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  1. #41
    Deleted
    In case of attack on Baltics countries and Poland nothing would be done to defend those countries. They are the buffer zone. In case of a war, those territories' main purpose will be to hold all the combat in there, so Western countries and Germany can be safe. It's quite simple and pragmatic. Happened during WW1 and WW2. Will happen in the future.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussiedude View Post
    Russian female soldiers are sooo sexy


    Hmm US female solders in Afghanistan have nice fashion too
    Only the lower pictures shows actual soldiers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheekin View Post
    In case of attack on Baltics countries and Poland nothing would be done to defend those countries. They are the buffer zone. In case of a war, those territories' main purpose will be to hold all the combat in there, so Western countries and Germany can be safe. It's quite simple and pragmatic. Happened during WW1 and WW2. Will happen in the future.
    Erm... no.

    Frankly, Russia doesn't have enough troops to hold anything larger than a Baltic country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Please my fellow Europeans, put this on the background to listen to. Its geopolitics analysis from professor Stephen F. Cohen, concerning the NATO movements on Russia's borders.

    Edit: Mods pls say to the super mod to allow us to directly embed from audioboom pretty please
    Stephen F. Cohen has a joke of a reputation in this country. He's been a Soviet, then Russian apologist for 40 years. His wife, Katrina vanden Heuvel, runs the Nation, a hard left magazine in this country.

    They're political extremists.

  3. #43
    I dont see any reason to how and why Russia would start a war with NATO atm, but better safe than sorry I guess.

  4. #44
    Russia's military aggression in Ukraine tells me all I need to know about them.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Naralix View Post
    Maybe one day western people will realize that we are the threat. We are the warmongerers and risk to world peace. But that doesn't work with the constant lies people are fed and firmly believe.
    I'm afraid on Russia has invaded another European country in the past half century.

    People don't even realize how ridiciolous -we- as the west are. It's actually laughable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Naralix View Post
    We kill 20 people in a drone attack somewhere in middle east because we deem one of these people in the mass a terroist. Just try to reverse roles here. Imagine Syria lets a drone cruise over our city and then kills 20 people walking trough a shopping mile.
    Take your drone war guilt somewhere else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Naralix View Post
    It's okay if we do it. If someone else does it to us you realize how fucked up it actually is.
    If Russia were waging a drone war, we wouldn't say it was fucked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naralix View Post
    We are constantly expanding NATO, reinforcing arms, pushing russia into a corner. Despite the agreement after german reunion that NATO will never have an east expansion.
    If by constantly you mean once a decade, sure. And there was no written agreement. No Treaty? No Legally Binding Deal. Simple as that.



    Quote Originally Posted by Naralix View Post
    Another example; We hold military drills directly infront of the russian border. 'Defensive measures'. We are the good guys. We do it for good things. Russia holds military drills in their own country. OHMYGODTHISAGGRESSORPUTINDICTATOR.
    We can hold drills wherever we like.


    Quote Originally Posted by Naralix View Post
    USA has like 200+ military bases around the world and has been at war with at least one country trough almost it's entire existance as a state.
    It's closer to 700-900, depending how you count. Most are owned and operated by host countries that lease us a few buildings. If people want us out, we leave. Spoiler alert: they almost never do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Naralix View Post
    Who is the real aggressor and danger here?
    Russia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Naralix View Post
    Signed,
    angry german
    You should be angry Russia created this situation. The US was essentially pulling out of Europe 2.5 years ago.

    Now we're doubling down.

    Thanks Putin.

  6. #46
    What are 1000 Canadian troops gonna do? Give em a friendly talking to over a bottle of maple and poutine?

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Kapadons View Post
    What are 1000 Canadian troops gonna do? Give em a friendly talking to over a bottle of maple and poutine?
    The 1000 troops are trip wires.

    Not even 100k would be enough to stand any chance if Russia decided to full out.

    The thing is that NATO and especially USA are pushing the envelope too hard. Russia is corned and has no more space to back to.

    You have to ask yourself this: How would USA react if Russia held exercises in its borders, aka Cuba, Canada, Mexico with 40,000 soldiers, was building A/A systems and bringing in artillery, armor vehicles and planes.

    Its a rhetorical question btw, you don't need to answer.

    Russia as i can see has two choices:

    a) Wait and hope NATO wont attack and then try through diplomacy to remove all these troops of their borders or
    b) Explain them that what NATO is doing is a national threat and react.

