Is this what a minister of public health should look like?

[May90]

She can't have tried that hard, it's extremely easy to lose weight when you weigh so much.

Listen to boogie's stories on Youtube. It is NOT easy, at all, and the real difficulty is not as much physical, as it is psychological. It is not just food addiction, the problem is much deeper, it is caused by countless factors piling up.

It's weird to me that people who have never had the obesity problem like to say how easy it is to drop weight. It is the same as some people who have never smoked say, "Giving up smoking is easy: just stop buying cigarettes". If things were that simple, then we would all be billionaires with perfect health; there would never be wars and any problems at all in our lives. Unfortunately, the reality is a bit more complicated, and simple "do it and that, and your problems will be solved" does not work more often than it does.

[Ashelorh]

Listen to boogie's stories on Youtube. It is NOT easy, at all, and the real difficulty is not as much physical, as it is psychological. It is not just food addiction, the problem is much deeper, it is caused by countless factors piling up.

It's weird to me that people who have never had the obesity problem like to say how easy it is to drop weight. It is the same as some people who have never smoked say, "Giving up smoking is easy: just stop buying cigarettes". If things were that simple, then we would all be billionaires with perfect health; there would never be wars and any problems at all in our lives. Unfortunately, the reality is a bit more complicated, and simple "do it and that, and your problems will be solved" does not work more often than it does.

I lost 150 pounds in 15 months.

[shadowmouse]

I'm strange, I want someone who is running things to get stuff done. By many modern measurements Churchill would have been mocked today, yet he got things done. In the case of Maggie De Block, it seems that she has been able to get things done:

As Minister for Immigration in the last Belgian government she was praised for slashing the number of asylum requests by almost half, from 27,000 per year to 15,000.

She was unmoved by hunger strikes and sent in the police to end them and to ensure that expulsion orders were carried out.

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...de-counts.html

[Allerius]

Listen to boogie's stories on Youtube. It is NOT easy, at all, and the real difficulty is not as much physical, as it is psychological. It is not just food addiction, the problem is much deeper, it is caused by countless factors piling up.

It's weird to me that people who have never had the obesity problem like to say how easy it is to drop weight. It is the same as some people who have never smoked say, "Giving up smoking is easy: just stop buying cigarettes". If things were that simple, then we would all be billionaires with perfect health; there would never be wars and any problems at all in our lives. Unfortunately, the reality is a bit more complicated, and simple "do it and that, and your problems will be solved" does not work more often than it does.

The argument isn't that it is easy in the sense that it is effortless, it's that if you are a mature adult with self control that isn't an impulsive monkey the weight comes off in a rapid, reliable and predictable fashion (i.e. easy) once you get your lifestyle in check. If you have the self control of a lower primate, then don't expect others to not treat you as such.

1. Not being disgustingly obese from feeding yourself crap all day every day
2. Making billions of dollars from nothing
3. Spreading a specific idealogy (pacifism) to all the people with power in the world
You should really consider the reasoning that let you to believe the above three things are analogous.

[Elim Garak]

Listen to boogie's stories on Youtube. It is NOT easy, at all, and the real difficulty is not as much physical, as it is psychological. It is not just food addiction, the problem is much deeper, it is caused by countless factors piling up.

It's weird to me that people who have never had the obesity problem like to say how easy it is to drop weight. It is the same as some people who have never smoked say, "Giving up smoking is easy: just stop buying cigarettes". If things were that simple, then we would all be billionaires with perfect health; there would never be wars and any problems at all in our lives. Unfortunately, the reality is a bit more complicated, and simple "do it and that, and your problems will be solved" does not work more often than it does.

I've lost weight easily by seeking professional medical help, I stayed at the hospital for two weeks to adapt to new eating habits (solves psychological issues) under the supervision of the doctor who planned my diet based on the results of my medical evaluation, because I really meant it when I said "I want to lose weight".

[TirielWoW]

I have certain issues which cause me to have to use a medication called Prednisone every so often. Ask anyone who's been on it, it's the most ravenous hunger you have ever imagined. You eat and eat and you're still hungry. First time I was on it I gained probably 45 lbs in ~2 months. Since then, anytime I'm on it, it's hell but I can control my eating. You can resist hunger, it's not easy, but it's doable.

It helps that you're not hungry due to starvation, starvation is typically what makes people desperate enough to do terrible things. That sort of situation isn't a lack of self control, just unfortunate circumstances.

If I come of as trying to insult your friend, I apologize, I'm not. It can be very hard to control hunger, and as you said, she didn't over eat.

I've been on Prednisone before (twice in the last three months). It doesn't have that reaction in me. That would really suck, though.

[May90]

I lost 150 pounds in 15 months.

I've lost weight easily by seeking professional medical help, I stayed at the hospital for two weeks to adapt to new eating habits (solves psychological issues) under the supervision of the doctor who planned my diet based on the results of my medical evaluation, because I really meant it when I said "I want to lose weight".

