Senator Chris Murphy Filibusters Senate

[Pterodactylus]

I am glad he is doing it the way it is intended, not the non-talking "filibusters" the republicans like to employ - barring Ted Cruz.

[Eviscero]

How about starting with an honest debate instead of spreading misinformation, lies, and/or propaganda.

Lets start with your list of "undesirables" that you believe shouldn't be able to buy a gun.

1. People on the terror watch list. There have been people put on the no-fly list mistakenly - including the late Senator Ted Kennedy. Now, he was able to get himself off of the list but anyone that isn't a Senator would end up spending months and thousands of dollars in legal fees to do so. There is NO process for even determining if you are on the list much less having yourself removed. Removing anyone's Constitutional rights without due process is a horrible idea. If the FBI or Justice department feels that someone is such a danger that they should be stripped of their Constitutional rights, all they have to do is charge and indict them with a felony. An indictment is all it takes to prevent you from legally buying a firearm - at least until you can get it cleared. A conviction will prevent it forever.

If such a law passed, then being denied the right to buy a gun would be a pretty quick way to determine that you're on such a list, uhdoyeeee! And one would hope there would be measures added to make it easier to process the absolutely minuscule number of accidental additions to the list.

[Cheze]

you can't buy a gun online and have it shipped to you (you can have it shipped to a local licensed dealer, but a background check is initiated at that point.)

the issue really is that the internet has made it much easier to coordinate person to person sales (the so-called 'gun show loophole'), which do not require a background check. This could hypothetically be solved with proper registration/documentation, but lord forbid you ever talk about requiring firearms to be registered.

[Eviscero]

I'll say it again.... in big letters so that maybe you can understand.

You cannot legally buy a gun online if you really believe this then link me a site where I can buy me an AR-15 online. Surely you can find this - it's one of the most commonly sold long guns.

You're little scenario isn't true either. You can legally buy a handgun. You cannot legally sell it to a minor. You cannot buy a legally buy a gun with the intent of selling it to someone who cannot pass the background check. You can do it but you'd be committing a felony. Again, if you're going to break the law, new laws won't matter.

https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/

"HOW TO BUY
1) Before You Buy
Purchasing a firearm online is easy as long as you follow these steps & to ensure that your transaction is processed smoothly, please review these requirements carefully before purchasing online."

[Citizen T]

I've not personally bought one online, nor have I ever attempted to.
However I can't imagine there would be laws and background checks on the internet sales of guns in Colorado(99% sure it was that, it was a C state, I'll try to find the Senator that mentioned it.)
or that an entire 7,000 Americans FAILED their background check while trying to purchase a gun online...
and another 300,000 succeeded...

However, as for that scenario.
No its a real scenario, its one that I lived.
When I was a police explorer in my cities PD, I was 21 my explorer captain was 17, with the authorization of our CO(Actual police officer) I went to the shop and purchased the gun as a private citizen and then turned around and sold it to my captain.

You start by saying that you've never done it but the go on to try to state authoritatively that you can. Well, you even said that people passed/failed background checks when doing it. Want to know why? It's because you can order a gun online but it has to be shipped to a FFL dealer in your state, then you go see that dealer and fill out form ATF4473 for a background check!!!! You're actually getting it from that dealer not shipped to you via UPS/Fedex/USPS.

As to what you just described with purchasing a firearm with the intent of selling it, you just confessed to committing a federal felony. The very first question on ATF From 4472 is "Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person." You made a straw purchase.

[Cheze]

So you admit to committing a felony. That's a text book straw purchase. Congratulations on proving why you can never stop criminals from getting them. People like you.


I'm still waiting for one single website I can buy a gun from.

http://www.laketahoenews.net/2013/02...ales-thriving/

[Dextroden]

I've not personally bought one online, nor have I ever attempted to.
However I can't imagine there would be laws and background checks on the internet sales of guns in Colorado(99% sure it was that, it was a C state, I'll try to find the Senator that mentioned it.)
or that an entire 7,000 Americans FAILED their background check while trying to purchase a gun online...
and another 300,000 succeeded...

EDIT: two quick links, I'll grab more if you would like to reiterate that you can in-fact buy guns online.

http://www.thirdway.org/report/what-...kground-checks

http://smartgunlaws.org/universal-gu...olicy-summary/



However, as for that scenario.
No its a real scenario, its one that I lived.
When I was a police explorer in my cities PD, I was 21 my explorer captain was 17, with the authorization of our CO(Actual police officer) I went to the shop and purchased the gun as a private citizen and then turned around and sold it to my captain.

One of the largest of these sites—Armslist.com—essentially serves as an eHarmony or Craigslist for gun sales, connecting gun buyers and sellers in each of the 50 states. Buyers can search for-sale listings or want ads within their state or city, locate unlicensed sellers or buyers, and arrange to meet up in person to purchase guns. As long as the gun doesn’t cross state lines or travel through the U.S. Postal System, 34 states allow these sales between strangers to take place unregulated and without criminal background checks.

Buddy. Brotato.

Can't get a gun shipped to you. And it sounds like you knowingly broke the law.

Yay gun control?

[Citizen T]

https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/

They sell firearms but not directly to me. If I want to purchase a firearm from them, I have to have it shipped to a FFL dealer in my state. Then I have to go visit that dealer and fill out ATF4473 for a background check. When I pass it, I he can then transfer it to me.

[Stormdash]

The law requires for you to buy a gun from an FFL, you have to have an NICS check done. For you to buy a firearm from another state, it has to be processed by an FFL in the buyer's home state... which means an NICS check again. You can't have a firearm delivered to your door by an FFL, you have to initiate the purchase, do the NICS form, and receive the firearm in person... which means an NICS check again.

