Are MMO-Champ LFR players the majority of LFR players?

[Daffan]

I didn't overly understand all the hate for LFR to begin with and now I understand it even less. Do you guys know that PvP gives out ilvl 700-710 gear to AFK in Ashran or other PvP battleground? I now have 3 toons that haven't done a single dungeon, and yet are at 700 iLvL thanks to half ass playing in Ashran and Battlegrounds. Where is all the angry and rage at the free PvP gear that's better than the LFR gear?!!?

I do all that sort of hate.

I used to hate LFR because it made old content obsolete with it's (even relatively low) rewards. Now PVP and Baleful is 10x worse.

[ThiagoTorres]

The majority of players like lfr cause they are common and causal players.

Hardcore players are the minor of minor on thos game. Deal with it

[Greenmagoo]

https://twitter.com/occupygstreet/st...23830163632128

Most of the players doing LFR just didn't raid at all before. They were never really eligible for recruitment.

In other words MMO-Champion's LFR players are not the majority of LFR players. The most vocal ones are also not casual given their large game time input.

[hyphnos]

That isn't the topic of discussion here, but I am a 8/13 mythic raider and I have not been in an organized raiding guild, in fact, I have not been in a raiding guild since 5.1. So, you can stop being toxic and actually discuss the topic of the thread. Thank you.

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Best response I think I've ever seen. I think blizzard needs to do more to promote normal raiding, and guide and show players how to use the LFG feature, because it really is amazing. I only use LFG, because I like meeting new people, and my guild doesn't raid.

I find the issue with WoW currently is that raiding has remained roughly the same size, while everything else has been scaled down, creating the illusion that raiding is the sole focus. People should really be mad about why all the other content has gone down, instead of demanding raiding be dragged down as well.

Oooh wow, great argument, you're a statistical fluke, congratulations. That doesn't alter the fact that nearly 100% of high end raiding takes place in organized guilds and I am utterly baffled that you think I'm being toxic to say that people don't like organized raiding when you by your own admission shun it. In any event, I was replying to another post and did in fact address the topic, which is obvious on it's face. There are not enough readers of MMO Champ to constitute a majority of any type of players in WoW.

If we are limited to discussing that "question" then we should just have the thread closed because it is an observable fact that there are not 2.5 million people using this website and therefore the question has an obvious answer not worth of discussion.

[roahn the warlock]

Oooh wow, great argument, you're a statistical fluke, congratulations. That doesn't alter the fact that nearly 100% of high end raiding takes place in organized guilds and I am utterly baffled that you think I'm being toxic to say that people don't like organized raiding when you by your own admission shun it. In any event, I was replying to another post and did in fact address the topic, which is obvious on it's face. There are not enough readers of MMO Champ to constitute a majority of any type of players in WoW.

If we are limited to discussing that "question" then we should just have the thread closed because it is an observable fact that there are not 2.5 million people using this website and therefore the question has an obvious answer not worth of discussion.

A person can't be a statistical fluke, I just used the tools available to me. That isn't a "Fluke"

[Deleted]

Oooh wow, great argument, you're a statistical fluke

A person can't be a statistical fluke

To be fair, not only 8/13, you can be 13/13 right now as a loner (and for many players more easily than in a run of the mill guild), but, but, there are often guilds behind it that support that kind of raiding so you can't say it happened in a vacuum because you might had been in a guild raid that took you, or, even if you were not in a guild raid that took you, you might had been in a pug raid that had players that had been supported by guild raiding, or it might have had guild raiders (which is frankly almost always the case).

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Most players I meet even in LFR are decent people. The 80/20 rule is a constant of most social situations, not just LFR. It's always 20% of the people doing 80% of the work, 20% causing 80% of the trouble, etc. If you're into social sciences, you can research some pretty cool articles on that phenomenon.

LFR is also where non-guilded players and players who can't/won't commit to raid schedules turn for various resources gated behind raiding. Some are there for extra valor, some for the ring quest, and some just to get a look at the content. Many are seeing the fights for the first time, including some in key roles like tanking. Anyone who queues for LFR without expecting this is being unrealistic.