    Bottom line is this: The real aggressor here is NATO and ESPECIALLY the USA.

    You should start to be afraid when you see countries dropping off NATO, that means we are reaching the thresh point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Stephen F. Cohen has a joke of a reputation in this country. He's been a Soviet, then Russian apologist for 40 years. His wife, Katrina vanden Heuvel, runs the Nation, a hard left magazine in this country.

    They're political extremists.

    I don't heard anything extremist, and I've heard / read a lot of his interviews. The fact that a man goes against the warmongering of your governments makes him a decent human being.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post

    I don't heard anything extremist, and I've heard / read a lot of his interviews. The fact that a man goes against the warmongering of your governments makes him a decent human being.
    Of course you wouldn't.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a..._the_most.html

    Slate is on the political center-left by the way.

    Stephen Cohen was once considered a top Russia historian. Now he publishes odd defenses of Vladimir Putin. The Nation just published his most outrageous one yet.

    Afew months ago, at the height of the Russian-Ukrainian conflict over Crimea, Stephen F. Cohen, professor emeritus of Russian studies and politics at New York University and Princeton, acquired a certain notoriety as the Kremlin’s No. 1 American apologist. As Cohen made Russia’s case and lamented the American media’s meanness to Vladimir Putin in print and on the airwaves, he was mocked as a “patsy” and a “dupe” everywhere from the conservative Free Beacon to the liberal New York and New Republic. Now, as the hostilities in eastern Ukraine have turned to the tragedy of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, Cohen is at it again—this time, with a long article in the current issue of The Nation indicting “Kiev’s atrocities” in eastern Ukraine and America’s collusion therein. The timing is rather unfortunate for Cohen and The Nation, since the piece is also unabashedly sympathetic to the Russian-backed militants who appear responsible for the murder of 298 innocent civilians.

    Some of Cohen’s critics have assumed that he is a lifelong leftist hack who simply transferred his allegiance from the Soviet Union to Putin’s Russia. The truth is more complex. While Cohen regularly argued against anti-Soviet hawks in the Cold War–era in his TV appearances and writing (including a monthly column in The Nation, “Sovieticus,” in the 1980s), he was no fan of the Soviet regime, which blacklisted him from travel there from 1982 to 1985. He had friends among Soviet dissidents—gravitating, however, toward those of the democratic socialist or even Marxist persuasion. Cohen’s own interest in “socialism with a human face” was reflected in his scholarly work: His first book, published in 1973, was a well-received biography of Nikolai Bukharin, the Bolshevik leader and victim of Stalin’s purges who at one point advocated a mixed economy and more humane politics.
    In the late 1980s, Cohen was an ardent enthusiast of Mikhail Gorbachev’s perestroika reforms; he and his wife, Katrina vanden Heuvel, now editor in chief of The Nation, co-authored Voices of Glasnost: Interviews With Gorbachev’s Reformers, whose subjects—officials, journalists, and intellectuals—were all proponents of top-down change to bring about a kinder, gentler Soviet socialism. Those dreams ended in a rude awakening in 1991 with the demise of the Soviet Union.

    The Soviet collapse is generally seen as the result of the system’s internal rot; Cohen, however, has blamed it on Boris Yeltsin’s power-grabbing, aided by the pro-Western “radical intelligentsia” that “hijacked Gorbachev’s gradualist reformation.” His antipathy to Yeltsin led him to sympathize with the views of those Russians who saw their country during the 1990s as “semi-occupied by foreigners—from shock-therapy economists to human-rights advocates,” and who credited Putin with taking it back. In Newsweek’s February 2008 roundup of expert opinions on Putin and his legacy, Cohen’s contribution—entitled “The Savior”—asserted Putin was the man who “ended Russia's collapse at home and re-asserted its independence abroad.” As U.S.-Russian relations worsened, Cohen grew increasingly strident in his denunciations of the “demonization” of Putin by the American media.

    Cohen’s new article in The Nation hits a new low. The charge Cohen makes is a serious one: that the pro-Western Ukrainian government, aided and abetted by the Obama administration, the “new Cold War hawks” in Congress, and the craven American media, is committing “deeds that are rising to the level of war crimes, if they have not done so already.” He is referring to the Ukrainian military assaults on cities and towns held by pro-Russian insurgents, including artillery shelling and air attacks.

