Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[sabe]

I see someone that has not really been paying close attention to this thread and the stuff surrounding Legacy realms. They basically said in the interview that it isn't as simple as copy/paste so can we drop that weak argument already?

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So, i salute the Nostalrius coders for being way better than Blizz workers.

[Kyanion]

So, i salute the Nostalrius coders for being way better than Blizz workers.

Yeah for working on an emulator....which isn't what Blizzard uses. I love how clueless people are about this part of the discussion. Nost/Kern/Blizzard all acknowledged it is not a small undertaking to make Legacy happen.

[Doomchicken]

So, i salute the Nostalrius coders for being way better than Blizz workers.

Took nost 4 years according to their own website. But hey, I'm sure Blizzard could cough one out over the weekend right? /s

[Kyanion]

Took nost 4 years according to their own website. But hey, I'm sure Blizzard could cough one out over the weekend right? /s

Why are you replying to me with that sarcasm? I know it took Nost a long time to make that emulator happen. And I also know Blizzard couldn't cough one out in any short amount of time. This is a big undertaking if Legacy was to ever happen. I don't think it is worth it, but that is just my view on it. I still think you are misquoting me or something though.

[sabe]

Yeah for working on an emulator....which isn't what Blizzard uses. I love how clueless people are about this part of the discussion. Nost/Kern/Blizzard all acknowledged it is not a small undertaking to make Legacy happen.

You still do not get the point. I and many others already paid the cost of Vanilla server. It is them who deleted stuff. Keeping back ups isn't a hard thing.
Nost is an emulator, it does the job, right?

[Pann]

qed. Why read what I write, eh? 6.1 did NOT fix it for all.

What an odd argument. Blizzard said that it was fixed with 6.1 and not only did the complaints stop but many who were affected wrote in the complaint threads that it had been fixed. Whilst your argument could be correct that it was not fixed for everyone, and without polling everyone who was playing WoW at the time to find out if they were affected and if so has the problem been rectified there is no way to know, the solution was to merge the archaeology database entries from before the problem arose and after it was fixed the likelihood of a few players being missed and then saying nothing is really rather slim.

[Kyanion]

You still do not get the point. I and many others already paid the cost of Vanilla server. It is them who deleted stuff. Keeping back ups isn't a hard thing.
Nost is an emulator, it does the job, right?

And your argument is old and tired and been used many times over the past 1,430 pages. I paid the cost of Vanilla as well, but unlike you I realize they didn't delete things and the game evolved over the years. Apparently they didn't keep perfect backups and even if they did they'd have to update the code for 10-12 years of advancements, Bnet and so on.

Nost being an emulator does the job for private servers. Do not pretend that reverse engineered stuff is the same thing as Vanilla and would just be a plug and play and would work fine.

[Deleted]

They can easily hire the Nost people to run a few servers with their emulator and to keep bug-fixing it. They just refuse to do it because of their "standard of quality", whatever that means or if that's even true, and so they cockblock everyone, including themselves. That would be the fastest, least painful and most profitable course of action. Yes, there are going to be some bugs, but since the Nost people are hired they can work full-time on bug squishing. It's not like there aren't any bugs on retail servers. They could support 10 THOUSAND people at once, 5 times more than official servers at the time. They'll have multiple servers running though. Nobody would notice a few differences between "real" vanilla and those servers, it's almost impossible to remember everything from 12 years ago.

[Kyanion]

They can easily hire the Nost people to run a few servers with their emulator and to keep bug-fixing it. They just refuse to do it because of their "standard of quality", whatever that means or if that's even true, and so they cockblock everyone, including themselves. That would be the fastest, least painful and most profitable course of action. Yes, there are going to be some bugs, but since the Nost people are hired they can work full-time on bug squishing. It's not like there aren't any bugs on retail servers. They could support 10 THOUSAND people at once, 5 times more than official servers at the time. They'll have multiple servers running though. Nobody would notice a few differences between "real" vanilla and those servers, it's almost impossible to remember everything from 12 years ago.

You just need to get over the Nost people being involved in running or hosting this in any capacity. If it was ever going to happen it would be Blizzard doing it. It is their game and if they don't want to do it themselves they don't have to let anyone else do it either.

You claim it is the 'most profitable' course of action, you should run to Blizzard with all of this data you collected and prove it to them *eyeroll*. You don't know how many people would play Legacy nor do you know how long they'd stick around for.

