[Megathread] XboxOne Project Scorpio

[Jtbrig7390]

Anyone interested in that new XboxOne (The Upgraded one next year) should watch this video.



I do not see native 4k/60fps gaming coming from that system like they claim. Also the price point has got to be high as hell.

Lets say they do native 4k/60fps. That is still going to put the price point well above $600.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...-spec-analysis

Based on existing AMD Radeon technology, the bottom line is that 6TF of GPU power isn't enough to power a convincing 4K experience. AMD's R9 390X offers around 5.9TF and struggles to push 4K resolution at anything like 30fps on modern PC titles. Now, we can assume that the move to the next-gen GCN architecture will give us some efficiency improvements, but it's hard to believe that this is enough to turn a 390X-level GPU into a top-tier Radeon R9 Fury X equivalent (8.4TF).

Here is my issues with this..
1) I just don't see how they are going to pull it off. The hardware rumored on can NOT do 4k/60fps native. Now if they upscale some games can do it. But they are saying it will be native 4k gaming.
2) Even if they can pull 4k/60fps native gaming the cost is going to be well above console price.
3) No matter how this works out its going to cost at lease $600 if not more.

I just don't see how this is a good idea and to be honest they will be back to square one again with Sony releasing the cheaper system. This time the XB1 will be more powerful but does it matter when the price will be so much higher?

Most console gamer's just want a console you plug in and play. They also don't want to break the bank to get it ether. I personally don't see a point in 4k gaming atm even more so when it comes to consoles. It feels like Microsoft wants to play catch up with PC's and at the same time blow Sony's system out of the water.

[Seifa]

Yeah, sure. 4k/60fps at 600€ range is just delusional. What's the budget for a PC to reach that breakpoint with the newest hardware in the market? Add the fact that the Scorpio has to be assembled soon for testing purposes so it has to be bult with components that exist and not something in the future and by the end of 2017 it will be already behind.
I think Microsoft is just trying to push a new console to win the raw power competition against Sony and its PS4.5 while promising the moon.

And now the console market has reached the point of faster and faster upgrades.

[Tech614]

You have to remember how MS is making this easy on developers with the dynamic scaling feature.

This means taking the base Xbox One version and increasing resolution as framerate as possible.

So in the vast majority of games? Yea it wouldn't surprise me at all if it's running games at Xbox One base settings at native 4k and 60 fps. For the developers that go the extra mile beyond the dynamic scaling feature though? 4k/30 is a probability.

[Jtbrig7390]

You have to remember how MS is making this easy on developers with the dynamic scaling feature.

This means taking the base Xbox One version and increasing resolution as framerate as possible.

So in the vast majority of games? Yea it wouldn't surprise me at all if it's running games at Xbox One base settings at native 4k and 60 fps. For the developers that go the extra mile beyond the dynamic scaling feature though? 4k/30 is a probability.

If you watch the video I linked it can't be done at native.

You can do a upscale 4k/60fps by cutting the pixel count by 80% but like I said that's not native. Then once again there is the price. Even to pull upscaled 4k/60fps your paying more then $600 for it.

Microsoft is making claims of 4k/60fps native. The video above showed BF1 getting scaled back in pixels by 80% to achieve this on a more powerful rig. Having to lower the pixel count does not make it native anymore.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, sure. 4k/60fps at 600€ range is just delusional. What's the budget for a PC to reach that breakpoint with the newest hardware in the market? Add the fact that the Scorpio has to be assembled soon for testing purposes so it has to be bult with components that exist and not something in the future and by the end of 2017 it will be already behind.
I think Microsoft is just trying to push a new console to win the raw power competition against Sony and its PS4.5 while promising the moon.

And now the console market has reached the point of faster and faster upgrades.

I personally don't mind upgrading every 3-5 years (More so 5 years) providing I feel like I need it. I could get another 2-3 years easy out of my ps4 before feeling like I need a new one and by then the next system is cheaper.

If people recall consoles got a new version around every 5th year. Last gen was a fluke in the system (and great fluke) but still a fluke,

[Tech614]

If you watch the video I linked it can't be done at native.

If you watched the video you linked you would know this was not said.

If you don't understand the difference from 1.3 tflops to 6 tflops while having a game running at same settings and only higher framerates and resolution well that's on you...

Fact is no one know how this is going to turn out, because MSs dynamic scaling feature is something that has never been done before.

[Jtbrig7390]

If you watched the video you linked you would know this was not said.

If you don't understand the difference from 1.3 tflops to 6 tflops while having a game running at same settings and only higher framerates and resolution well that's on you...

Fact is no one know how this is going to turn out, because MSs dynamic scaling feature is something that has never been done before.

