Legion - Subtlety discussion

[kalaratic]

Wonder if they would do the same with Alacrity? 20% to gain an extra stack off a 6pt finisher.

went ahead and tested it for you, yep it does

[Jaronicity]

went ahead and tested it for you, yep it does

You got it before I did XD. I hopped on the PTR to check this mumbo jumbo out and came back here to also mention that yes it does.

[defury]

That has to be a bug or DS is now the single best talent in our tree.

[kalaratic]

That has to be a bug or DS is now the single best talent in our tree.

it's actually intended. at the bottom of this post

[Roncero]

Currently i'm using ShD to renew SoD and then sprint and vanish in the meantime

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We never had a good AoE, why do you care about it now?

Because we were told a commitment to your spec was required with the artefact, and that each spec would be viable in aoe and ST situations by way of talent choices. Every other dps spec in the game has that (provided they actually give assassination some aoe), but subtlety doesn't because of Class Fantasy™.

Class Fantasy™ is just their latest buzzword to justify any and all decisions.

[defury]

it's actually intended. at the bottom of this post

That makes it far and away the strongest talent on that tree and possibly the entire talent tree. That's extremely short sighted of them. I'm so confused. The whole Rogue class is ending up to be a confusing mess, I might just jump to DH to avoid all the weird stuff they are doing with Rogues.

[elfporn]

Wonder if they would do the same with Alacrity? 20% to gain an extra stack off a 6pt finisher.

ya the alacrity bit was in the theorycraft thread, looks like the extra cp adds a 20% chance for extra proc to all cp procced effects though, which is nice indeed

[panzaghor]

What spec? I haven't found a way to use ShD to renew SoD without it being a pretty big DPS hit.

i'm pooling enough to use it every 35 seconds without wasting it, and once between every refresh i'm entering stealth using vanish and the bonus shadow dance i get from DS keeping at least 2 of them for the SoD, i'm doing this because i have 2 keybinds on ShD one to refresh and one to burst. When i get my hands into the artifact weapon i'll test it with the bonus vanish too.

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Because this expansion seems to be about having class fantasy and having a heavier commitment to your actual spec through artifacts, and again rogue seems to be the class that always needs to keep an offspec ready for AoE fights. It was already annoying before but now it is even more so with artifacts.

There is no thing such as an aoe fight, on fights with multiple targets you will never be the top dps ofc but there is always something that needs to be killed first and that's when you will do your "magic" e.g Phantasmal Radiance on Iskar. If they add some AoE that's good but if they don't i'm not going to complain either.

[elfporn]

12.99-->16.23 energy gen with 29.85% BASE haste (2985 haste rating) and 62.31% at 25 stacks

So alacrity gave me 3.22 energy regen and....doubled-ish my haste? lust put me well over 100% - i wasnt able to get solid numbers because the dude popped it before i had full alacrity. oh well.

thats at lv 100 on ptr

So impactful, but ehhhhhhhhhhh needs gear and simcrafttt

Also, fucking gems.

[Deleted]

So, I downloaded PTR and gave the spec a go. I only played a little and it was hitting a dummy, so there's still a lot I wanna test. I also want to write a longer feedback later but I have no time for that now, so I'm going to quickly add my impression:

Everyone keeps spouting "clunky" everytime they speak of this spec, and I can see why now. It's just... clunky. There's just so much micro management - Nightblade falls off quickly, SoD doesn't even feel like it's there, ShD charges out of nowhere, CPs out of nowhere, Energy starved...

If I'm sitting at 4 CPs, I feel like I should wait for Shadow Techniques to proc, but then my energy goes up too high and my finishers make me waste energy.

I miss the ShD bar. I keep hitting Backstab in ShD and Shadowstrike out of it. It's just so bad.

I feel like I generate more CPs than I can spend, and not enough energy to micro manage every aspect. I feel punished to cast Backstab because it's an energy waste, and there's so many cooldowns - Nightblade, Shadow Dance, Vanish, and possibly DfA and Enveloping - and it just seems I can't keep up with them because of low energy. Even Vigor doesn't feel like it generates that much energy.

Shadow Blades feels more like a nuisance than a buff. Suddenly I get 3 or 4 CPs and I either need to waste CPs to cast another Backstab or I have to wait for an ST proc and waste Shadow Blades uptime. It's so useless, why the heck do I need even more CPs?

Still, I enjoy the general aspect of it. Like the blueprint is cool, but the execution is poor. Some form of energy regen would be a good start.

[Jaronicity]

It feels weird using DS and hitting a finisher and then KABLAMMO full energy because it gives me 80 energy. I started using finishers at low energy just in case it procced so I could feel less bad about the amount I was overcapping. I doubt that's in my best interest since it is only a 20% chance for the extra 40, but still.

