2023-24 NHL Season Thread.

[VanillaO]

Ya, but Burns had 75, so it's not like he was far and away the best scoring D-man or anything insane. I see a lot of split voting on that one (Doughty too), and wouldn't really be surprised to see any of them win it - they are all more than deserving nominees.

[Zeoni]

Burns was also a minus player on a team that had a goal differential of what +20 or so? I got to see him play a bunch this year and hes mean and great offensively but he is the definition of a defensive liability. There's a reason hes not the top D man on the Sharks. While his point output was near Karlsson he also had a much better supporting cast and didnt have to worry as much about matchup because Vlasic took care of the other teams big boys. EK65 played like 29m a game playing vs every top line in the league.

Burns isn't even in the conversation for me. Its an argument between the offensive prowess outweighing elite defending. Karlsson vs Doughty.

[draynay]

Burns is the third of three finalists, he deserves that much. I agree that it is a contest between the two, Doughty and Karlsson, featuring rival philosophies on defensemen. Did Doughty do enough offensively to bolster his defensive numbers? Did Karlsson do enough defensively to bolster his offensive numbers? I think its a close race, there are two deserving candidates.

[Greeney]

I've never been a fan of giving the award to the best offensive defenseman rather than the best defensive defenseman. I'm also not a fan of the award going to players on teams I dislike the most.

[Puupi]

I've never been a fan of giving the award to the best offensive defenseman rather than the best defensive defenseman.

Yep. I'd emphasize +- stat on picking the best D, not individual points.

[Stommped]

Goodbye Taco Goodbye Bicks

[VanillaO]

Man... You guys are STILL in cap hell, too. Was reading you have about 10M to sign 8 players (barring any other moves... this also includes overage from Panarin and other shit). But I mean, 3 Cups in 6 seasons... can't complain too much about that.

[Nazrark]

Man... You guys are STILL in cap hell, too. Was reading you have about 10M to sign 8 players (barring any other moves... this also includes overage from Panarin and other shit). But I mean, 3 Cups in 6 seasons... can't complain too much about that.

Yeah the team is going to get gutted for the most part. Weise and Ladd are gone. The hope is Montreal resigns Weise.

If it comes to it. I might see them trading Toews away. The two players at 10.5 mill wouldn't work anywhere in the league.

I say Toews because teams will line up for it and offer something significant back for cheaper. And nobody will take Seabrook at his cap hit anymore. Kane had more value than Toews especially when you consider the way he plays.

[Rennadrel]

Yeah the team is going to get gutted for the most part. Weise and Ladd are gone. The hope is Montreal resigns Weise.

If it comes to it. I might see them trading Toews away. The two players at 10.5 mill wouldn't work anywhere in the league.

I say Toews because teams will line up for it and offer something significant back for cheaper. And nobody will take Seabrook at his cap hit anymore. Kane had more value than Toews especially when you consider the way he plays.

Or survive a year until the cap goes up a lot more.

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Burns is the third of three finalists, he deserves that much. I agree that it is a contest between the two, Doughty and Karlsson, featuring rival philosophies on defensemen. Did Doughty do enough offensively to bolster his defensive numbers? Did Karlsson do enough defensively to bolster his offensive numbers? I think its a close race, there are two deserving candidates.

Players on near basement teams shouldn't be getting nominated for awards.

[draynay]

Players on near basement teams shouldn't be getting nominated for awards.

I guess that rules out all Canadian teams.

[Nazrark]

Expansion has been confirmed and we will have the Las Vegas Black Knights. There is a 98% chance they are a pacific division team. There should be plenty of trades this year. Just to deal with the expansion draft as well.

[Rennadrel]

I guess that rules out all Canadian teams.

Well usually to be considered a good player, your team has to succeed.

[Puupi]

Well usually to be considered a good player, your team has to succeed.

.........what? You can't be serious, right? For example, are you saying Anze Kopitar isn't a good player, because he plays for team Slovenia?

[draynay]

.........what? You can't be serious, right? For example, are you saying Anze Kopitar isn't a good player, because he plays for team Slovenia?

Obviously, he only even made the team cuz his dad is the coach.

[Rennadrel]

.........what? You can't be serious, right? For example, are you saying Anze Kopitar isn't a good player, because he plays for team Slovenia?