Right in the link I provided.

Based on existing AMD Radeon technology, the bottom line is that 6TF of GPU power isn't enough to power a convincing 4K experience. AMD's R9 390X offers around 5.9TF and struggles to push 4K resolution at anything like 30fps on modern PC titles. Now, we can assume that the move to the next-gen GCN architecture will give us some efficiency improvements, but it's hard to believe that this is enough to turn a 390X-level GPU into a top-tier Radeon R9 Fury X equivalent (8.4TF).

And yes when he did the testing of BF on the much more powerful rig he says and I quote

If we use Battlefrounts internal resolution scaler to drop the pixel counter to 80%, that's about 3264x1836 and yes we get to 60fps and it looks magnificent but that is still upscaling

The XboxOne Project Scropio will NOT be hitting 4k/60fps native. Hell PC's are barely able to do 4k/60fps native now. Are you telling me a $600 console (at best) is going to be able to do something PC's can barely do that cost 1k.

MS is not the only ones doing dynamic scaling and once again that's not native 4k. Also do you realize how much strain it will be on the system jumping back and forth between 4k and anything less?

Will the system do video playback of 4k... Yep.

But running games even more so AAA titles at 4k/60fps is not going to happen. The hardware is NOT there for it.

But for giggles lets say they did, The price alone is going to go through the roof. Anyone who thinks this system will be under $600(At Best) and pull native 4k/60fps is out of there minds.

[Tech614]

PC barely being able to hit 4k/60 now has what relevance to an Xbox One settings game hitting it?

How about you go put together a PC as close to original xbox one specs as possible and see what you get.

This is a great video, and the fact you're using straight hyperbole and quoting out of context to try and prove what really? I'm not sure. Either way I'm done with this thread I think.

[Jtbrig7390]

PC barely being able to hit 4k/60 now has what relevance to an Xbox One settings game hitting it?

How about you go put together a PC as close to original xbox one specs as possible and see what you get.

This is a great video, and the fact you're using straight hyperbole and quoting out of context to try and prove what really? I'm not sure. Either way I'm done with this thread I think.

Shhhh child its clear you don't know what your talking about and I am done replying to you.

You ignore the video and the link provided with it that outright states as much. Also PC's not being able to do it matter because guess what....The Consoles are fucken PC's.

There is ZERO chance of it doing 4k/60fps with the hardware info provided. Even more so when top of the line cards are barely able to do it.

But like I said shhh child because I am done talking to you. Its clear I know more about PC's and this then you.

How about you go put together a PC as close to original xbox one specs as possible and see what you get.

You realize this has been done right?

[Edge-]

Alright, both of you knock it off. Post respectfully or infractions start going out.

[Deleted]

While watching Euro 2016 some random thoughts from a guy who went PS4 after initial reveal, switched to Xbox for Forza and uses the console rarely, most of the time for party multiplayer with friends, playing some sports games (Forza, Fifa, Rocket League)

- not interested in 4k at all
- current console power sufficient for many games...
- ...but not for all, Star Wars Battlefront looks pitiful on Xbox
- absolutely unwilling to invest 600 or 700€ in a new console
- rather take the money and buy a new (Win 10) PC earlier
- less likely to buy new Xbox hardware like controller or wheel
- less likely to buy Xbox games unless they also work on PC

[zito]

Microsoft has to get into the VR market like everything else they do.

[McLovenIt]

if they put Madden onto PC and just let me use an XBox Controller.....I would never own a console ever again. But than again, I could just keep this XB1 and not waste my money on another console.

PC is where it's at folks, and if you take a look. You'd see that's exactly what these "consoles" have become. It's just a computer you plug into your TV.

[Deleted]

Microsoft has to get into the VR market like everything else they do.

Hololens? or scarasm?

Ontopic : Does it say they will run every single title at 4k/60fps?

[zito]

Hololens? or scarasm?

Ontopic : Does it say they will run every single title at 4k/60fps?

Microsoft literally puts their hands in every kind of market that appears so no.

[Jtbrig7390]

Hololens? or scarasm?

Ontopic : Does it say they will run every single title at 4k/60fps?

In there announcement they state games will run native 4k/60fps. But we did find out later its up to the devs if they wish to do that. If anything they will upscale to 4k.

With the hardware we know I don't see them doing upscale or native 4k/60fps. If by some chance it does and ill admit I could be wrong there is no way that system is cheaper then $600.

Price Point is one of the major things with consoles. What is the point in spending $600+ for a console when you can build a PC. There isn't one and people will just flock to the Ps4 Neo or keep there XB1/XB1S.

