Will Mythic Raiders have better Artifacts?

[Soeroah]

All this talk about "high quality gear for their lesser investment".

What about when an LFR raider spends more time in LFR than a Mythic raider? They're investing more, why shouldn't they be rewarded?

Not that it matters. Dedicated PvP or World Quests or Professions may lead to Mythic quality gear but I don't believe LFR will.

[Soeroah]

And I've never claimed LFR to be raiding, but it IS content and a means of character progression for a much larger chunk of people than raiding has EVER been. The fact that LFR's existence justifies the resources put into proper raiding, makes me all for LFR even though I tend to never touch it. The same apparently goes for Blizzard. Their cure for WoD's failure isn't to remove options and progression paths to please special snowflakes, but to add MORE progression paths, MORE possibilities, MORE freedom to choose.

Yeah, and it's great. If WoD had any lesson it was that there needs to be content and progression outside of raiding. If there were no LFR in WoD even more people would have left.

I much prefer LFR being used to justify the raiding budget than the idea of removing raiding. Don't see how anyone could think otherwise.

[Deleted]

First of all "What is gear" ?

You play this game to get gear ? Why do you need this gear at all ? People complaining that someone has better gear or close to what they have and they earned it so much harder... well just stop. You don't have to overcome the sacrifice of your life to have tiny bit better gear. Stop being salty. Gear is supposed to be something to help you overcome greater challenge if you don't do it... like stop at 12/13 M because you feel "weak, burned out" you are not a real raider just a poser for gear.

Now there is a thing that i don't know if blizzard realises: "Once you give something to players you can't take it away" So once they gave us Garissons if they would take it away entirely the outcry would be insane, there are people who like this system and same would be with LFR if they would cut LFR which WoD attempted to do with putting 0 rewards in it and making it pure shit, people will leave the game on mass.

If you have 4-6 friends or even 14 friends you can't do mythic you do some normals and maybe heroics and game is over for you. You can't raid Mythic... you seen everything on LFR and Normal. and this is the end of the game. Even if you are a mythic raider with guild having 20 dedicated people and not scrubs you clear 13/13M in 1 months from release and next X months you don't have really content to do other than selling boosts, getting even more gear which at this point in time you don't really need anymore etc...

So i hope blizzard will not listen to shit community that is salty about every single feature that is not transmog but will focus on making the game great. Also i hope they would introduce something like "modal weekly quests" something that can give you your Valor points or Badges or the currency we will use but in different way not forcing you to do LFR just for the valor points. That would be sweet.

[Maudib]

Sub counts have dropped in WoD because of a lack of content OUTSIDE of raiding instances, not because of LFR. Case in point: 14 months of SoO back in MoP.

And I've never claimed LFR to be raiding, but it IS content and a means of character progression for a much larger chunk of people than raiding has EVER been. The fact that LFR's existence justifies the resources put into proper raiding, makes me all for LFR even though I tend to never touch it. The same apparently goes for Blizzard. Their cure for WoD's failure isn't to remove options and progression paths to please special snowflakes, but to add MORE.

LFR does not justify the development. Not when the previous model grew and sustained 12 million subs and since LFR was introduced raiding has declined and sub counts drop drastically early in each following expansion.

Vanilla release Nov. 23, 2004 (lasted 25 months) steady and HUGE increase to over 7.5 million players!
BC releases Jan 16 2007 (lasted 22 months) steady increase in subs!
Wrath releases Nov 13 2008 (lasted almost 25 months) stedy increase and ended with 12 million subs!
Cataclysm releases Dec 7, 2010 (lasted 22.5 months.. BUT introduced LFR) STEADY DECLINE to under 8 mill... loss of 33% of subs
Mists of Pandaria releases Sept 25, 2012 (lasted almost 26 months with LFR) STEADY DECLINE to under 7 million... loss of a total 41% from Wrath numbers
Warlords of Dreanor releases Nov 13 2014 (Still going... lol Impressive bump to 10 million subs.. but an embarrassing loss of over HALF of it's subs in the first 6 months... dropping to less than 40% after 12 months.

Wow now sits at about 25% of players it used to have. 3 out of 4 people no longer play this game.