What you can do online is advertise the interest to sell or interest to buy a firearm from someone in your own state... but you have to actually arrange the transaction to occur in person or you'll be shipping the item which requires an FFL and again, an NICS check. So the closest to "buying online" you can get the way anti-gunners is arranging to meet face to face with a potential buyer/seller and only then ultimately deciding to go through with the transaction. And for all that, even those transactions are only legal if the person buying it is legally permitted to own the firearm.

So there's no way to turn the prism in the light to get to "people are allowed to purchase guns online that they aren't supposed to have".

As an aside to the filibuster... Senate Democrats actually skipped a classified national security briefing on the Pulse terror attack in order to continue choking the "assault weapon" strawman to death.

[KeirAdish]

So you admit to committing a felony. That's a text book straw purchase. Congratulations on proving why you can never stop criminals from getting them. People like you.


I'm still waiting for one single website I can buy a gun from.

Eviscero was kind enough to provide the link.

I take it you decided to not read my post and completely missed the very first line where I specifically state I've never even attempted to buy one online, therein saying that I did not personally know what those website url's would be.

Again since you failed to read, everything we did was completely within the boundaries of the law, that is why we got approval from our PD, to ensure that it was legal to do.
No felonies involved.

[TZucchini]

You cannot legally buy a gun online

Well. This just simply isn't true. See here.

I can go on armslist, and find someone in my state selling an AR-15. I can send that person a check, and they can mail me the rifle.

Boom. I've just purchased a firearm online without a background check.

- - - Updated - - -

So the closest to "buying online" you can get the way anti-gunners is arranging to meet face to face with a potential buyer/seller and only then ultimately deciding to go through with the transaction.

Not true. See above.

[Stormdash]

Well. This just simply isn't true. See here.

I can go on armslist, and find someone in my state selling an AR-15. I can send that person a check, and they can mail me the rifle.

Boom. I've just purchased a firearm online without a background check.

- - - Updated - - -



Not true. See above.

If you are factually not legally able to own that firearm, you've committed a felony, though. So not a "legal purchase". That includes "with the intent to commit a crime".

[Cheze]

Buddy. Brotato.

Can't get a gun shipped to you. And it sounds like you knowingly broke the law.

Yay gun control?

right, everyone understands this

enforcing the law is functionally impossible due to the ease of straw purchase, a problem the internet has exacerbated

also ffs people, the above poster says he had law enforcement authorization to make the purchase; he knows it was illegal

[Dextroden]

Oh my. This thread became fascinating fast.

[Citizen T]

Well. This just simply isn't true. See here.

I can go on armslist, and find someone in my state selling an AR-15. I can send that person a check, and they can mail me the rifle.

Boom. I've just purchased a firearm online without a background check.

- - - Updated - - -



Not true. See above.

Go back and read that again. Licensee is a person holding a Federal Firearms License (FFL). The average person is not a FFL. As to someone in the same state, it doesn't matter as you can sell face to face in the same state. Private sales between residents of the same state are legal.

Sidenote: A FFL cannot ship or sell directly to a non-FFL without a background check regardless of if they residents of the same state.

[Narwal]

Its been tried, it either ends in Republicans outright vetoing it, or playing fun time with it and entirely changing it.

Senator Murphy has noted multiple times that all he wants is the Republicans in the senate to agree to sit down and actually discuss this, but they wont.

Kind of like how we had a thoughful debate on the obamacare bill that came to the floor, right? Oh wait, that was rammed through without being read and debated!

When you have a majority in both the senate and the house, you get to choose what's talked about. If the people don't like it, they can change it.

[enragedgorilla]

https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/

"HOW TO BUY
1) Before You Buy
Purchasing a firearm online is easy as long as you follow these steps & to ensure that your transaction is processed smoothly, please review these requirements carefully before purchasing online."

Here is a direct c/p from the site you listed...funny you seem to have missed this part.

FIREARM SHIPMENTS
We cannot ship a gun direct to you, but we can ship to the local FFL dealer of your choice. Any legitimate gun store or gun dealer has an FFL Gun Dealers license. When buying a firearm please fully review the other info listed in the payment & FFL sections before placing your order. Firearms and Ammo orders are sent Signature Required to verify delivery someone will need to be home to sign for the package any items that are returned because of lack of signature will be charged a restocking fee. We do not contact or arrange transfers with dealers this is solely the customers responsibility please do not ask us to do this for you . It is the customers responsibility to verify that the item is legal in your state BEFORE placing the order.

If you purchase a firearm and other items on the same order the entire order will ship to the FFL dealer there are no split shipments.

[KeirAdish]

Go back and read that again. Licensee is a person holding a Federal Firearms License (FFL). The average person is not a FFL.

"A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State."

quoted from the link he provided.
So I could mail Pre 9-11 an AR-15 from an internet sale as long as he were in my state regardless of who he was or what he may or may not have done in the past.

[TZucchini]

If you are factually not legally able to own that firearm, you've committed a felony, though. So not a "legal purchase". That includes "with the intent to commit a crime".

Pretty sure that's just for the seller. If the seller knows it will be used in a crime, it's illegal. If they don't, it's a legal sale.

Point stands though. Firearms can be purchased online without background checks.

[Cheze]

This is not true at all. Mailing guns has been illegal since 1968. Look up the act that was passed after RFK and MLK were shot. What you're saying is factually inaccurate.

Yes, you can talk to someone online and within your state (depending), you could arrange a meet up. But that's not an online sale.

the post you quoted contains a link to atf.gov that informs us of the following:

A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State... Handguns are not mailable.