would make a ton more sense to wait until Legion is out and make sure that there are at least some MMORPG qualities in it. They have already taken baby steps towards it in 6.2 and if they can deliver on dungeon content being relevant for everyone but Mythic raiders in Legion then putting out Legacy servers as both lure an safety net might just be enough to climb to steady numbers significantly above 5 million again. I'd love it if they could make WoW a game I truly enjoyed again. It isn't impossible, but it is going to be hard. And Legacy servers is a card that they can really only play once.

[kary]

For what it's worth though, Kungen left a while ago and only appears because he's a vulture and needs attention.
But eh.

[Gavan]

On that I wholly agree. The thing is though many Nost players and fans of Legacy took those meetings and assumed it meant Legacy was happening very soon or that Blizz was already working on it. Hell they read some of Kern's notes and started crowing about it. They don't realize that even getting an announcement at this year's Blizzcon would be unlikely.

I'm still of the opinion that something at Blizzcon is realistic. Blizzard and most dev studios like to have the prelim done in short order and they don't really have anything publicly on their plate after Legion ships. We can make all the assumptions we want, but other than another D3 expac, next year looks light for full blown releases, mostly just standard continued support from the 3 games that require a higher level of that. (OW, HS, and HotS)

This Blizzcon is going to be interesting in that aspect, as the question looms, "what's next for Blizzard."