[Deleted]

You just need to get over the Nost people being involved in running or hosting this in any capacity. If it was ever going to happen it would be Blizzard doing it. It is their game and if they don't want to do it themselves they don't have to let anyone else do it either.

You claim it is the 'most profitable' course of action, you should run to Blizzard with all of this data you collected and prove it to them *eyeroll*. You don't know how many people would play Legacy nor do you know how long they'd stick around for.

They wouldn't be "Nost people" if they hired them, duh. It's the most profitable concerning Legacy servers, because they would need to do minimal amounts of work and minimal financial investment, that's obvious. How many people would be playing and would stick around is irrelevant in this context, that's a problem with Legacy servers in general.

[Kyanion]

They wouldn't be "Nost people" if they hired them, duh. It's the most profitable concerning Legacy servers, because they would need to do minimal amounts of work and minimal financial investment, that's obvious. How many people would be playing and would stick around is irrelevant in this context, that's a problem with Legacy servers in general.

Duh they aren't going to hire them, get over it. It would set a fucking terrible precedent for just hiring people hosting a PS that says to the next guys doing it "Hey if you make a PS good enough Blizz will pay you to work for them!" And that does not even cover the fact that I highly doubt these Nost people could even do the coding Blizzard would require. Keep in mind they are working with an EMULATOR and took MULTIPLE years to even get to what they did have.

You claim minimal financial investment and I call bullshit. Hell that whole part of the Nost team being involved should be dropped, if you read anything from the meetings from Nost and Blizz you could see that isn't happening.

[Deleted]

Duh they aren't going to hire them, get over it. It would set a fucking terrible precedent for just hiring people hosting a PS that says to the next guys doing it "Hey if you make a PS good enough Blizz will pay you to work for them!" And that does not even cover the fact that I highly doubt these Nost people could even do the coding Blizzard would require. Keep in mind they are working with an EMULATOR and took MULTIPLE years to even get to what they did have.

You claim minimal financial investment and I call bullshit. Hell that whole part of the Nost team being involved should be dropped, if you read anything from the meetings from Nost and Blizz you could see that isn't happening.

You mean a terrible precedent like Valve hiring the guy who made DOTA? Yeah, sure, why not? If they are talented enough to do it, why wouldn't they hire them? Neither creating a new genre nor making a good server is easy and that's the point. In 12 years only one team managed to make a server this good and stable. It's minimal financial investment CONCERNING LEGACY SERVERS, because the work is already done, that's obvious. Yes, they are working with an emulator and would continue to do so.

[Erwarth]

You mean a terrible precedent like Valve hiring the guy who made DOTA? Yeah, sure, why not? If they are talented enough to do it, why wouldn't they hire them? Neither creating a new genre nor making a good server is easy and that's the point. In 12 years only one team managed to make a server this good and stable. It's minimal financial investment CONCERNING LEGACY SERVERS, because the work is already done, that's obvious. Yes, they are working with an emulator and would continue to do so.

DOTA wasn't illegal. And if they set up a Legacy Server, it won't be with an emulator, it need to be integrated with the battle.net client and in the Blizzard infrastracture. It's more complex than what you said. But reading 1430 pages is hard. It's simplier to circlejerk

[Kyanion]

You mean a terrible precedent like Valve hiring the guy who made DOTA? Yeah, sure, why not? If they are talented enough to do it, why wouldn't they hire them? Neither creating a new genre nor making a good server is easy and that's the point. In 12 years only one team managed to make a server this good and stable. It's minimal financial investment CONCERNING LEGACY SERVERS, because the work is already done, that's obvious. Yes, they are working with an emulator and would continue to do so.

Just because Valve did that does not mean it is the right move for Blizzard. You think it ALWAYS works? And can Nost even do the coding Blizzard would need? Blizzard are not using Emulators it would require totally different skillsets. Blizzard isn't going to use a freaking emulator so everything Nost did is irrelevant. Holy hell.

Keep arguing it if you want, it is getting boring. Go back near the start of this thread and read all the debates about hiring Nost and then go and look at the recent Nost meeting and see what Nost says and then see what Blizz said at the Kotaku meeting. Once you understand that using an emulator is off the table we can discuss the topic some more.

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DOTA wasn't illegal. And if they set up a Legacy Server, it won't be with an emulator, it need to be integrated with the battle.net client and in the Blizzard infrastracture. It's more complex than what you said. But reading 1430 pages is hard. It's simplier to circlejerk

No kidding. Always someone that dashes into this thread, jerks about with a "Derp just hire Nost!" comment and dashes off. As if what Nost did on an emulator freaking matters.