At no time until LFR was added did WoW subs EVER decline... after which there has been steady and often drastic declines.

Whatever kept the game growing the first 6 years.. worked... even with only a small percentage seeing the endgame raid content. It was BECAUSE it was there and hard to access that kept raiding growing. It was when LFR was released that raiding declined and so did subs. It also killed the community of the game.. because it took guilds to form in order to raid.

This trend is irrefutable... and directly attributable to LFR and to a lesser degree LFD. The following expansions brought WAY too many new features... new professions, new race/class combos, pet battling, transmogging, etc... that SHOULD have grown the game... but instead LFR and the lack of motivation to attain a hard to reach endgame status overshadowed the gains by these other features.

[Pull My Finger]

"I can't enjoy myself if others are enjoying themselves with shit that I deem inferior!!!!!" = sums it up pretty well.

That's the sad part of it, really. No matter how verbosely these people keep regurgitating their arguments over and over again ... that's what it really comes down to. Just a hopelessly immature bunch.

[Usagi Senshi]

Just like they had better weapons before, they will have "better artifacts" assuming that's what you mean.
Cosmetics, probably not.

Regardless, being a Mythic Raider is something everyone should be aspiring towards.
We only raid 8 hours a week and always battle attendance and still clear everything the tier has.

This probably wont happen if they are moving towards much shorter raid tiers, but regardless, 2 nights a week is really not that much to ask for in terms of commitment.
Stop making threads about nonsense and go find a guild!

Been there and done that for 15+ years across 5 MMOs (9 years raiding in WoW), shit finally got old and prefer pugs and solo play now.

Also, don't fucking tell me how to live my life! Gosh!

That being said, I'll stick to Mythic+ (what I have 30+ friend son Bnet for after all) Dungeons and LFR if I come back to WoW.

[Unir]

All this talk about "high quality gear for their lesser investment".

What about when an LFR raider spends more time in LFR than a Mythic raider? They're investing more, why shouldn't they be rewarded?

Not that it matters. Dedicated PvP or World Quests or Professions may lead to Mythic quality gear but I don't believe LFR will.

Having killed Mythic Archimonde, and Mythic Gorefiend before that, I can assure you with 100% confidence there is no player doing only LFR who spends more time in there than your average mythic raid group that makes actual significant progress.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Yeah, and it's great. If WoD had any lesson it was that there needs to be content and progression outside of raiding. If there were no LFR in WoD even more people would have left.

I much prefer LFR being used to justify the raiding budget than the idea of removing raiding. Don't see how anyone could think otherwise.

Agreed 100%. WoD would have been even more of a bomb had it not been for the accessible, "do it when you feel like it"-option of LFR being there for the masses as progression path.

[Jibjub]

I think his misunderstanding and then anger over other people having the same weapon as him is warranted. If people doing LFR got the exact same rewards as people doing mythic, that would be a problem -- even LFR have to agree to that.

Because, why would anyone do Mythic? It would be harder to keep raiding guilds together. As someone who used to run a small normal raid group (through Wrath and Cata), the inclusion of LFR makes it VERY hard to keep casual-minded players ... who used to succeed (albeit, with a lot of tries) in normal. The pool for recruiting is smaller, etc. It stinks.

[Usagi Senshi]

LFR does not justify the development. Not when the previous model grew and sustained 12 million subs and since LFR was introduced raiding has declined and sub counts drop drastically early in each following expansion.

Vanilla release Nov. 23, 2004 (lasted 25 months) steady and HUGE increase to over 7.5 million players!
BC releases Jan 16 2007 (lasted 22 months) steady increase in subs!
Wrath releases Nov 13 2008 (lasted almost 25 months) stedy increase and ended with 12 million subs!
Cataclysm releases Dec 7, 2010 (lasted 22.5 months.. BUT introduced LFR) STEADY DECLINE to under 8 mill... loss of 33% of subs
Mists of Pandaria releases Sept 25, 2012 (lasted almost 26 months with LFR) STEADY DECLINE to under 7 million... loss of a total 41% from Wrath numbers
Warlords of Dreanor releases Nov 13 2014 (Still going... lol Impressive bump to 10 million subs.. but an embarrassing loss of over HALF of it's subs in the first 6 months... dropping to less than 40% after 12 months.

