I KNEW the movie would flop

[baskev]

Point being that if I quote multiple people with a general response, I'm not talking to any of you in particular, but in general saying "Here's the data we have available; Why are you speculating? If you'd read the front page you wouldn't need to speculate". I stand by that statement (But if you think you have more up to date or reliable info, feel free to share with the class).



I'm not trolling you; I'm responding to your post. You were the one who attacked me with the assumption that I was in the "I dislike the movie"-boat, while all I really care about is facts. Of course I'm going to tell you off for that, let's be real; You can't be outraged that I get annoyed at your tone when I go out of my way to explain that I do in fact *not* dislike or like the movie due to not having seen it.


First off, no, your issue isn't the placement of your commas. That's minor. Nobody is going to blame you for that. What I'm saying is that "twisting my words are you" literally is not a sentence. That's Yoda-Speak. I get the meaning; You want to say "You are twisting my words". That's one among many of entirely butchered sentences that I have to *guess* to make sense of.

That said, I'm not English or American either; I don't see what that has to do with this. I'm pointing out that in some parts of your posts, I literally have to guess to make sense of what you're saying, so if I misinterpret it, that's on *YOU* to elaborate it better without taking offense.


So you keep yapping about "doing research", and yet if you search for "Warcraft movie release date" on google, IMDB is the first result. I'm extremely curious at this point; Where did you get your information of 6 countries? What sort of research lead you to that amount when google delivers an accurate result instantly?
You also say it's not "all the major markets", but that's sort of not relevant to the discussion at all (and it does include all the scandinavian countries, russia, France, Germany and the UK - the only real "major" markets for Warcraft left were China and US).

And it's possible that the term "pre launch" or "early showing" is used sometimes, but this isn't the case here; This was just actual release dates for the countries. Denmark getting the movie two weeks prior to the US had nothing to do with an "early showing" or "pre launch"; It was a release date, because it was released in all cinemas in the country, with no restrictions. I'd concede that the 24th premiere might have been a "pre launch" showing, as it's shown to be released to the rest of france a day later; But that's it.



...What exactly have you seen in several times in smaller cinemas?



That's because your point was irrelevant. This is what you were going for: "Only 6 countries out of 193 had it showed early, that's nothing! They are such a small fraction of the market that we can easily discount that the movie has been out for weeks in those, because compared to the release date for the rest of the world, it really won't matter!"

Now, replace "6" with "24", and replace "193" with "64" (63, now that I reread the list, as France is listed twice due to the premiere). Suddenly your statement has a lot less weight, which is why I pointed out that the total number of countries in the world has no effect on this discussion; Only the confirmed countries the movie will be released in.




They're not rants. Have you never had a discussion with someone before? I'll elaborate how they work:

You post something that I find I disagree with. In a civil tone, I point out why I think it's wrong, and if at all possible, provide evidence/facts/arguments as to why.

You then counter those arguments with your own reasoning, and on we go untill we have reached a conclusion we can both be happy with (or someone gets bored). That's what's happening here; You respond to my points, and I in turn respond to your counter-points with my own. This isn't "trolling". This is a "healthy discussion". Trolling would be me attempting to take an outlandish standpoint such as arguing against a proven fact while calling you an idiot for not believing me ("THE SUN REVOLVES AROUND EARTH! YOU'RE A MORON IF YOU CAN'T SEE IT LOL UNEDUCATED PEASANT"), or by touching on some extremely subjective and personal opinion and putting down anyone who disagrees with you (such as say, religion).

Answering your arguments with my own is *not* in fact trolling <.<.

Jebus christ.....all i said was something about the numbers freaking drama queen.

Again you smart ass read what i wrote. You responded with text of mine ( a quote) its normal for people to think you are talking about them.
Again did i say anything about that mmo champion data...NO....did i give extra information YES....i told you the actual numbers/movie ticket sales they mad so far. So learn 2 read? I did not speculate i looked up the numbers of the sales so far. and with 1 to 3 weeks ( depending on the location) i posted the numbers.

I did not attack you on your like or dislike of the movie ( I have said this before). I also did not attack, i responded to you. Attack means i want to hurt you...witch i do not. So i do not know where the illusion comes from that i had/attack you for your feelings ( witch you may have) about the movie.

Again about my speech...i am not English/american. So some things get lost in translation ( ooohh i speak 5 language but not inertly perfect....get a life). So your not English or American who care's. Not talking about you, i am talking about me. Why my grammar is not that great. And you are misinterpreting nothing you choose to ignore stuff. For example i never attacked you or anything like that. But you keep bringing it up?

And again learn 2 read. I say the last post that i was faulty in the launch date research. And again those 6 major releases where wrong on my part said that already. Those 6 launch country's ( if looked at it again) are the 6 major/important launch country's. And other major markets: rest of freaking asia ( korea/japan and certain south american country's....)

