How to make leveling relevent?

[MisterSheep]

Shouldn't leveling be more fun?

New players would be more compelled to play and creating alts wouldn't feel like such a chore.

But to make leveling fun again, they'd need to make it take more time to reach level cap so there's a player stagnation at any level stage to create actual multiplayer interaction (Please LFD doesn't qualify as multiplayer in my book) and make leveling more challenging (harder quests/dungeons and forcing players to travel around the world to break the current linear questing style)

But then veteran players would complain because endgame content (where the ''real'' game is all at) takes more time to reach, and every extra minutes taken to level up a character is an additionnal wasted minute.

But how to make leveling relevent both for new players and veterans? I played Diablo 3 recently and while it might be one of the worst exemple for a leveling system, i feel like they took ONE step in the right direction. Legendary items you can can be dismantled to extract their unique property and be used later. It might not be much, but at least it made it feel like my character was actualy progressing and becoming more powerful.

Now can't they expand over that system? They could make universal currencies/armor, so time spent leveling doesn't feel like it is being wasted. Give more currencies in dungeons and get rid of LFD so veterans creating an alt will actively seek for players to group, which in turns make multiplayer more accessible for new players. Allow items to be dismantled for currencies. Give even more currencies when experiencing a low-level dungeon/raid for the first time, so leveling players would feel compelled to play ALL old content (you know, instead of letting all the old content take the dust, give players a reason to go back) Once reaching level cap players can buy gear or vanity items with said currency. It would justify increasing the amount of time it takes leveling.

Two birds one stone. Satisfy both new and veteran players by giving a fun, engaging and rewarding leveling experience.

[Vichan]

this forum really loves beating dead horses doesn't it?

[Deleted]

This topic has been discussed a lot already.

if you where seriously interested in it you would follow what blizzard is saying about it.

They are currently testing out ways if making the leveling process more of a thing.


There are some things you can take from diablo into wow.

Passives from items like that is definately not one of them. You do not get legendaries while leveling in wow because that would trivialize the leveling experience even more.

Its supposed to be a journey and one of the things they have in the making is scaling zones with your level.

So for example if you start leveling in redridge, then pop a dungeon, you wont be 5 levels above redridge when you get out of the dungeon and never finnish the questline in redridge.

[Kokolums]

What has happened is that impatient players that want to rush to end game ASAP complained long and hard about leveling because it is in the way of their goal. They successfully got all kinds of nerfs implemented to leveling such as HP boosts, increased damage, heirlooms all over the place, xp boosts, free level 90s, etc. As a result, leveling is utterly neglected.

They probably want to stop catering to those types of people.

[ComputerNerd]

Another ignorant suggestion to remove LFD, when that is not and has never been the problem.
Levelling is as relevant as the community makes it, and the community is so intentionally hellbent on getting through it as soon as possible.
Players will not "actively" seek groups manually if they can help it, and removing LFD is only going to isolate players even more, with a repeat of inflated requirements in LFG in levelling dungeons and players rarely venturing outside of their guilds for other players where possible.

[melodramocracy]

First step is to stop catering to your immediate gratification portion of this playerbase on the issue, as that's most of why so much of the game is a joke now.

[primalmatter]

I actually think the reverse would be better...

Make the leveling experience last about four hours with a quest line tailor made for each class. During it you have to correctly use your spell then as you level your cc and rotations.

This gets people to the mmo part of the game faster and teaches them there class. Just let the old questing system to optional.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Personally, I would love to have a separate queue for leveling dungeons so I could be matched with other players actually wanting to explore and appreciate that instance. Most players want to speed race through; many say the whole leveling process is a necessary evil, and unpleasant chore to finish as quickly as possible. I have no gripes with those people; they should enjoy the game the way that's fun for them. But I know I’m not the only one who sees leveling alts as an enjoyable alternative to having every toon doing the exact same content at max level. I enjoy going back every now and then and running old instances, maybe seeing them through the eyes of a new race or class… At least it’s not the same dungeons I’m already running every day on all my other toons.

I do know there’s a custom group finder and perhaps this could serve, but I doubt many players even look at that while they’re still leveling. So maybe what I want is to start a new trend rather than needing a new tool. Still, what I have in mind that I think might get more use would be an additional checkbox in the LFD that says “I want to slow it down, do the quests, etc.” Might be only 10-15% would check that box, but that would be enough to get some groups together.

[Gilgameshh]

First step is to stop catering to your immediate gratification portion of this playerbase on the issue, as that's most of why so much of the game is a joke now.

I agree with this as a whole, but I don't think it applies to leveling. My enjoyment of WoD leveling was a far, far cry from the enjoyment I had in vanilla, but it was definitely my favorite leveling experience out of every expansion thus far.

I think most of the problem with immediate gratification comes from end-game content. The issues I have with leveling are so minor that I could care less what the hell Blizzard does with leveling so long as I enjoy the end-game.