I am just kind of mucking around with different combinations and seeing what feels best for me. Like a lot of people, I find I'm either wasting energy or wasting CPs. If I get a lot of SD procs, it can get a bit wild, but if you don't get one for a while then it's lights out. Still, I like the ideas around the spec and I have boiled it down to good old familiar assassination or something I haven't tried before.

I imagine with artifact traits it will iron itself out to some degree. Ideally, various talent combinations are within a few % of each other so I can pick things that suit how I like to play.

[defury]

So, I downloaded PTR and gave the spec a go. I only played a little and it was hitting a dummy, so there's still a lot I wanna test. I also want to write a longer feedback later but I have no time for that now, so I'm going to quickly add my impression:

Everyone keeps spouting "clunky" everytime they speak of this spec, and I can see why now. It's just... clunky. There's just so much micro management - Nightblade falls off quickly, SoD doesn't even feel like it's there, ShD charges out of nowhere, CPs out of nowhere, Energy starved...

If I'm sitting at 4 CPs, I feel like I should wait for Shadow Techniques to proc, but then my energy goes up too high and my finishers make me waste energy.

I miss the ShD bar. I keep hitting Backstab in ShD and Shadowstrike out of it. It's just so bad.

I feel like I generate more CPs than I can spend, and not enough energy to micro manage every aspect. I feel punished to cast Backstab because it's an energy waste, and there's so many cooldowns - Nightblade, Shadow Dance, Vanish, and possibly DfA and Enveloping - and it just seems I can't keep up with them because of low energy. Even Vigor doesn't feel like it generates that much energy.

Shadow Blades feels more like a nuisance than a buff. Suddenly I get 3 or 4 CPs and I either need to waste CPs to cast another Backstab or I have to wait for an ST proc and waste Shadow Blades uptime. It's so useless, why the heck do I need even more CPs?

Still, I enjoy the general aspect of it. Like the blueprint is cool, but the execution is poor. Some form of energy regen would be a good start.

It doesn't get better when you get used to it either, I leveled up to 107 as sub before I realized I wasn't getting used to it. I don't know what they can change at this point. SoD being cast automatically when you ShD maybe? Nightblade same duration as Rupture? I don't know, I'll likely be on DH because of it.

[Wow]

I imagine with artifact traits it will iron itself out to some degree. Ideally, various talent combinations are within a few % of each other so I can pick things that suit how I like to play.

Not really the artifact just adds more dmg and even more rng lol. Sub is a giant clunky rng mess with no aoe even with a full artifact.

[Deleted]

I miss the ShD bar. I keep hitting Backstab in ShD and Shadowstrike out of it. It's just so bad.

THIS!
Without addons, there are zero tells as to whats happening. There's no visual feedback.

[Rikhart]

THIS!
Without addons, there are zero tells as to whats happening. There's no visual feedback.

You need an addon to tell you that you just pressed the shadow dance button, and can now shadowstrike?

[Holycrap1]

You need an addon to tell you that you just pressed the shadow dance button, and can now shadowstrike?

having the shd bar creates consistency in our rotation. You already have the stealth bar, the whole point of shadow dance is to be able to use stealth abilities in combat so. The only reason I can think of removing the bar is to fill up our frames again after removing all our abilities.

[elfporn]

You need an addon to tell you that you just pressed the shadow dance button, and can now shadowstrike?

SD not paging to the stealth bar is the clunkiest most inconsistent part of the spec right now. monitoring the buffs/debuffs is just a matter of adjustment, but i now use a different bind for vanish and SD to use shadowstrike, it's immensely irritating.

I'm submitting a bug report on it every day, now that i can, i recommend everyone else do so, easiest way to make them see that it's not liked, since they can ignore forums because we're the "vocal minority"

[kalaratic]

You need an addon to tell you that you just pressed the shadow dance button, and can now shadowstrike?

personally i actually use a giant tmw that tells me when it's up because the duration is so short and it being on it's own retarded gcd i have to spam the button like crazy so i have to know when it pops

[panzaghor]

SD not paging to the stealth bar is the clunkiest most inconsistent part of the spec right now. monitoring the buffs/debuffs is just a matter of adjustment, but i now use a different bind for vanish and SD to use shadowstrike, it's immensely irritating.

I'm submitting a bug report on it every day, now that i can, i recommend everyone else do so, easiest way to make them see that it's not liked, since they can ignore forums because we're the "vocal minority"

I'm reporting it everyday too

[blunts]

Just checked out PTR, and now have +200 haste gems in my sockets -_-

I'm kinda confused as to what stat priority is gonna be with this. I'm assuming Mastery > Crit > Haste > Vers? I honestly have no clue. Anyone have any ideas? Probably gonna have to restore some vendored gear.