You may not have seen/hear those terms about pre launch i did.

What movies???? several cartoon movies when i was small, star wars, star trek etc etc...lotr.

Yup i was going for the fact that you where talking like it was released for ages in allot of country's.
Less weight still does not make it invalid.....

You are ranting.
I posted something i disagree wth. you responded with this line >> Not picking any sides as to if it's good or not as I haven't seen it, but figured I'd throw in that information, considering apparently nobody reads MMO-champion frontpage xd. << again That is not talking to everyone or "discussing something" That is saying. You ( me) have said a number. But considering no one reads mmo champion frontpage her is my (yours) info.
If you really wanted to discuss something with a person you would have said something different. Because again if you talk about someone ( for example)like this:
friend A says: I got a tattoo
Friend B says: Okay nice
Friend B says: But everyone with tattoo's are Emo's who need attention.

Friend A could think ( if you do not say anything else) that you also mean him.

As for going on about having a discussion. In a discussion you also listen/read what the other person has to say. Your are not reading even simple yes or no answers to your discussion points. Or only choose to answer certain parts. That is not discussing things. That is twisting words/making statements to "win" the discussion. I have responded to all your points. You do not. I see your points sometimes and have said yes...you are correct in that respect.

And if you are not discussing honestly ...then you are in fact trolling.

[Grenzstein]

It seems this forum is still filled with doom and gloom and warcraft haters. It's funny really. People hate Warcraft so much that they spend their lives here preaching against it. But it's useless, the movie is making lots of cash and has really favourable user reviews. That's what matters in the end: They are getting cash and the fans are happy. Just the critics and a vocal minority are complaining about the movie. And this vocal minority is always against everything warcraft.

The movie, while not a masterpiece, is pretty fun and the best game movie ever.

[Deleted]

Right now, sitting at a disastrous score in RT. It begs the question to what Blizzard was thinking with this shit again.

What was the point?

Read this post when it was fresh, thought I'd revisit it after reviews came in from non-critics. Glad to see the film is killing it, 300mil in the box office so far Glad Duncan and Blizzard nailed it

Also OP, glad you're wrong with this kind of attitude!

[Spinster]

Hollywood is deliberately obscure with numbers as much as possible. Not only do they skew things to make a movie look like a success, they then skew things when it comes to paying percentages to anyone who got them (sometimes actors get a percentage in lieu of a big salary up-front).

The movie is not a very good movie for all the reasons people have already stated. This does not mean one cannot enjoy it on some level. Most people have bad movies they are fond of, even critics.

Popularity has nothing to do with quality. If that was true then the best cuisine would be McDonalds and the best PCs would be purchased from Walmart and Best Buy and Candy Crush would be a terrific game. "Da Da Da" by Trio and "Winds of Change" by The Scorpions would be much better pop music than anything by The Beatles. You get my drift.

The best of anything is rarely the most popular.

[Jibjub]

Where are people getting they made half their money the first week? Is that first week of international openings (which look spread out as well)? Budget is projected at 160 million and it's already past 300 million. They've doubled the production budget, which suggests they should be covering promotional by now as well. I can easily see them reaching 500 million if the overseas market stays strong.

I would guess this "500MM to break even" number is accounting for the HUGE promotion budget + the production budget.

[Soulwind]

I would guess this "500MM to break even" number is accounting for the HUGE promotion budget + the production budget.

It's an overkill. The real number is probably somewhere between 300M and 500M, but it's very hard to know exactly where.

If it gets 500M, a Director's Cut and a sequel are pretty much guaranteed. If it doesn't, then we won't know for sure until they announce them.

[High Marshal Sigismund]

I didn't expect this much of a drop off. They got to 280 million comfortably with the weekend looming ahead, and now they are only at 304 million?

I was expecting them to break 400 million before all was said and done.

[Jibjub]

It's an overkill. The real number is probably somewhere between 300M and 500M, but it's very hard to know exactly where.

If it gets 500M, a Director's Cut and a sequel are pretty much guaranteed. If it doesn't, then we won't know for sure until they announce them.

I agree that the number is high.

And like I mentioned somewhere in this thread already ... this movie is also just a long advertisement for WoW and Blizzard, which won't get included in the final gross amount but you bet your bottom dollar is being tracked by analysts and big wigs. If they get 100,000 more legion purchases or 10,000 more subs because of the movie ... that's money in the pocket.

The added game dimension makes this a whole other beast. For example, if Legion fails big time and the movie does OK (otherwise good enough to make a sequel) then they still might not make a sequel. It's a variable that no one is really talking about.