If you managed to do it, doesn't mean everyone can, does it?

The argument isn't that it is easy in the sense that it is effortless, it's that if you are a mature adult with self control that isn't an impulsive monkey the weight comes off in a rapid, reliable and predictable fashion (i.e. easy) once you get your lifestyle in check. If you have the self control of a lower primate, then don't expect others to not treat you as such.

1. Not being disgustingly obese from feeding yourself crap all day every day
2. Making billions of dollars from nothing
3. Spreading a specific idealogy (pacifism) to all the people with power in the world
You should really consider the reasoning that let you to believe the above three things are analogous.

But self-control does not exist in vacuum, it is affected by many things. Tell someone who is struggling with any problem, "Just control yourself, do this and that, and you will be fine", and most likely they respond, "Tell me something I don't know". The question is not what to do to drop weight; it is pretty clear in most cases. The question is how someone gets themselves to do it; and this is much more complicated than just, "have self-control".

You know, around 10 years ago I had a social anxiety problem, pretty serious one. What was the most common advice people gave me? "Just don't care what others think". Well, thanks cap, I figured that one on myself: if I stop caring what others think of me, my social anxiety will disappear. The real question is, how do I stop caring? And, again, people talk about self-control, etc... I wasn't weak-willed, by any margin: I did boxing and extreme exercising daily. And yet, this thing, I couldn't beat - because, I didn't know how to get myself to do things people recommended me to do.

How does a smoker give up smoking? Sounds easy: just stop buying cigarettes. Ha-h... I wonder if this advice has worked for anyone. Because the problem is much deeper: most people don't just smoke out of habit, they cover some other personal issues with this. Unless those other issues get addressed, smoking will likely prevail, unless the person has a monstrous willpower and can get themselves to do anything regardless of how they feel about it. And uncovering those issues - that's the real task, something psychologists work for decades to even approach understanding of.

[Deleted]

Damn son, thats so many chins that when she takes out her dentures she needs to put in a bookmark.

[Elim Garak]

If you managed to do it, doesn't mean everyone can, does it?

Everyone can, that's a scientific fact. It's this way of thinking - "I can't" that's what's wrong with people who "can't".

[May90]

Everyone can, that's a scientific fact. It's this way of thinking - "I can't" that's what's wrong with people who "can't".

That would only be a scientific fact if everyone actually did it. Note that physical "can" (as in "If I do everything the perfect way, I can do it") and actual "can" are different things. Everyone "can" be wealthy; not everyone can.

[Elim Garak]

That would only be a scientific fact if everyone actually did it.

No, can doesn't imply do

Note that physical "can" (as in "If I do everything the perfect way, I can do it") and actual "can" are different things. Everyone "can" be wealthy; not everyone can.

Everyone cannot be wealthy. Because at that very moment everyone will become poor due to inflation and devaluation of their wealth. Wealth is exclusive. But not being fat? Everyone can. it's the nature's norm. I'm shocked you are arguing against this.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

That would only be a scientific fact if everyone actually did it. Note that physical "can" (as in "If I do everything the perfect way, I can do it") and actual "can" are different things. Everyone "can" be wealthy; not everyone can.

Not necessarily how facts work. Anyone with fingers can pick their noses. But that doesn't mean everyone chooses to do so. Its the same with fitness.

[Allerius]

But self-control does not exist in vacuum, it is affected by many things. Tell someone who is struggling with any problem, "Just control yourself, do this and that, and you will be fine", and most likely they respond, "Tell me something I don't know". The question is not what to do to drop weight; it is pretty clear in most cases. The question is how someone gets themselves to do it; and this is much more complicated than just, "have self-control".

You know, around 10 years ago I had a social anxiety problem, pretty serious one. What was the most common advice people gave me? "Just don't care what others think". Well, thanks cap, I figured that one on myself: if I stop caring what others think of me, my social anxiety will disappear. The real question is, how do I stop caring? And, again, people talk about self-control, etc... I wasn't weak-willed, by any margin: I did boxing and extreme exercising daily. And yet, this thing, I couldn't beat - because, I didn't know how to get myself to do things people recommended me to do.

How does a smoker give up smoking? Sounds easy: just stop buying cigarettes. Ha-h... I wonder if this advice has worked for anyone. Because the problem is much deeper: most people don't just smoke out of habit, they cover some other personal issues with this. Unless those other issues get addressed, smoking will likely prevail, unless the person has a monstrous willpower and can get themselves to do anything regardless of how they feel about it. And uncovering those issues - that's the real task, something psychologists work for decades to even approach understanding of.