[Blackmist]

I think the average LFR player hasn't heard of MMO-Champion, doesn't know about all the other sites to help you learn your class or tell you where things are. They probably have no addons, and might not even have all their important abilities on the action bar, let alone bound to keys.

It's tuned for them, and it's just a nice side effect that anybody else can queue and help them out. If it was just them, they wouldn't even be able to find the bosses, let alone kill it.

[Akka]

I truely don't understand why so many are so anti-LFR

Because it indirectly affects the entire game.

[Raelbo]

I believe what WoD blizzard attempted to do, was make normal mode for people like you, and LFR was truely meant for the worst of the worst. I believe that LFR is not one demographic, but that the majority of LFR players are absolutely awful at the game and need it to be WoD easy.

LFR is tuned so that a group of randomly selected players who use it have a good chance of beating it. If a group happens to have an unusually low average ability, then the group will wipe, and if it has an unusually high average ability, then it will be faceroll. But for a normal (in the statistical sense) group, there should be no issues provided everyone performs according to their capability.

In a way you are right, but not entirely. It does cater for the worst of the worst, but it also assumes that there will be regular players and even some good players.

I believe that if I am correct, this is the best argument for the removal of LFR (But not necessary in the context of the discussion). Because you want something more difficult, and the people who like WoD LFR, who need WoD LFR, truly belong doing world content, dungeons, and dailies.

That seems like a poor argument. Let the people who like WoD LFR do WoD LFR. Don't force them to do world content, dungeons, and dailies exclusively. Let them choose where to focus their attention.

I believe Blizzard assumed people who enjoyed MoP LFR would make the move into normals, and grossly overestimated how much you guys hate forming your own groups

I don't think Blizzard ever assumed this. I think they probably assumed some people would graduate from LFR to normal etc, but also assumed some people would downgrade from other raid formats to LFR and that most LFR raiders would actually simply remain at the LFR level. The primary purpose of LFR is to provide fun to a broad spectrum of players, especially those who do not participate in normal, heroic, mythic raiding.

I would like your thoughts, as I am generally curious, and am trying to understand LFR. So far my only understanding is that you guys hate forming groups (based on my previous thread where I asked why LFR players hate normal)

Forming groups is part of it. But it's more than that. It's also about being open to literally anyone who wants to participate. It's also more about participating in the encounter with a high rate of success rather than being challenging - and something that needs to be worked at to win. It's about seeing the fights, getting a taste of the real encounter, witnessing the story of the game, getting some gear and just generally having a bit of low intensity fun.

If you don't find it fun that's fine, but accept that a lot of people do.

[hyphnos]

A person can't be a statistical fluke, I just used the tools available to me. That isn't a "Fluke"

You are in no way representative of a typical player. You did something that is very very very very uncommon, hence a statistical fluke. Stating something is uncommon or rare isn't a statement that something cannot be done so you using the tools available to you is neither here nor there. You are not representative of even a fraction of a percent of players and therefore your 8/13 M done outside the guild system tells us nothing other than the fact that you did something that is extremely rare.

[roahn the warlock]

You are in no way representative of a typical player. You did something that is very very very very uncommon, hence a statistical fluke. Stating something is uncommon or rare isn't a statement that something cannot be done so you using the tools available to you is neither here nor there. You are not representative of even a fraction of a percent of players and therefore your 8/13 M done outside the guild system tells us nothing other than the fact that you did something that is extremely rare.

And I did it by doing nothing special, all I did was click the LFG thing, and picked a group that took my ilvl, I did this and kept doing this until today. In which I look. Oh, group wants a 730ilvl, I have that. I joined that group.

It wasn't "luck" that got me 8/13 mythic. I just picked whatever group happened to be close to, or at a boss I needed to kill. It isn't hard.

And who defines success as Mythic, If you can only do normal, or heroic, you're just as much a raider.

[Bonezerker]

4 hour a week guilds exist. I'm currently raiding in 2 guilds. One that is focused on progression and one that is very casual. My casual guild is 10/13 Heroic on a 3 hour, 1 day a week schedule. That might not seem that impressive to some, but we have no attendance requirements, minimal dps/hps requirements, are mostly adults with 40+ hour a week jobs and families, with an average age of probably around 35-40. We even have a few retirees who are among our top raiders. We make due with what we have on raid night. People drop in and out for weeks or months at a time because of real life issues. We probably haven't had the same tanking pair on consecutive weeks in months, but since I joined the guild a couple of months after HFC came out, we've never had to cancel a raid night.