Since when was I talking about international games where you only have a few games to play versus an 82 game season? To be award worthy, you shouldn't be on a scrub team that can't win. It's like calling Karlsson a good defenseman because he scores a lot of points, when he sucks at playing defense, which is supposed to be his job. Awards in the NHL are a joke when point production is weighed before how well a player plays in contrast to his team, as well as the position that they play. You don't give a defenseman an award because he had 100 points but was still a -20 on a team that didn't make the playoffs, you give it to the guy who is a plus player and may have only put up 40 or 50 points. It's fucking laughable that players who are defensive liabilities get awards for putting up points when defense is supposed to be their primary job.

[Puupi]

Since when was I talking about international games where you only have a few games to play versus an 82 game season? To be award worthy, you shouldn't be on a scrub team that can't win. It's like calling Karlsson a good defenseman because he scores a lot of points, when he sucks at playing defense, which is supposed to be his job. Awards in the NHL are a joke when point production is weighed before how well a player plays in contrast to his team, as well as the position that they play. You don't give a defenseman an award because he had 100 points but was still a -20 on a team that didn't make the playoffs, you give it to the guy who is a plus player and may have only put up 40 or 50 points. It's fucking laughable that players who are defensive liabilities get awards for putting up points when defense is supposed to be their primary job.

Now you are talking about a completely different thing. What does this have to do with playing in a bad team?

[Zeoni]

If you think Karlsson is a defensive liability you either didnt watch any Sens games or are too bias to judge. His icetime alone speaks for itself, no one would play someone who "sucks at defense" for half the game in all situations. Sorry bud it doesn't work like that. His advanced stats are among tops in the league. For example his team averaged around 9.5 less shot attempts AGAINST while hes on the ice. His defense partners were anchors too, Methot is terrible and they playes on the same pairing quite a bit this season. People see the point totals and assume hes just an offensive defenseman. Hes not, Karlsson is 2 way and among the top 3 D in the league imo.

[Greeney]

If you think Karlsson is a defensive liability you either didnt watch any Sens games or are too bias to judge. His icetime alone speaks for itself, no one would play someone who "sucks at defense" for half the game in all situations. Sorry bud it doesn't work like that. His advanced stats are among tops in the league. For example his team averaged around 9.5 less shot attempts AGAINST while hes on the ice. His defense partners were anchors too, Methot is terrible and they playes on the same pairing quite a bit this season. People see the point totals and assume hes just an offensive defenseman. Hes not, Karlsson is 2 way and among the top 3 D in the league imo.

Karlsson is the best offensive defenseman in the league IMO, but I don't think Rennadrel is off the mark completely. If let's say for example Mike Smith had the best year of any goalie in terms of sv% but his team still only finished with 78 points I wouldn't want to see him nominated for the Vezina. An award like the Hart / Norris / Selke / Vezina / GM / Jack Adams makes sense that it should go to a player, Coach, or GM that is enough of a difference that the individual helped carry his team to the playoffs (Calder would be an exception from my PoV). Seeing an award like the Hart or Norris go to a player on a non-playoff team feels a bit like the Conn Smythe going to a player on a team who lost in the quarter-finals of the playoffs.

Personally, I'd rather see Norris go to the most defensive defenseman in the league and have a new trophy for the best offensive defenseman.

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Now you are talking about a completely different thing. What does this have to do with playing in a bad team?

I think he's implying Doughty did enough to help his team get 1 OT loss away from being top in a very competitive division while Karlsson couldn't help his team get close to 4th in the worst division in the league. Karlsson not being on Ottawa would drop them maybe a spot or two from a non-playoff team to still a non-playoff team while Doughty not being on LA would likely have dropped them from being a clear-cut playoff team to being either a non-playoff team or a wild card team.

[Zeoni]

Norris isnt most valuable defenseman though its the defenseman that demonstrates the best ability at the position all around. He shouldent lose points because the team he plays on sucks hot dick, that doesn't seem fair to me. That type of criteria is more in line with the Hart and Jack Adams trophy. The way I see it the Norris by definition goes to the guy who had the best season on both sides of the game and that imo (by a narrow margin mind you) was Karlsson. Its an individual award that shouldent be determined by the team someone plays on. This isnt basketball where 1 superstar makes the difference between a playoff team and missing the post season. A superstar almost never wills their team to the playoffs on their own unless its a goalie (aka price last year). NHL is one of the most team dependant sports.

[draynay]

Kopitar got the "C" today, they took it away from Brown, maybe he[Brown] can focus on not being so shitty now.