Wow now sits at about 25% of players it used to have. 3 out of 4 people no longer play this game.

At no time until LFR was added did WoW subs EVER decline... after which there has been steady and often drastic declines.

Whatever kept the game growing the first 6 years.. worked... even with only a small percentage seeing the endgame raid content. It was BECAUSE it was there and hard to access that kept raiding growing. It was when LFR was released that raiding declined and so did subs. It also killed the community of the game.. because it took guilds to form in order to raid.

This trend is irrefutable... and directly attributable to LFR and to a lesser degree LFD. The following expansions brought WAY too many new features... new professions, new race/class combos, pet battling, transmogging, etc... that SHOULD have grown the game... but instead LFR and the lack of motivation to attain a hard to reach endgame status overshadowed the gains by these other features.

Wrong, Cata lost 2+ million players before LFR was released and Blizzard has always said that their raids weren't being played by enough players since 2006 on. In a summer 2006 interview (sorry, can't find the articles but they do exist, I remember them :P ) they were thinking about making a cross realm raid finder (which they said would take a couple years to make and perfect) after they just released cross realm battlegrounds. In another 2007 interview the investors were complaining about raids being a huge cost investment for a small percentage of the playerbase and Blizzard again admitted to wanting to fix that somehow. Wrath is when major changes to these issues started to appear btw.

I remember the links to these being on the old World or Raids website which was the early MMOchampion for a bit. :P

But no, ultimately you are incorrect about LFR being the main reason people quit. Fuck no one knows really but since you stated it as fact disregarding the fact that a massive amount of players quit before LFR came out just outright proves you wrong.

[Queen of Hamsters]

But no, ultimately you are incorrect about LFR being the main reason people quit. Fuck no one knows really but since you stated it as fact disregarding the fact that a massive amount of players quit before LFR came out just outright proves you wrong.

Indeed. Fairly sure that if Blizzard had seen a corelation between LFR and sub losses, it would've been canned by now. They know why WoD bombed, and it was NOT due to LFR. MoP did pretty well considering the theme of the expansion polarized players, and that expansion had LFR alongside the rest.

[Soeroah]

LFR does not justify the development. Not when the previous model grew and sustained 12 million subs and since LFR was introduced raiding has declined and sub counts drop drastically early in each following expansion.

Vanilla release Nov. 23, 2004 (lasted 25 months) steady and HUGE increase to over 7.5 million players!
BC releases Jan 16 2007 (lasted 22 months) steady increase in subs!
Wrath releases Nov 13 2008 (lasted almost 25 months) stedy increase and ended with 12 million subs!
Cataclysm releases Dec 7, 2010 (lasted 22.5 months.. BUT introduced LFR) STEADY DECLINE to under 8 mill... loss of 33% of subs
Mists of Pandaria releases Sept 25, 2012 (lasted almost 26 months with LFR) STEADY DECLINE to under 7 million... loss of a total 41% from Wrath numbers
Warlords of Dreanor releases Nov 13 2014 (Still going... lol Impressive bump to 10 million subs.. but an embarrassing loss of over HALF of it's subs in the first 6 months... dropping to less than 40% after 12 months.

Wow now sits at about 25% of players it used to have. 3 out of 4 people no longer play this game.

At no time until LFR was added did WoW subs EVER decline... after which there has been steady and often drastic declines.

Whatever kept the game growing the first 6 years.. worked... even with only a small percentage seeing the endgame raid content. It was BECAUSE it was there and hard to access that kept raiding growing. It was when LFR was released that raiding declined and so did subs. It also killed the community of the game.. because it took guilds to form in order to raid.

This trend is irrefutable... and directly attributable to LFR and to a lesser degree LFD. The following expansions brought WAY too many new features... new professions, new race/class combos, pet battling, transmogging, etc... that SHOULD have grown the game... but instead LFR and the lack of motivation to attain a hard to reach endgame status overshadowed the gains by these other features.

Correlation, causation, blah blah. You sound pretty certain about something you can only hypothesise about.