    The rising civilian toll of the fighting in eastern Ukraine is a fact. To what length governments and armies must go to avoid noncombatant casualties when waging war in populated areas, particularly against irregular fighters who may deliberately mix with civilians, is a dilemma that plagues modern warfare. (Cohen’s hero once tackled this issue head-on by carpet-bombing Chechen cities.) Concerns about possible “indiscriminate” and “disproportionate” use of force by the Ukrainian military in rebel areas have been raised by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and the United Nations; most recently, Human Rights Watch has criticized the Kiev military's use of Grad rockets in the fighting for Donetsk. None of them, however, have accused Kiev of war crimes. And, far from being hushed up by the American media, the story was covered both by the Daily Beast (whose reporting has generally been sympathetic to the pro-Western government) and by the Associated Press.

    All three organizations also extensively document abuses and bona fide atrocities by the insurgents whom Cohen calls “resisters,” from kidnappings to savage beatings, torture, rape, and murder. Cohen entirely omits these inconvenient facts, conceding only that the rebels are “aggressive, organized and well armed—no doubt with some Russian assistance.” And he concludes that “calling them ‘self-defense’ fighters is not wrong,” since “their land is being invaded and assaulted by a government whose political legitimacy is arguably no greater than their own, two of their large regions having voted overwhelmingly for autonomy referendums.”

    Is Cohen the one person in the world who puts stock in the results of the Donetsk and Luhansk “referendums,” which even Russia did not formally recognize? Pre-referendum polls in both regions found that most residents opposed secession; they were also, as a U.N. report confirms, kept from voting in the presidential election by violence and intimidation from the insurgents. Nor does Cohen ever acknowledge the known fact that a substantial percentage of the “resisters” are not locals but citizens of the Russian Federation—particularly their leaders, many of whom have ties to Russian “special security services.” Their ranks also include quite a few Russian ultranationalists and even neo-Nazis—a highly relevant fact, given that much of Cohen’s article is devoted to claims that Ukrainian “neo-fascists” play a key role both in the Kiev government and in the counterinsurgency operation.

    On this subject, Cohen’s narrative is so error-riddled that one has to wonder if The Nation employs fact-checkers. (According to The Nation's publicity director, Caitlin Graf, “All of The Nation's print pieces are rigorously fact-checked by our research department.”) Cohen asserts that after the fall of pro-Moscow President Viktor Yanukovych, the far-right Svoboda party, and the paramilitary nationalist group Right Sector got a large share of Cabinet posts, including ones for national security and the military, because Ukraine’s new leaders were “obliged to both movements for their violence-driven ascent to power, and perhaps for their personal safety.” In fact, Svoboda (which has tried to reinvent itself as a moderate nationalist party, despite a genuinely troubling history of bigotry and extremism) got its Cabinet posts as part of a European Union–brokered agreement between Yanukovych and opposition leaders, made shortly before Yanukovych skipped town. Right Sector has no such posts—early reports that its leader, Dmytro Yarosh, got appointed deputy minister for national security were wrong—and the government actually moved to crack down on the group in April. Cohen also neglects to mention that the Svoboda-affiliated acting defense minister, Ihor Tenyukh, was sacked in late March and replaced with a nonpartisan career military man.

    Cohen’s claims about the “mainstreaming of fascism’s dehumanizing ethos” in Ukraine are equally spurious—and rely heavily on Russian propaganda canards. Thus, he asserts that Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk called the rebels “subhumans”; in fact, even the pro-government Russian newspaper Vzglyad admits this was an English mistranslation of nelyudi, literally “inhumans” or “monsters.” (The word also exists in Russian, and Russian officials have freely used it toward their own “resisters” in the Caucasus.) He reports that a regional governor (Yuri Odarchenko of the Kherson region) “praised Hitler for his ‘slogan of liberating the people’ in occupied Ukraine” in his speech at a Victory Day event on May 9. In fact, as a transcript and a video show, Odarchenko said that Hitler used “slogans about alleged liberation of nations” to justify invading sovereign countries and “the aggressor” today was using similar slogans about “alleged oppressions” to justify aggression against Ukraine. And, in Cohen’s extremely tendentious retelling, the May 2 tragedy in Odessa, where clashes between separatists and Kiev supporters led to a deadly fire that killed some 40 separatists, becomes a deliberate holocaust reminiscent of “Nazi German extermination squads.”

