Page 3 of 13 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
... LastLast
  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by cakebeef View Post
    Is there some way we can voice our concerns to blizzard. Feels like we can't reach em. If we show that allot of people feel the same way they can't ignore us.
    Honestly, and I'm a cynic, I think it's too late. The voice work is done, the quests are done, the class halls are mostly done. It's pretty much moot if you ask me. The best we can hope for is that a lot of people complain once it's live after Legion's launch, and they make changes to whatever ongoing class content they have played for 7.x.

  2. #42
    Yeah you are right. A little to late now. But it feels like we have been complaining about the problems from the start of alpha but no response from blizzard. What's the point in having a alpha if you don't listen to the player critic.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by cakebeef View Post
    Yeah you are right. A little to late now. But it feels like we have been complaining about the problems from the start of alpha but no response from blizzard. What's the point in having a alpha if you don't listen to the player critic.
    Finding bugs, exploits, and errors that don't occur in-house. Also stress tests on servers and instancing/phasing tech.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by cakebeef View Post
    Is there some way we can voice our concerns to blizzard. Feels like we can't reach em. If we show that allot of people feel the same way they can't ignore us.
    There were many people voicing their concerns about this on the alpha forums from the get go.

    Blizzards response was to expand upon what people complained about and get rid of things people were ok with (like having followers who werent vrykul)
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  5. #45
    Seems the big finale for the Warrior questhall is gathering your Vrykul on a grand mission to... save Hodir...

    http://legion.wowhead.com/quest=42974/the-fate-of-hodir

    How... epic?
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  6. #46
    Yup, because like I've been saying since the beginning, this isn't Warrior lore; it's all Vrykul, all the time. Even our most generic follower is a random Iron Dwarf - they couldn't even give us one recognizable Warrior.

  7. #47
    Wow. You're still on this?

    This horse was beaten to fertilizer, used to grow more grass, which was eaten by another horse, which you then beat to death.

    Anyway, I like it. I've given my reasons why, sorry you don't, but hey, maybe you can go paladin this expansion and pretend you're a warrior in Light's Hope?

    I like the theme, I like the way they are creating the story and how they have created a neutral group that takes our very humble class that everyone can be and gives it divine connections through the act of conquest and defense of home.

    Anyway, enjoy being miserable about the whole thing. I'll be having fun carving a valknut in my blades of the valajar.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    Wow. You're still on this?

    This horse was beaten to fertilizer, used to grow more grass, which was eaten by another horse, which you then beat to death.

    Anyway, I like it. I've given my reasons why, sorry you don't, but hey, maybe you can go paladin this expansion and pretend you're a warrior in Light's Hope?

    I like the theme, I like the way they are creating the story and how they have created a neutral group that takes our very humble class that everyone can be and gives it divine connections through the act of conquest and defense of home.

    Anyway, enjoy being miserable about the whole thing. I'll be having fun carving a valknut in my blades of the valajar.
    I've yet to see one good reason as to how or why it connects to Warriors in any way. The only, and tenuous, connection is that it plays to a trope that doesn't even exist in WoW. Hell the Valarjar aren't even Warriors! Odyn literally takes anyone he can, regardless of class or ability, and puts their soul into a new body.

    Not to mention the background lore is a joke. Seriously, it's tantamount to slavery; the only reason it exists is because Odyn couldn't get along with the other Keepers (who now apparently empowered the Dragons rather than the Titans themselves doing it), and wanted to make his own army, so he co-opted his own daughter, against her will, to do so forcibly when the Vrykul refused. Is it any wonder she rebelled? The lore is a freaking mess, and still has nothing to do with Warriors. You don't think they could have created a "neutral group" (aren't they all?), even with the Vrykul by including at least one already established Warrior from the game?

    Also, and I feel this is important, it's my thread. I can bitch if I want to, as it is very much on topic.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    I've yet to see one good reason as to how or why it connects to Warriors in any way. The only, and tenuous, connection is that it plays to a trope that doesn't even exist in WoW. Hell the Valarjar aren't even Warriors! Odyn literally takes anyone he can, regardless of class or ability, and puts their soul into a new body.