[MisterSheep]

I do get all the hate toward leveling though. It became so boring and such a chore in the past few years that everyone started to grow harsh feelings towards it. Also, for most players who are done fooling around, if it doesn't help them progress toward their goal, it is a waste of time. So yeah leveling has been made a joke because of those kind of players.

But hell. I'm sure 100% of WoW community enjoyed leveling at some point. Who the hell would keep on playing a game they've found boring to play for the first weeks/months otherwise.

But yeah i'm looking forward for scaling zones. I do hope at some point they'll scale more contents like old dungeons and old raids so players have a reasons to revisit them. Sure, recycled content might give shivers down the spine of some players, but just think of the sheer amount of content taking the dust in WoW, and we only get to play the most recent of it.

[Deleted]

LFD was great feature for leveling. When it came out near end of WoTLK, leveling has already been gutted: player power was already too much, heirlooms appeared, XP nerfed and Blizzard has already adopted "only last patch matters" philosophy. It was near impossible to find people to do leveling dungeons with.

But because of implementation of group finder I think LFD can go. Group finder could be used to find people for leveling dungeons.

Few ideas to help with leveling:

1. Undo removal of old raids: ZG20, level 70 ZA, AQ and Naxx. Implement timewalking system for old raids and instances. Unlike timewalking event, make this timewalking available at any time, but with some kind of set of rules that make it possible to run those raids only if there are enough leveling players are present, such as 50% of raid should be in instance level + 20 range. Reward gear should also scale only up to instance level + 20. Quest rewards from those instances should also scale. Rather large leveling range would increase player pool for those instances, scaling gear should be incentive to run those instances.

2. Undo profession catch up mechanics. Give players reasons to visit old content. That would make it hard for players without gathering professions, but idea #3 should help with that.

3. Redo gathering professions. Group mining, herbalism and fishing into gathering professions group instead of primary/secondary professions. Allow players to learn them all. But here is the catch: allow only 1 profession to be used at time. Create 3 types of bags: mining bag, herbalism bag, fish bag. It should fit into special gathering bag slot. There is only 1 slot on character (and multiple slots in bank for storage). Fishing pole, mining pick should be automatically placed in appropriate bags. Make it so player could only gather items into that gathering bag. Which means at any specific time player can use only one of gathering professions. To use different professions player must visit bank to swap gathering bags. Increase yield for characters with level up to level appropriate for zone + 20. Give players small (12 slot should do) gathering bags for free when they learn any of gathering professions. Combined with removal of profession catch up mechanics this should encourage players to visit old world and encourage players to gather goods while leveling.

4. Change heirlooms from powerful items to usable XP bonuses, similar to enchants. Players that want to level faster can apply it to their gear.

5. The obvious one: retune leveling and character power. Its not fun to play in god mode, which is one of reasons players want to skip leveling. Leveling is so dull at the moment because there is no challenge and it requires no brain activity. Cataclysm quest design also contributed to that - linear single player leveling with phasing, excessive hand holding, but that cannot be undone.

6. Undo enchants/gems scaling mechanics. These mechanics only encourage players to not visit old content, which was a terrible idea. Players should not be able to use high level enchants. If they want to enchant their gear, they should get old enchants. This would encourage players to run old instances for enchanting materials and hunt old recipes.

7. In group finder add leveling instances section. When creating groups player should be able to select multiple instances for group. When joining group if there are multiple instances available, player can select which instances he wants to join. Then reduce set of instances in group listing by whatever all players in group who joined via group finder have in common. Do not teleport players to instance! Do not phase players into other player's realm unless they are in same zone as group leader to prevent realm hoppers from joining groups (it should be done for max level too because realm hopping got out of hand).

8. Increase auction house deposit for green and blue quality gear to max(old deposit, buyout price / 5) and require sellers to specify buyout price. That would prevent auction house resellers from jacking up prices on leveling gear. Unlike other items, gear is completely random and cannot be farmed. Current system allows players to monopolize leveling gear market, making it impossible for new players to buy gear. Increasing deposit would make it unattractive to put unreasonably high prices on gear. Its a win for everyone, except for AH players. Idea #4 would increase demand for leveling gear, this idea would increase supply at reasonable prices.

9. Make all leveling gear scale for several levels: required item level (for timewalking gear its level gear was obtained at) + 5. There are too many levels in game, changing gear every few levels make gear disposable and unmemorable. This idea would make gear last a bit longer, encouraging players to get better items from dungeons/raids.

10. Reduce XP gain by a lot. Those who want to level faster can still use heirloom XP bonus.

[Jellospally]

No leveling is a chore. It is a waste of time. Making it fun wouldn't matter because raiding is fun.

I'd rather have a expac we don't level and have to do X shit that benefits us at max level. Tbh legion should have been that with artifacts and focus on getting that to whatever stage before we were considered ready to dungeon > raid.