    In a downright surreal passage, Cohen argues that Putin has shown “remarkable restraint” so far but faces mounting public pressure due to “vivid accounts” in the Russian state-run media of Kiev’s barbarities against ethnic Russians. Can he really be unaware that the hysteria is being whipped up by lurid fictions, such as the recent TV1 story about a 3-year-old boy crucified in Slovyansk’s main square in front of a large crowd and his own mother? Does Cohen not know that Russian disinformation and fakery, including old footage from Dagestan or Syria passed off as evidence of horrors in Ukraine, has been extensively documented? Is he unaware that top Russian officials, including Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and Putin himself, have publicly repeated allegations of war crimes that were quickly exposed as false, such as white phosphorus use by Ukrainian troops or a slaughter of the wounded in a hospital? But Cohen manages to take the surrealism a notch higher, earnestly citing the unnamed “dean of Moscow State University’s School of Television” (that’s Vitaly Tretyakov, inter alia a 9/11 “truther”) who thinks the Kremlin may be colluding with the West to hush up the extent of carnage in Ukraine.

    There is no question that eastern Ukraine is currently dealing with a human rights catastrophe. All evidence suggests that it is overwhelmingly the responsibility of the Russia-sponsored militants, though there is almost certainly wrongdoing on the part of Kiev as well. If, as Cohen charges, the Obama administration, the “hawks,” and the “establishment media” are covering up for Kiev for political reasons, the U.N. and the leading human rights groups would have to be complicit in this cover-up.

    It is embarrassing to see Cohen—once a serious scholar whose work was praised by the likes of British historian Robert Conquest—sink to the level of repeating Russian misinformation; it is no less of an embarrassment that The Nation would print something so shoddy. One likely element of truth in Cohen’s account is that Putin is indeed feeling the pressure of public sentiment in favor of saving Ukraine’s ethnic Russians from the “fascist junta”—not because of actual Kiev atrocities, but because the Kremlin has wound up a propaganda machine it cannot stop. By recycling this propaganda and giving it the imprimatur of a respectable American magazine, Cohen and The Nation are not doing Russia, or anyone, any favors.

  9. #49
    Looks to me as a personal attack to him, cause butthurt.

    The truth is that if you hear the podcast i linked, he doesn't say anything out of the line, and he completely expresses my point of view.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Him of Many Faces View Post
    Yet despite all those precautions the fate of the world has rested on the shoulders on one individual with less then 10 minutes to decide multiple times.

    heck, unrelated, but that one time the fate of the world was decided by mechanical failure.
    Haven't heard of that one, but I've heard of two Russian soldiers who refused an order to launch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Looks to me as a personal attack to him, cause butthurt.

    The truth is that if you hear the podcast i linked, he doesn't say anything out of the line, and he completely expresses my point of view.
    Ridiculous

    (1) you didn't read an article that size in 2 minutes. So don't even pretend you know what the criticsm is about. You are actually opining on something you didn't read.

    (2) "Butthurt"? Really? By a professional writer at Slate? Who presents a compelling argument to back up their claim?

    Of course he expresses your point of view. Vladmir Putin made both of you his bitch years ago.

    In any event, he's irrelevant. And he's 78. Take from what what you will.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Looks to me as a personal attack to him, cause butthurt.

    The truth is that if you hear the podcast i linked, he doesn't say anything out of the line, and he completely expresses my point of view.
    So a nutjob shares your opinion, grats, noone cares tho.

  13. #53
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Lol, the EU could roflstomp Russia in a war, the USA wouldn't even need to get out of bed.
    Not without US assistance. EU countries lack the war stocks needed for sustained combat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    The 1000 troops are trip wires.

    Not even 100k would be enough to stand any chance if Russia decided to full out.

    The thing is that NATO and especially USA are pushing the envelope too hard. Russia is corned and has no more space to back to.

    You have to ask yourself this: How would USA react if Russia held exercises in its borders, aka Cuba, Canada, Mexico with 40,000 soldiers, was building A/A systems and bringing in artillery, armor vehicles and planes.

    Its a rhetorical question btw, you don't need to answer.

    Russia as i can see has two choices:

    a) Wait and hope NATO wont attack and then try through diplomacy to remove all these troops of their borders or
    b) Explain them that what NATO is doing is a national threat and react.

    Bottom line is this: The real aggressor here is NATO and ESPECIALLY the USA.

    You should start to be afraid when you see countries dropping off NATO, that means we are reaching the thresh point.