Also another thing that kinda annoyed me.

They annouced a XB1S and then go in a year we will have a much better system. Like what is the point of the XB1S? barely anyone will switch from the original to it and most without who watched the show will wait for the new one.

[Remilia]

Just a note @Jtbrig7390
cause lazy quote is not in me.

Console and PC differs from one thing, and it always has. It's a set hardware. What it means is that they can program to bare metal which means efficient use of hardware. You can quote pc and console being the same architecture but that doesn't matter cause it's always the software that matters. Saying console has the same hardware as pc is pointless because consoles have always been a 'pc', hell it's called Famicom for a reason. The requirements of a console has been the same as pc since inception. Cpu, gpu (ignore old old ones), memory, bios, etc. It's something that I wish people would drop because it's dumb.

What has always matter is software and PC is extremely inefficient at utilizing hardware. A console can program bare metal because it is one set of hardware. Having two sets of hardware compatible however means you either A. Have very similar hardware, architecture, including cache, latency, RAM, etc, or you add a layer of abstraction which allows for better compatibility but less efficient use of hardware.

[Jtbrig7390]

Just a note @Jtbrig7390
cause lazy quote is not in me.

Console and PC differs from one thing, and it always has. It's a set hardware. What it means is that they can program to bare metal which means efficient use of hardware. You can quote pc and console being the same architecture but that doesn't matter cause it's always the software that matters. Saying console has the same hardware as pc is pointless because consoles have always been a 'pc', hell it's called Famicom for a reason. The requirements of a console has been the same as pc since inception. Cpu, gpu (ignore old old ones), memory, bios, etc. It's something that I wish people would drop because it's dumb.

What has always matter is software and PC is extremely inefficient at utilizing hardware. A console can program bare metal because it is one set of hardware. Having two sets of hardware compatible however means you either A. Have very similar hardware, architecture, including cache, latency, RAM, etc, or you add a layer of abstraction which allows for better compatibility but less efficient use of hardware.

That is quite true but with that said I still don't see Halo 6 4k/60fps happening. If I am wrong when it releases ill admit as much. But to add as well if they do pull it off its going to cost a fuck ton.

I personally don't see what market they are trying to go for with this. The Ps4k I get it streams in 4k and shit runs better. But the XB1 Scorpio I just don't see who they are marketing it to.

I also don't see it being under $600 or even near that at all.

As I said if they can do it ill "Eat My Hat" and say I am wrong. I just don't see where its possable at this time. They are trying to outright do something that even high end PC's have trouble with.

As I said its not going to be cheap..

[Deleted]

Just a note @Jtbrig7390
cause lazy quote is not in me.

Console and PC differs from one thing, and it always has. It's a set hardware. What it means is that they can program to bare metal which means efficient use of hardware. You can quote pc and console being the same architecture but that doesn't matter cause it's always the software that matters.

That's fine and all, but how much does 'closer to the hardware' get you in performance? Educated guess? 25%? 15%? Possibly even less with DX12?

Sure, we can still argue, that PC beformance will - on top of that - will be worse, as the average gamer will run anti-virus software, e-mail software manga- or whatever stream, teamspeak and Lightroom in the background. Where I want to get at, is the console's extra performance worth the lack of versatility in comparison to a gaming PC? Or are more and more people better off by not buying a (closer to gaming PC than ever) console and just adding the saved money to their gaming PC budget?

[Remilia]

Waaay more than that, considering Asynchronous compute on console already nets 30%+ performance for just early implementations (going off Oxide's dev statement) where on PC it nets 5-10%
DX12 does not allow that much of a fine tuning. Using the L2 Cache and fine tuning it for compute so it doesn't hinder graphics processing which reduces latency and overhead. Asking to only allocate 250MBs of RAM for ___ things is possible. The issue with PC is the hardware difference is too much. You CAN'T do these things. If you try, some cards may not work or just outright fail because it doesn't have it. It's why it's bare metal programming. You have to remember that DX12 still communicates to the driver, which then the driver communicates to the hardware. DX12 is great, but it still has limitations because it still needs a layer of abstraction in order to work across all compliant hardware.

Edit: And I've said it before (completely different thread, whatever), performance is only as good as the software developers, provided you don't hit the physical limit. PS3 start to PS3 end cycle image quality comparisons for example is one. Ubisoft managed to make tetris run like ass on PS4, I don't know how but they did. And then image quality to performance comparison for Uncharted 4 to any other game really on the market, top notch image quality but if you place it in similar hardware in a pc environment, expect that to tank immediately in performance.

[Zeta333]

Microsoft literally puts their hands in every kind of market that appears so no.

like sony?