[Deleted]

There is no "need" to integrate it into Battle.net nor make it part of the infrastructure, that's just extra layers of shit nobody truly cares about except Blizzard. It would simply be a different .exe, like it's on private servers. Blizzard "not using an emulator" is shooting themselves in the foot, because they are running away from profit and success, at least for a little while. Not only would it be the better PR move it would be the better everything. The Nost discussion is pretty much the ONLY relevant topic surrounding this game, don't fool yourselves. Hosting private servers isn't illegal in Europe.

[Kyanion]

There is no "need" to integrate it into Battle.net nor make it part of the infrastructure, that's just extra layers of shit nobody truly cares about except Blizzard. It would simply be a different .exe, like it's on private servers. Blizzard "not using an emulator" is shooting themselves in the foot, because they are running away from profit and success, at least for a little while. Not only would it be the better PR move it would be the better everything. The Nost discussion is pretty much the ONLY relevant topic surrounding this game, don't fool yourselves. Hosting private servers isn't illegal in Europe.

Blizzard's games means Blizzard's rules. If they want it to integrate into Bnet that is their choice. I think Bnet is a great thing as I'm able to talk with my friends over multiple Blizz games. I don't see any reason why Blizzard would just ignore Bnet for Legacy.

I think if Blizzard wants to 'run away from profit and success' they can choose to do that as well. This is of course assuming there is profit and success down the path of Legacy and that is your assumption not mine. You think you know better than a multi-billion dollar company? Not saying every move they make is a great one but they have a better chance of doing or not doing something than JoeRandom on a forum.

[Relapses]

There is no "need" to integrate it into Battle.net nor make it part of the infrastructure, that's just extra layers of shit nobody truly cares about except Blizzard. It would simply be a different .exe, like it's on private servers. Blizzard "not using an emulator" is shooting themselves in the foot, because they are running away from profit and success, at least for a little while. Not only would it be the better PR move it would be the better everything. The Nost discussion is pretty much the ONLY relevant topic surrounding this game, don't fool yourselves. Hosting private servers isn't illegal in Europe.

You're speaking as if you work for Blizzard. You don't. I don't. Nobody on this forum does. To sit here and pretend like you know what's in the best interest of a multi-billion dollar a year company is utterly ridiculous.

The very thing you're suggesting was even mentioned in the official response from J. Allen Brack back in April:

And while we’ve looked into the possibility – there is not a clear legal path to protect Blizzard’s IP and grant an operating license to a pirate server.

The legal department at Blizzard has looked into it and found there's no legal path for them to operate in this manner. They will not happen like this no matter how much you pretend like you're the chairman of Blizzard's PR team and dictate what they should or should not do.

Finally, the bit about private realms not being illegal in Europe is laughably false. Nost servers were hosted in France when the C&D for their shut down was issued. Last I checked, that's part of Europe.

[Kyanion]

snip

Damn do I need a picture of a mic drop there?

[Tackhisis]

There is no "need" to integrate it into Battle.net nor make it part of the infrastructure

And how are you gonna do authentication and billing? Both client and server have to be adapted for Battle.net accounts and authenticators.

[Deleted]

You're speaking as if you work for Blizzard. You don't. I don't. Nobody on this forum does. To sit here and pretend like you know what's in the best interest of a multi-billion dollar a year company is utterly ridiculous.

The very thing you're suggesting was even mentioned in the official response from J. Allen Brack back in April:

And while we’ve looked into the possibility – there is not a clear legal path to protect Blizzard’s IP and grant an operating license to a pirate server.

The legal department at Blizzard has looked into it and found there's no legal path for them to operate in this manner. They will not happen like this no matter how much you pretend like you're the chairman of Blizzard's PR team and dictate what they should or should not do.

Finally, the bit about private realms not being illegal in Europe is laughably false. Nost servers were hosted in France when the C&D for their shut down was issued. Last I checked, that's part of Europe.

How am I speaking "as if I'm working for Blizzard"? That quote concerns operating a pirate server which isn't part of their own team, when you *own* the "pirate server" it's not a pirate server anymore. It is not illegal in Europe. That's why people host those in Europe. What happened with the C&D is a fringe case because Blizzard have voracious lawyers. There may also be lying about not finding a legal path for a pirate server.

And how are you gonna do authentication and billing? Both client and server have to be adapted for Battle.net accounts and authenticators.

Like every other MMO in existence? Like WoW was before the new Battle.net?