Leveling from midnight to 7-9am depending on length of leveling in a given expac is so fun...

Idk I just never cared for leveling even back in BC I just want to be max level and run dungeons and raid.

[Cæli]

As long as there is a feel of progression ie gathering things on an alt, feeling that you empower your main by collecting stuff, gold, missed items I think this automtically makes the process of leveling relevant.

Also I think feeling powerful while leveling is a good thing, either with or without the help of high level char to get buffs, but this gets nullified by heirlooms so if a dev is reading this, hi pls think about it.
I would also love to be able to play old heroic and raids during leveling, as a way of leveling. You get good gear, xp, loot, treasures, achi, mount possibly. There should be additional and EXCLUSIVE rewards to make it relevant (like buffed mount drop chance when in a raid of 20 players, new rewards, ...)

I mean just make some of the fun high level (non competitive) content available at non max level and actually encouraged. There's a design problem here. They ignore non max level while it's 80% of the game content.

[Ragingheadache]

"Satisfy both new and veteran players by giving a fun, engaging and rewarding leveling experience." is what every pve MMO has tried to achieve over the years, along with a "fun, engaging and rewarding end-game experience" as well.

Unfortunately for most MMOs, that aspiration ends up getting translated into "Kill x of y" and "Run x content y times for z drop".

Can't see that changing any time soon.

[Deleted]

[SNIP] So for example if you start leveling in redridge, then pop a dungeon, you wont be 5 levels above redridge when you get out of the dungeon and never finnish the questline in redridge.

Or what about just staying in Redridge to finish the questline if it is that important to you? Honestly, some people here need their hand held at every occasion...

[procne]

I would love some optional "hardcore" mode where mobs have more health and deal more damage, to add some challenge. And so that going out of your way to get a good gear would still be worth it.

[owbu]

1. create a free "ding 100 button", so that people, who dont actually like leveling do not have to level
2. remove everything that gives permanent xp boosts or insane stat boosts, so that you can actually balance leveling
3. balance leveling: combat times should be like 5-10 seconds instead of 2 and zones shouldnt be outlevelable by completing half of their quests or entering 1 dungeon...maybe add a scaling system light, were each zone keeps their minimum level, but can scale up by like 5 levels.

[Sencha]

What has happened is that impatient players that want to rush to end game ASAP complained long and hard about leveling because it is in the way of their goal. They successfully got all kinds of nerfs implemented to leveling such as HP boosts, increased damage, heirlooms all over the place, xp boosts, free level 90s, etc. As a result, leveling is utterly neglected.

They probably want to stop catering to those types of people.

So much this.

I don't understand why Blizzard is catering to those people who wants everything without effort (=oversimplifying the game) and then those people will complain that there is no content.

[MisterSheep]

Even if Blizzard would decide to give us back a more ''classic'' leveling system, i don't think it should be an option. If it happens, all players must be affected by the change, otherwise it's bound to fail. If people have access to a shortcut to level cap, they WILL use it. ESPECIALLY if there is no rewards in doing it the long way. The reason why WoW stands out of the crowd as a mmorpg is because of how MASSIVE it is. Lots of players, a huge world, and lots of content (although most of it is shelved). Yet, when new players log into the game, they are faced with a long solo grind until level cap, and then they have LFG/LFR, which still kinda feels like solo-content.

It might seem like a scary decision, but shifting a portion of the playerbase back into lower level content would be a win-win decision for most of the playerbase, even if it means forcing them through scaling content, rebirth system, or rewards for leveling alts.

New players would play in a world filled with fellow adventurers to play alongside with. (Much like all of us who started playing in Vanilla, TBC or early WotLK did) Which in turn should increase the subscription rate.

Altoholics would still have as much fun playing, maybe even more if they become able to run more relevent content and play with/help other players in a more prominent way.

Most hardcore players probably stick with their current characters, so they'd be affected the least by such changes.

Only the most elitist might be affected, those that create specific characters just to fulfill the specific needs of their guilds. But those are only a minority.

[zcrooked]

Honestly there is a few things they removed from the game that was actually fun to do.

I'm really disapointed about the game since they removed elites from current world content. The big chain quest you could complete got all removed with the cata quest's revamp. The dungeons that were long and painful got seperated into smaller ones. Key's requirement for some dungeon's got also removed. The talent tree system was also nice because you could be a bit more unique. Item's that were epic had more sense before they became too easy to obtain. Value of gold and the trading. There were no smart addons for auction house like TSM. I could go on...

And now that everything is so easy to achieve, we love the game but don't know what to do of our life, so we play alt's. How about you go play another game and spend time doing anything else that could benifit you instead of spending more of your time in a video game that is meant to make money and benifit succes to the creators ?

Just sayin' stop alienating urself any more.