[quras]

I didn't expect this much of a drop off. They got to 280 million comfortably with the weekend looming ahead, and now they are only at 304 million?

I was expecting them to break 400 million before all was said and done.

It had a limited window of success. There was an article posted early about how the main target audience for warcraft would be burned through the first weekend and percent drop off would be high. The targeted age group will have seen it and moved on. It didn't have the stamina to keep weekend numbers high along with the coming competition.

It will be interesting to see what percent drop it actually has. Did that theory hold true in the end. They were almost dead on for how much it would make in the U.S. market. so I'm curious if there right about that too.

I agree that the number is high.
SNIP...

I don't think it's all that high. Even if you use the age old formula of double the marketing and budget cost you still get around 500M.

160M budget and something like 100M in A&P. 260M roughly spent meaning they need to get around 520M to break even given all the costs and contracts and only a percent of ticket sales etc... Granted it's not a concrete formula but you can bet the money the movie needs is closer to 500M than 400M and 300M is very likely not even in the ball park.

[Beet]

It's honestly kind of sick, the amount of people that have been ready to dismiss this film since it was announced. Keep in mind, this is coming from a person who considers this movie a 6.5/10. The hate for Warcraft is unprecedented and incredibly one dimensional. Critics of this movie giving it a zero or a three or whatever are plebeians. It has a ton of glaring issues but by no stretch of the imagination is this as bad as Battlefield Earth.

At the end of the day, it is an entertaining film with some serious issues. It could have been better, but it could have been done a fuck of a lot worse. like I said earlier, I would give it a 6.5/10, and this is coming from a huge fan of the universe. People giving it a 10/10 are as blind as the folks giving it a fucking 1/10.

Well said man. I haven't seen it yet myself, but I always question people who rate it a 1 or 10. The movie obviously isn't The Godfather standard nor is it Battlefield Earth quality as you said. I can tell that just based on the trailers alone. But yeah people want it to fail because they think it proves something with their original hate for the game itself.

I will say though I just don't see a sequel being made which saddens me because if any franchise deserves a second chance movie it's Warcraft.

[Jibjub]

It had a limited window of success. There was an article posted early about how the main target audience for warcraft would be burned through the first weekend and percent drop off would be high. The targeted age group will have seen it and moved on. It didn't have the stamina to keep weekend numbers high along with the coming competition.

It will be interesting to see what percent drop it actually has. Did that theory hold true in the end. They were almost dead on for how much it would make in the U.S. market. so I'm curious if there right about that too.



I don't think it's all that high. Even if you use the age old formula of double the marketing and budget cost you still get around 500M.

160M budget and something like 100M in A&P. 260M roughly spent meaning they need to get around 520M to break even given all the costs and contracts and only a percent of ticket sales etc... Granted it's not a concrete formula but you can bet the money the movie needs is closer to 500M than 400M and 300M is very likely not even in the ball park.

Ant Man barely made it passed 500MM worldwide and it is slated for a sequel (prod budget was 130MM compared to Warcraft's 160MM).

I think there are a lot of critics who are just anti-video game movies. Warcraft on RT has a 27% / 83% score (critic / viewer) and Snowpiercer (for Christ's sake) has 97% / 72% ... it's an echo chamber. And of course a lot of people on MMO-Champ who view WoW like they do a scorned ex-lover. They don't want it to be happy.

I haven't seen the movie yet but plan to this week. I am sure I will be VERY critical of it (I thought Star Wars: the Force Awakens was a travesty fan-service film that's only real level of success was that it felt very much like a star wars movie).

[Beet]

See, and I liked most of the acting. I thought the Queen and Garona did a great job and actually were the best of the bunch. I thought the actor that played Khadgar really came across as a amateurish kid - which is what he was supposed to be. Not because of lack of skill, but because that's what the part required. The orc voice acting was superb, and I liked Lothar too - in fact, he was my favorite human. I can see how some people might think Medivhs actor was over the top, but that's just how Medivhs character is. King Llane though - I'll give you that one

Holy shit you thought Paula Patton did a great job? She's the reason I cringe watching the trailers and commercials. Everything I've read has said she gave the worst performance out of everyone here bar none. She was wooden and it just felt like she didn't want to even be there according to others. As I said earlier I haven't seen it yet, but the one major negative to me already is her. The other actors specifically the guys playing Durotan and Lothar seem great. But ugh Paula Patton. I've never seen one thing with her in it that was good. Not one iota.

Also you can't really say an actors performance being over the top is due to how a character is supposed to be. The Medivh in the movie isn't the Medivh we know at all.

But yeah yet again I have to say it saddens me to see the movie have such a low opening in the states. I still have high hopes for a sequel though. I think China is going to be the reason we do see a sequel. The movie has at least proved this franchise has a lot of potential.