    Not to mention the background lore is a joke. Seriously, it's tantamount to slavery; the only reason it exists is because Odyn couldn't get along with the other Keepers (who now apparently empowered the Dragons rather than the Titans themselves doing it), and wanted to make his own army, so he co-opted his own daughter, against her will, to do so forcibly when the Vrykul refused. Is it any wonder she rebelled? The lore is a freaking mess, and still has nothing to do with Warriors. You don't think they could have created a "neutral group" (aren't they all?), even with the Vrykul by including at least one already established Warrior from the game?

    Also, and I feel this is important, it's my thread. I can bitch if I want to, as it is very much on topic.
    Never said they couldn't create a different group, although any other groups wouldn't really work from the context of WC2 and WC3 since there would have been evidence of running into say a group of leftover Night Elves at Black Rook Hold that were watching over the Tomb of Sargeras - which again would make sense for a group of warriors for us to join.

    Instead they created a new set of lore that ties directly into the lore already existing from WotLK where you have Arthas basically perverting a Vrykul tradition in order to gain what very well could be the physically strongest humanoid race as willing participants in the Scourge.

    Yes Odyn takes everyone he can, well not everyone, but the bravest. After all in the halls of valhalla a hungry wolf waits.

    So yeah. Not really seeing the problem and yeah, it's slavery but if you think being chosen is all rainbows and cake-pops you should read the old testament sometime.

    And go ahead, bitch all day long. I really don't care. You can whine like a toddler who has to leave their favorite toy at home. You can scream and curse and rail against the gods that have forsaken you through the great travesty of a video game not changing to match your own particular ideals.

    But I can come in here and remind you that some people disagree.

    Anyway, feel free to keep licking your wounds over something you knew wasn't going to be changed even when it was released in alpha.

    You can either get over it or just have a pity party throughout the expansion. Doesn't much matter to me. :-)

  10. #50
    Dreadlord Bethrezen's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    On the fields of eternal battle.
    Posts
    969
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    Never said they couldn't create a different group, although any other groups wouldn't really work from the context of WC2 and WC3 since there would have been evidence of running into say a group of leftover Night Elves at Black Rook Hold that were watching over the Tomb of Sargeras - which again would make sense for a group of warriors for us to join.

    Instead they created a new set of lore that ties directly into the lore already existing from WotLK where you have Arthas basically perverting a Vrykul tradition in order to gain what very well could be the physically strongest humanoid race as willing participants in the Scourge.

    Yes Odyn takes everyone he can, well not everyone, but the bravest. After all in the halls of valhalla a hungry wolf waits.

    So yeah. Not really seeing the problem and yeah, it's slavery but if you think being chosen is all rainbows and cake-pops you should read the old testament sometime.

    And go ahead, bitch all day long. I really don't care. You can whine like a toddler who has to leave their favorite toy at home. You can scream and curse and rail against the gods that have forsaken you through the great travesty of a video game not changing to match your own particular ideals.

    But I can come in here and remind you that some people disagree.

    Anyway, feel free to keep licking your wounds over something you knew wasn't going to be changed even when it was released in alpha.

    You can either get over it or just have a pity party throughout the expansion. Doesn't much matter to me. :-)
    Your berating posts sure speaks the contrary against your 'not caring'

    Our class is the only class of all the order hall quest chains where we have zero point connection to the 'lore' of the 'story' itself. That's the plain truth. You don't even give a valid reason why you 'like' it. Blizzard has thrown it as an afterthought.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    and how they have created a neutral group that takes our very humble class that everyone can be and gives it divine connections through the act of conquest and defense of home.
    I'm quoting this part specifically because this is inaccurate. It's not taking our class (despite how many player Warriors you will see there) but our individual character. It didn't matter that we were a Warrior class, the individual of (whatever the character at the time is named) is picked up for participating. Circumstance (aka, Blizzard devs) dictates that only Warrior class players will do this, but the plot (named npcs and demon, Odyn stating he doesn't have enough power due to the curse to bring people willingly, so he is using the player in question as a medium) conveys only 1 player reaches Odyn's Halls.

    I, myself, am not concerned with the whole Valhalla part, but more on the fact that any other Warrior player we meet there is a direct contradiction to our character's presence, what Odyn asks of us and furthermore our role as a Warrior (it'd be more like we are no longer Warriors, but the hero class Champion, under the service Odyn and there can only be one in his current state).