Self control does exist just like any other characteristic exists. The fact that telling someone to gain self control won't give them self control isn't the point. The point is that these people don't have self control and are ultimately responsible for their faults. Lots of people have quit smoking, and the ones who failed lacked willpower plain and simple. I also don't see why you keep bringing up smoking. Smokes contain dependence inducing substances that make it a lot harder to quit than simply changing your diet and exercising a bit. 99.9% of people used to be not be obese until about the 20th century, it really isn't this great task. You don't even need to starve yourself, just eat fibrous vegetables instead of binging on potato chips to relieve your hunger.

As for your personal issues realize that either you lacked motivation or were weak willed. The task in front of you was clear and you chose to not do it. The only explanations were that you lacked motivation or willpower. The fact you exercise shows absolutely nothing as it is easy to do something you enjoy. I exercise pretty heavily too and it's easier than getting up in the morning because I personally enjoy it.

[Ashelorh]

If you managed to do it, doesn't mean everyone can, does it?


But self-control does not exist in vacuum, it is affected by many things. Tell someone who is struggling with any problem, "Just control yourself, do this and that, and you will be fine", and most likely they respond, "Tell me something I don't know". The question is not what to do to drop weight; it is pretty clear in most cases. The question is how someone gets themselves to do it; and this is much more complicated than just, "have self-control".

You know, around 10 years ago I had a social anxiety problem, pretty serious one. What was the most common advice people gave me? "Just don't care what others think". Well, thanks cap, I figured that one on myself: if I stop caring what others think of me, my social anxiety will disappear. The real question is, how do I stop caring? And, again, people talk about self-control, etc... I wasn't weak-willed, by any margin: I did boxing and extreme exercising daily. And yet, this thing, I couldn't beat - because, I didn't know how to get myself to do things people recommended me to do.

How does a smoker give up smoking? Sounds easy: just stop buying cigarettes. Ha-h... I wonder if this advice has worked for anyone. Because the problem is much deeper: most people don't just smoke out of habit, they cover some other personal issues with this. Unless those other issues get addressed, smoking will likely prevail, unless the person has a monstrous willpower and can get themselves to do anything regardless of how they feel about it. And uncovering those issues - that's the real task, something psychologists work for decades to even approach understanding of.

Here's the thing though, what is considered difficult or easy is subjective. I can somewhat agree with you on the psychological part, but when I said that it's easy, I meant the physical part, the fatter you are, the more calories you consume, therefore, you will lose weight very fast as a morbidly obese person.

[shadowmouse]

Yawn. Another fat thread, the usual argument, the usual suspects. That pretty much proves that the thread had little to do with a person's ability to do a job and it was just a platform for beating a dead horse that should have already been reduced to sub-atomic particles.

@May90 You can't argue with people about their religion, the more so when that person sees themselves as successfully reformed. Notice the responses you've been getting. Substitute will with belief and you'd might as well be discussing religion. When you see 'but I ...' as a rebuttal, you're dealing with a convert. Cite a study that doesn't agree with the religion and it will be ignored. You can keep bumping the thread, but there isn't any actual discussion to be had.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Yawn. Another fat thread, the usual argument, the usual suspects. That pretty much proves that the thread had little to do with a person's ability to do a job and it was just a platform for beating a dead horse that should have already been reduced to sub-atomic particles.

@May90 You can't argue with people about their religion, the more so when that person sees themselves as successfully reformed. Notice the responses you've been getting. Substitute will with belief and you'd might as well be discussing religion. When you see 'but I ...' as a rebuttal, you're dealing with a convert. Cite a study that doesn't agree with the religion and it will be ignored. You can keep bumping the thread, but there isn't any actual discussion to be had.

Well, no. Not really reduced to anything. A minister of health should... be in good health.

[Jazzhands]

I've been on Prednisone before (twice in the last three months). It doesn't have that reaction in me. That would really suck, though.

I envy you lol. Both myself and my mother get ravenously hungry whenever we have to be on it, it's horrible.

[Allerius]

Well, no. Not really reduced to anything. A minister of health should... be in good health.

Nah, it's too hard to watch what you eat and use those muscles once in a while. We should just let everyone become obese without judgement. That surely wouldn't have any deleterious effects on society.

[tithian]

I find it hilarrious that the mojority of the US posters think that the Minister's job is to 'be a role model'. Kinda shows how much they know about how healthcare systems work. Is she doing a good job? For example:

1. Are the hospitals properly staffed?
2. Are medical materials freely available to patients?
3. Is she regulating medicine distribution (along with the relevant National Organization)
4. Is she keeping Intensive Care units and Emergency Respones teams in good operational shape?
5. Is she informing the public about disease prevention?
6. Is she providing vaccination to the people that need it?

If yes, then who gives a fuck about her weight. Bonus points if she's actually likeable and not in it just for the position/money.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I find it hilarrious that the mojority of the US posters think that the Minister's job is to 'be a role model'. Kinda shows how much they know about how healthcare systems work. Is she doing a good job? For example:

Those damned dirty Americans...

/s off