As has been said, subs started dropping before LFR launched. Cataclysm's widely called the worst expansion. It was the first expansion that wasn't riding Warcraft III's coat tails. The Lich King hook from TFT was finally resolved. Many people disliked the new world, the way the new zones were "shallow", the way heroic dungeons were too hard...

And with all that, you decide unequivocally that LFR is the cause? You went in looking for data to support your forgone conclusion. The trend may be irrefutable, but so is the trend that since Game of Thrones came out WoW's subs have dropped. It doesn't imply cause.

[Maudib]

But no, ultimately you are incorrect about LFR being the main reason people quit. Fuck no one knows really but since you stated it as fact disregarding the fact that a massive amount of players quit before LFR came out just outright proves you wrong.

Actually, the subs leveled out around the release of Dungeon finder and started the decline in Cata... LFR is what drove home the demise of guilds and organized raiding as the norm.

Of course there are more factors than LFR alone... but the trends do not lie. I believe that had Blizzard had stuck to it's winning design prior to LFD/LFR... the game would be in MUCH better shape than it is today.

The very fact that subs rose to 10 million with WoD, with the expectations of the very return to BC then falling off lower than ANYTIME since vanilla in only 6 months supports this conclusion as well.

[Usagi Senshi]

Winning design, eh? Yeah, that same design that was falling apart in the background for years when the majority of the playerbase was casual non-raiders paying for the luxury of a few %. That was why the 10-man option was introduced in Wrath and was seriously considered for TBC as well.

Just give it up, you keep stating opinion as fact and its getting old and silly.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Actually, the subs leveled out around the release of Dungeon finder and started the decline in Cata... LFR is what drove home the demise of guilds and organized raiding as the norm.

Of course there are more factors than LFR alone... but the trends do not lie. I believe that had Blizzard had stuck to it's winning design prior to LFD/LFR... the game would be in MUCH better shape than it is today.

The very fact that subs rose to 10 million with WoD, with the expectations of the very return to BC then falling off lower than ANYTIME since vanilla in only 6 months supports this conclusion as well.

Lol...WoD lost so many subs because of a lack of content, nothing more and nothing less. If LFR hadn't been there, it's safe to assume that the drop would have been SIGNIFICANTLY bigger.

- - - Updated - - -

Winning design, eh? Yeah, that same design that was falling apart in the background for years when the majority of the playerbase was casual non-raiders paying for the luxury of a few %. That was why the 10-man option was introduced in Wrath and was seriously considered for TBC as well.

Just give it up, you keep stating opinion as fact and its getting old and silly.

Indeed. He WANTS LFR to be the reason, but it simply is not. When the game had lots of content, it retained players just fine during a 14 month-long end patch. LFR included.

[Usagi Senshi]

Fuck, I wanted to quit during Cata but I bought into that stupid contract thing for free Diablo III and I was a guild leader, tank, and raid leader at the time. I just couldn't up and leave my team behind. I broke the guild early in MoP though but the game was so good I stuck around until i quit twice in MoP (once for the FFXIV relaunch and again before we downed Heroic 10-man Garrosh).

[tj119]

"seeing this LFR player with a fully decked out artifact is affecting my play style and I can't stand for this"

yes though, Mythic raiders will have better artifacts.

Cause walking through the game in the mode that takes very literally no amount of actual competency deserves the best gear right?

[Usagi Senshi]

Cause walking through the game in the mode that takes very literally no amount of actual competency deserves the best gear right?

Totally worth it just to piss off the few tryhard wannabe hardcore players that only care about loot when they should be caring about progression.

[Seramore]

Cause walking through the game in the mode that takes very literally no amount of actual competency deserves the best gear right?

"seeing this LFR player with a fully decked out artifact is affecting my play style and I can't stand for this"

oh hey you just echoed the OP

[SidFwuff]

Cause walking through the game in the mode that takes very literally no amount of actual competency deserves the best gear right?

Why not?

Opening up Premade Group Finder for months now has been filled with "WTS Mythic HFC Run", "Friendship Moose streaming tonight!" and "WTS Gold Trial Runs"

Considering 25% of the raid are carries, it only takes a few runs before the number of people being carried through WoW's most difficult content outnumber the people that actually earned it.

I wouldn't be surprised if a significant majority of players with Mythic achievements were carried.