Edit: @baskev - Just stop bro. You're getting decimated here by Dracodraco.

[TheTaurenOrc]

Ant Man barely made it passed 500MM worldwide and it is slated for a sequel (prod budget was 130MM compared to Warcraft's 160MM)

Ant Man's domestic gross was also 35% of the total gross, compared to Warcraft's current 8%. Domestic box office means a lot to studios.

Big movies are obviously big every where, Jurassic Park, Avengers, Star Wars est. But the formula for success worldwide and in China in-particular still isn't clear. A strong US box office is much more bankable for a sequel.

[Jibjub]

Ant Man's domestic gross was also 35% of the total gross, compared to Warcraft's current 8%. Domestic box office means a lot to studios.

Big movies are obviously big every where, Jurassic Park, Avengers, Star Wars est. But the formula for success worldwide and in China in-particular still isn't clear. A strong US box office is much more bankable for a sequel.

I agree. HOWEVER, money is money. If Warcraft did well enough overseas, it wouldn't mean nothing. But the poor domestic showing so far means it needs to do THAT much better overseas. They could do a sequel and do much less promotion in the US.

Time will tell! I have no dog in the fight. I look forward to seeing it.

[Madeupname999]

Really did seem it was doomed to fail in the US at the start and as someone who lives in the US i can tell you the Promotion has been god awful here and my local theatre Harkins only has 4 showings a day but they are showing 10 screenings of that fucking awful Michael Bay shite TMNT.

Anway i do believe it has earned a sequel and i do expect they will cut the budget down which means they will have to do alot more with alot less. Not sure what the future holds for this franchise on the big screen but i do hope they go to the drawing board and do the Arthas story and this time promote it better and maybe make the movie longer so all the characters can be adequately explained to all those who were not familar with the game.

[quras]

Ant Man barely made it passed 500MM worldwide and it is slated for a sequel (prod budget was 130MM compared to Warcraft's 160MM).

And Antman made more profit domestically, was overall liked better all across the board. Plus I don't doubt Disney/marvel has better deals for marketing given the assets they own for that sort of thing. Cutting down the cost of marketing. Antman made movie. Warcraft will too if it can reach 500M or at least close. Will it be enough to get more warcraft. Hard to say.

I think there are a lot of critics who are just anti-video game movies. Warcraft on RT has a 27% / 83% score (critic / viewer) and Snowpiercer (for Christ's sake) has 97% / 72% ... it's an echo chamber. And of course a lot of people on MMO-Champ who view WoW like they do a scorned ex-lover. They don't want it to be happy.

I don't buy into that theory. warcraft just had to many issues that critics are more receptive of. Granted there were a couple that makes you think WTF but overall you got an average fantasy movie and that gets little accolades.

I haven't seen the movie yet but plan to this week. I am sure I will be VERY critical of it (I thought Star Wars: the Force Awakens was a travesty fan-service film that's only real level of success was that it felt very much like a star wars movie).

Hope it everything you want in warcraft movie. It just wasn't for me. It had it's moments but not enough of them.

I agree. HOWEVER, money is money. If Warcraft did well enough overseas, it wouldn't mean nothing. But the poor domestic showing so far means it needs to do THAT much better overseas. They could do a sequel and do much less promotion in the US.

Time will tell! I have no dog in the fight. I look forward to seeing it.

If they do any less promotion in the U.S. few would even know it was playing at all. Marketing in the U.S. was pretty terrible. They pulled out all teh stops on China marketing it seems.

[Kellorion]

If we have a megathread, why is this still open?

[Jibjub]

If they do any less promotion in the U.S. few would even know it was playing at all. Marketing in the U.S. was pretty terrible. They pulled out all teh stops on China marketing it seems.

Really? I feel like I saw it everywhere. Saw it a good amount in Ireland, too, while I was there. More so than any 'competition' (Ninja Turtles, The Conjuring, Me Before You, Now You See Me 2) ... maybe just because, having been a long-time player of WoW, I was more in tune and likely to notice the adverts.

[quras]

Really? I feel like I saw it everywhere. Saw it a good amount in Ireland, too, while I was there. More so than any 'competition' (Ninja Turtles, The Conjuring, Me Before You, Now You See Me 2) ... maybe just because, having been a long-time player of WoW, I was more in tune and likely to notice the adverts.

Marketing was there but I don't think it was anything major or anything like what was seen overseas. I really don't think the could do less.

http://variety.com/2016/film/asia/te...-s-1201794300/

[Jibjub]

Marketing was there but I don't think it was anything major or anything like what was seen overseas. I really don't think the could do less.

http://variety.com/2016/film/asia/te...-s-1201794300/

Interesting! I guess we wait and see!