    If you feel this topic has been worn to the bone, then perhaps it would be in your best interest to stop discussing it with others? I think it hasn't been beaten enough until we are catapulting said animal at the walls of whatever Ignorance Castle Blizzard has managed to retcon into existence like a cow from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

  12. #52
    its very nice~~~~~

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    Never said they couldn't create a different group, although any other groups wouldn't really work from the context of WC2 and WC3 since there would have been evidence of running into say a group of leftover Night Elves at Black Rook Hold that were watching over the Tomb of Sargeras - which again would make sense for a group of warriors for us to join.
    You know there were no Vrykul in WC2 or WC3, but they manage to fit in just fine. Regardless;

    It works perfectly fine for Hunters, who apparently have an elite order hanging out in Highmountain, and Rogues, who created an entirely new conclave in secret (despite their intended champion being your actual follower at the time and at least one of them being dead by cannon), and Paladins, who managed to create an entire subsect under your nose that literally every named Paladin in the game knew of before their new leader.

    Again, and as I've said numerous times, the problem isn't tying in Vrykul; the problem is in making the lore overwhelmingly about Vrykul. There's nothing that has to do with Warriors specifically, or even generically about Warriors pre-Legion, which every other class hall manages to do. Even the Demon Hunters manage to do it, and it's an entirely new class!

    • The story isn't exclusive - it's a major part of Legion's storyline for all players in Stormheim, and the class hall really doesn't build on it all; and there's not even any modicum of special text for Warriors. They're treated as strangers despite having already been to the HoV and been judged by Odyn, which is a complete narrative failure.
    • The area isn't exclusive - it's a dungeon open to all players. Again, Warriors are treated as strangers, despite having already been there and been judged worthy; again a complete narrative failure.
    • The association isn't exclusive - it's a reputation available to all players, for no real good reason other than the first one; it's a major part of Legion's storyline for all players.

    And here's the major point - the story doesn't apply to all Warriors. According to the narrative, it applies to one Warrior - the player. This is the biggest deviation from every other class hall, as they are specifically meant to be places which bring the class together to face the Legion. The Warrior Hall doesn't, because it's not a Warrior Hall - it's a Vrykul one.


    So yeah. Not really seeing the problem and yeah, it's slavery but if you think being chosen is all rainbows and cake-pops you should read the old testament sometime.
    You missed the point in that it's not exactly something you should strive for, brag about, or even necessarily champion. Old testament is all sorts of fucked up, why do you think its largely replaced and not talked about anymore? Hell every religion is fucked up for that matter, including the Norse religion! but newsflash - unlike the Vrykul who worship Odyn & co, Warriors of pre-existing Warcraft don't.

    And go ahead, bitch all day long. I really don't care. You can whine like a toddler who has to leave their favorite toy at home. You can scream and curse and rail against the gods that have forsaken you through the great travesty of a video game not changing to match your own particular ideals.
    Little churlish considering you're doing the exact same thing. You came into my thread, with full knowledge of its topic and are bitching about other people bitching. Hypocrisy is thy name.

    Anyway, feel free to keep licking your wounds over something you knew wasn't going to be changed even when it was released in alpha.
    I know that 60 MPH highway speed limits aren't going to be raised either, but it doesn't stop me from talking about how dumb it is. I'm sorry your idea of feedback only consists of things you think can actually be changed... wait I haven't actually seen any feedback from you throughout this entire testing phase... hmm.

  14. #54
    Deleted
    I love the warrior class hall, and love the odyn /vrykul thing perhaps it is because I'm Scandinavian - who knows ?

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by xzeve View Post
    I love the warrior class hall, and love the odyn /vrykul thing perhaps it is because I'm Scandinavian - who knows ?
    See, that's the problem.

    It's really easy to like it due to association. Most people will like it because it feels like Marvel, it feels like Vikings, it feels like Valhalla, and so on. It's easy to make a connection to some outside (ie: not Blizzard) fantasy, and blend the concepts together. It's not exactly a new concept, writers have been doing it forever, and hell religions have been doing it since the beginning of time to make it easier to convert others (aka Religious Assimilation). A lot of people don't read into it, and it's not because they're simple - they're just easily taken in by the familiar.