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    I don't heard anything extremist, and I've heard / read a lot of his interviews. The fact that a man goes against the warmongering of your governments makes him a decent human being.
    3 US armored brigades and 4 mech inf brigades is what is estimated to be needed to stop Russia cold in the Baltics and Poland. Thats ~33,000 troops.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Not without US assistance. EU countries lack the war stocks needed for sustained combat.

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    3 US armored brigades and 4 mech inf brigades is what is estimated to be needed to stop Russia cold in the Baltics and Poland. Thats ~33,000 troops.
    U forgot the Unicorns

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    So a nutjob shares your opinion, grats, noone cares tho.
    This guy isn't a nutjob, don't listen to Skroe. He is deeply hurt because the guy is a very distinguished scholar in Princeton and New York University.
    The fact is, that Cohen is fighting the warmongering regime of the states and that bothers some.

  15. #55
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Looks to me as a personal attack to him, cause butthurt.

    The truth is that if you hear the podcast i linked, he doesn't say anything out of the line, and he completely expresses my point of view.
    Apparently stating an opinion that differs from the state provided propaganda makes you a traitor in skroesec's views of society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Ridiculous

    (1) you didn't read an article that size in 2 minutes. So don't even pretend you know what the criticsm is about. You are actually opining on something you didn't read.

    (2) "Butthurt"? Really? By a professional writer at Slate? Who presents a compelling argument to back up their claim?

    Of course he expresses your point of view. Vladmir Putin made both of you his bitch years ago.

    In any event, he's irrelevant. And he's 78. Take from what what you will.
    Classy reply skroe.
    1) assumption
    2) appeal to authority
    3) accusations
    4) pointing at his age as if it meant something

    The LAND OF THE FREE! If you think like you that is. Otherwise youre a bought off corrupted nutso.

  16. #56
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    U forgot the Unicorns

    - - - Updated - - -



    This guy isn't a nutjob, don't listen to Skroe. He is deeply hurt because the guy is a very distinguished scholar in Princeton and New York University.
    The fact is, that Cohen is fighting the warmongering regime of the states and that bothers some.
    Sorry Ulmi, but that figure is far more reliable that any number you have. We have been over your lack of military knowledge many times.

    Just being a professor does not exclude one from being a nut job, I've had a few over the years.

  17. #57
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Sorry Ulmi, but that figure is far more reliable that any number you have. We have been over your lack of military knowledge many times.

    Just being a professor does not exclude one from being a nut job, I've had a few over the years.
    http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the...0-europe-14883

    This is Kaliningrad alone.
    The Russian target would be in a conflict to establish a corridor as fast as possible. If they would achieve this, the Baltic countries would be literally cut off from any support. So again, on what data do you base your assumption, that ~33.000 troops would suffice to stop Russia in its tracks?
    First of these 33.000 have to be mobilized and deployed at the strategic points.
    But it would take for the Russians to cover enough ground to make this corridor to Kaliningrad about 36 hours.
    With this current manpower even taken into account the additional 1000 troops, the best case scenario would be 3-4 days to delay the Russian advancement enough to achieve this target.

    I highly doubt, that enough manpower could be deployed in time, to hinder the Russians to cut off the Baltic countries completely.
    So we're talking here only about a defensive line, which could be drawn in Poland at best.

    Knowing these facts, I would be very grateful if you Yankees could vote for Trump. Because all I know about Hillary is, that she would set this region ablaze the moment she comes into office.

  18. #58
    High Overlord Sekach's Avatar
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    The problem with Russia is that its a sovereign country defending its interests, which (believe it or not) seldomly makes countries behave *nice*.
    You want the baltic safe, prosperous and independent? Dont try to load them with nato bases and missile batteries.
    Yeah i know, its quite the shocker...
    "Alas, how terrible is wisdom when it brings no fortune to the wise"

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Sekach View Post
    The problem with Russia is that its a sovereign country defending its interests, which (believe it or not) seldomly makes countries behave *nice*.
    You want the baltic safe, prosperous and independent? Dont try to load them with nato bases and missile batteries.
    Yeah i know, its quite the shocker...
    We'll give them nukes, problem solved.

    If I were a baltic state, I'd work on a nuke.
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

    -- Capt. Copeland

  20. #60
    High Overlord Sekach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    We'll give them nukes, problem solved.

    If I were a baltic state, I'd work on a nuke.
    Russians exist. They dont like you. They are a certifiable power. Being pissy about these things isnt likely to bring about anything approaching harmony.
    "Alas, how terrible is wisdom when it brings no fortune to the wise"

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