For newer raiders or people that just can't make our Heroic raid night, we also have an alt run that one of our officers hosts that is open to anyone that wants to come and is 1 day a week for 2 hours. I had a guild member tell me that he thought that raiding was boring because before he joined us, all he did was LFR but now he has a blast on our alt runs.

If committing to a several hour a week raid schedule is the only thing keeping you from organized raiding, there is likely a guild out there for you. They might not be easy to find, but they are out there. My guild is always looking for more friendly non-judgmental to play with.

[Kulthar]

some players see LFR as the 'worst of the worst' . which is a negative way of saying it.
blizzard and positive (they seem not to exist much these days) players would call it 'the easiest step to engaging players to get into raiding'
from blizzards pov, that would mean more (or slower sub loss) players playing thus paying.
and newer or more positive players going hey, this is pretty cool, maybe i should get more (challenging versions) into this.

as for is most of mmo-champ being the majority of LFR players.. its probably a case of the same round-a-bout % of people who use the official wow forums.
ie: sweet fuck all

[Stanzilla]

LFR needs to go because it does not offer a way for bad players to get better. Ignoring all mechanics is not helping you learn a fight or improve your gameplay.

[MoanaLisa]

Ignoring all mechanics is not helping you learn a fight or improve your gameplay.

Do you think that improving gameplay is a priority for players in Raid Finder? I don't. A lot of people play for fun and don't think of it as a self-improvement seminar. You're not wrong but neither are they.

Where I disagree is that you seem to believe that your personal goals and priorities--learning fights and improving gameplay--are correct for everyone. They aren't. And they are not lesser human beings for not sharing your priorities.

[Foj]

Do you think that improving gameplay is a priority for players in Raid Finder? I don't. A lot of people play for fun and don't think of it as a self-improvement seminar. You're not wrong but neither are they.

Where I disagree is that you seem to believe that your personal goals and priorities--learning fights and improving gameplay--are correct for everyone. They aren't. And they are not lesser human beings for not sharing your priorities.

I always enjoyed LFR as a kind of practice venue as well as something to do while not playing particularly carefully (although I never AFKed aside from the occasional phone call and bio). But in WoD it hasn't been that. It is a place for raiding alts to work on legendary drops and grab some shitty gear along the way.

Unlike MoP and even Cataclysm, there was just nothing in it for the player uninterested in hardcore raiding. Basically you would tag along behind a peleton of raiders looking to gear their 5th alt. You could play, or not, didn't really matter. I think I ran LFR wings less than 10 times this entire expansion and I don't think I finished a single raid. There was just no point. No gear and play was dominated by players who should never have been in there in the first place. Not just boring but offensive.

Meanwhile the overtuned formerly-Flex Normal was no fun either.

Blizzard fucked it all up, utterly, and I'm sure that "raid or quit" combined with "raiding sucks if you don't like organized raiding" and "oh by the way grind out this goddamn ring that is complete shit compared to the cape except for ... organized raiders" played a large part in the drop in player participation and subscriptions during this expansion.

Haven't played the Legion beta even though invited long ago, we'll see if WoW 6.x is worth my time for anything other than the AH and "waiting for the next non sucking expansion."

[BiggestNoob]

Meanwhile the overtuned formerly-Flex Normal was no fun either.

If you spend a little time learning how to play I think you'll find that normal feels easier than LFR once you reach a fairly mediocre execution level.

[Riistov]

In my very unpopular opinion, LFR should just be removed. With 5 man content giving gear equal to that of raid gear, LFR is no longer there as a gearing mechanism.

More options are better. If you don't like LFR, then don't do it. It really doesn't affect you at all.

I say this at a Mythic raider who likes to do LFR on his alts occasionally.

[Deleted]

It really doesn't affect you at all.

That is not true because the other raiders would be more optimal if they run it for valor for a while. When something in this game would make you stronger but it's not enjoyable to do it, then objectively, we are entering a contested area that "it doesn't affect players at all" is objectively wrong.

That being said I didn't find it a big deal and I support its existence.