    But taking it at face value, solely off the concepts presented by the game itself, and it falls apart completely. Sure, you can still like it, and I'm not going to tell you that you shouldn't, but it makes absolutely no sense when the narrative contradicts itself at every turn.

    FWIW, I have nothing against Vrykul or Odyn/Watchers. I absolutely love Norse religion and I've studied it since I was a kid. I loved their introduction during Wrath and greatly enjoyed exploring their lore. However, that's not the issue. The issue is in trying to apply it to Warriors when absolutely no connection exists. As I've said before, they could have easily integrated the two - give us Alliance/Horde Warriors and Vrykul/Valarjar champions; throw the Watchers in there too, but what we're given isn't Warrior Class lore. It only applies to one Warrior, and explicitly excludes the rest of the class entirely.

  16. #56
    well at least no warrior can complain that they arent a special snowflake in legion, cause they ARE the only one there ... not like the 748 paladins with ashbringer kneeling in one place rpg-ing like theres no tomorrow xD

    on a more serious note: i agree with archi ... its not about the setting (alltho it could have been done less obvious and generic) but about the integration ...
    it would be the same as if they gave mages a straw-hut besides a river and told them that this is THE ultimate mage-place and no other mage can go there (alltho every homeless guys around stormwind uses the place to release themselfes xD).

    it just feels like:
    dev1: "ok all class halls are done"
    dev2: "oh, we forgot warriors"
    dev1: "oh shit, what are we going to do, lets think"
    intern: "vikings are cewl!"
    dev1: "yeah, true ... lets reuse a dungeon that everyone can do ... and a hall leader that everyone can beat up ... and lore that doesnt fit them"
    dev2: "doesnt matter ... its vikings dude!!!"

  17. #57
    My main trope is that Odyn feels like the bad guy, and for some reason we join up with him to help him in his cause. Has anyone figured out why we're helping him, rather than just ignoring him? He can't get out of his castle either way, so if we would have just ignored him there would have been zero repercussions.
    My Stream
    NollTvåTre Looking for Raiders

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Warriorsarri View Post
    My main trope is that Odyn feels like the bad guy, and for some reason we join up with him to help him in his cause. Has anyone figured out why we're helping him, rather than just ignoring him? He can't get out of his castle either way, so if we would have just ignored him there would have been zero repercussions.
    "Thanks for the swords. Later dickhead!" /hearth

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Warriorsarri View Post
    My main trope is that Odyn feels like the bad guy, and for some reason we join up with him to help him in his cause. Has anyone figured out why we're helping him, rather than just ignoring him? He can't get out of his castle either way, so if we would have just ignored him there would have been zero repercussions.
    I really wish we could ditch him, drop him out of the sky or chop his head off and mount it over the throne. The way the story's set up it doesn't matter if we want to help him or not, and we're certainly not incentivized to like him. The story's about Odyn so he decides everything we do.

    In regards to Odyn being locked up, I wonder just what the curse is even supposed to do. They wanted an excuse for Odyn not showing up in earlier expansions, but they immediately break the rule they set up. Sending out his warriors is no problem. Odyn himself wanders around making random people cook for him in Stormheim. The writing would actually be less awful if they just removed the curse.

    On the bright side they didn't put any useful NPCs in the Mead Hall, so I guess you'll never go there once the campaign's done, if that's the case then you only get to see Odyn when you kick his ass in the dungeon.

  20. #60
    Got a beta invite a few days back. Immediately went to try out warrior.

    I got to earn Odyn's recognition alongside Vrykul and deemed his Champion. Then I went to Stormheim to earn a chance to be judged AGAIN and get into the Halls AGAIN. Where I have to prove myself to Odyn AGAIN, where the bosses/NPCs treat it as if I've never been there. It felt -really- stupid.

    I wish that when you run the Halls, if a warrior is in your group, you get unique dialogue. Something like the champion of Odyn aiding his allies in proving their worth. Perhaps it could be that, while Odyn trusts you, he wants your allies to be worthy of the Aegis as well. That could at least combat some of the "Dah fuq" moments I felt running the dungeon.

    No clue how to make Stormheim work for Warriors though. Unless we, for some reason, wish to master the trials and "truly earn" our right. Though that seems like a BIIIIIIIG stretch.

    Having this recycled stuff would be acceptable to me if they would at least add some unique dialogue for Warriors to make it all piece together well.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •