Senator Chris Murphy Filibusters Senate

[TZucchini]

This is not true at all. Mailing guns has been illegal since 1968. Look up the act that was passed after RFK and MLK were shot. What you're saying is factually inaccurate.

Yes, you can talk to someone online and within your state (depending), you could arrange a meet up. But that's not an online sale.

Sorry friend. Did you bother reading the link to the ATF website? No?

A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State.

What part do you not understand?

[KeirAdish]

A police officer can't give you permission to commit a felony. You broke the law. No cop can change the law to allow a minor to purchase a gun. As you bought the gun and sold it knowingly to someone who legally couldn't own it, you committed a felony. Barney Fife can't grant you immunity.

At 17 he can legally purchase from a private seller, just not a public seller.
Like I said but you continuously ignore(are you having issues reading?) we didn't ask the officer to change the law, we asked the officer what the law was.
He told us and we followed every law in the state of Georgia.

[Eviscero]

Here is a direct c/p from the site you listed...funny you seem to have missed this part.

FIREARM SHIPMENTS
We cannot ship a gun direct to you, but we can ship to the local FFL dealer of your choice. Any legitimate gun store or gun dealer has an FFL Gun Dealers license. When buying a firearm please fully review the other info listed in the payment & FFL sections before placing your order. Firearms and Ammo orders are sent Signature Required to verify delivery someone will need to be home to sign for the package any items that are returned because of lack of signature will be charged a restocking fee. We do not contact or arrange transfers with dealers this is solely the customers responsibility please do not ask us to do this for you . It is the customers responsibility to verify that the item is legal in your state BEFORE placing the order.

If you purchase a firearm and other items on the same order the entire order will ship to the FFL dealer there are no split shipments.

I didn't miss it. It's not relevant to the claim Thwart made in massive rageface font that you can't buy a gun online. He didn't have a conniption and scream 'YOU CANT HAVE A GUN SHIPPED DIRECTLY TO YOUR HOUSE FROM A PURCHASE ONLINE.' If he had I would have linked him to the evidence that shows that too is false.

[TZucchini]

Go back and read that again. Licensee is a person holding a Federal Firearms License (FFL). The average person is not a FFL. As to someone in the same state, it doesn't matter as you can sell face to face in the same state. Private sales between residents of the same state are legal.

Sidenote: A FFL cannot ship or sell directly to a non-FFL without a background check regardless of if they residents of the same state.

What am I reading again? You said "You cannot legally buy a gun online." I've provided evidence that you can.

[Stormdash]

Pretty sure that's just for the seller. If the seller knows it will be used in a crime, it's illegal. If they don't, it's a legal sale.

Point stands though. Firearms can be purchased online without background checks.

If the BUYER knows it will be used in a crime, it's a crime too.

Even your scenario still describes the arrangement of a transaction off-line. Where are all these online retailers that transact your payment online and immediately ship the long gun to your home in the same state? The actual contract formation is a legally relevant detail, as much as you might not wish it was.

[Felya]

Let's see if people trash on this filibuster, like they did the Rand Paul/Ted Cruz one awhile back. Probably not because it's for 'common sense' gun control which is the wet dream of narcissist authoritarian freaks and feelsgood saps everywhere.

Uhm... Ted Cruz filibustered the repeal of ACA... To talk about repealing of ACA... Let that synch in for a moment... He demanded repealing ACA, by filibustering the repeal of ACA.

[Citizen T]

At 17 he can legally purchase from a private seller, just not a public seller.
Like I said but you continuously ignore(are you having issues reading?) we didn't ask the officer to change the law, we asked the officer what the law was.
He told us and we followed every law in the state of Georgia.

The law in that state may allow a 17 year old to purchase a long gun but purchasing the gun for another is illegal regardless of who it is for. He made a straw purchase. If it was a handgun, then he broke GA law. You must be 18 to possess much less purchase a handgun in the state of GA.

[TZucchini]

If the BUYER knows it will be used in a crime, it's a crime too.

According to what law? I genuinely have not seen that language used.

Even your scenario still describes the arrangement of a transaction off-line. Where are all these online retailers that transact your payment online and immediately ship the long gun to your home in the same state? The actual contract formation is a legally relevant detail, as much as you might not wish it was.

Pay-pal transaction. Online payment. Online sale.

[Narwal]

A police officer can't give you permission to commit a felony. You broke the law. No cop can change the law to allow a minor to purchase a gun. As you bought the gun and sold it knowingly to someone who legally couldn't own it, you committed a felony. Barney Fife can't grant you immunity.

http://smartgunlaws.org/minimum-age-...ms-in-georgia/

What the poster to you was saying is inaccurate. The gun does not belong to the underaged. The guardian/parent can allow their child to handle a gun, in their own home or on private property with appropriate hunting licenses and the approval of the private land owner.

If you buy a gun, and give it to someone underage, and they are not doing one of the things mentioned, you have committed a crime, and anything they do will come back to you as the one who has purchased it.

[TZucchini]

Why do you keep repeating this when you have zero evidence to support it? A news article that claims it to be true doesn't make it any more true than when it comes from your mouth.

News article? The ATF website is a new article now?

If I find a local firearm on an online website (armslist). Pay for the firearm using an online transaction (paypal). And have the firearm mailed to my house. That's an online purchase. And it's completely legal.

[Citizen T]

News article? The ATF website is a new article now?

If I find a local firearm on an online website (armslist). Pay for the firearm using an online transaction (paypal). And have the firearm mailed to my house. That's an online purchase. And it's completely legal.

And essentially no different that meeting that person in the parking lot of the local Walmart for a private sale.

[Svifnymr]

At 17 he can legally purchase from a private seller, just not a public seller.
Like I said but you continuously ignore(are you having issues reading?) we didn't ask the officer to change the law, we asked the officer what the law was.
He told us and we followed every law in the state of Georgia.

Federal law makes it illegal to buy a firearm for purposes of resale or to circumvent other legal restrictions. A straw purchase is a felony.

An officer under the age of 21 can have parent or legal guardian purchase for them, or can obtain a letter of authorization saying it's for duty use that would allow the legal purchase. His comment about the cop changing the law was not saying you asked the cop to change it, but that the information the cop gave you was not true to actual federal law.

[TZucchini]

And essentially no different that meeting that person in the parking lot of the local Walmart for a private sale.

And buying something online from Walmart.com is essentially no different than going to my local Walmart in town.

It's still an online purchase, by the way.

[Stormdash]

Pay-pal transaction. Online payment. Online sale.

You've figured out a way to squint at it to convince yourself, so good for you. Not for nothing, seeing as there's no evidence that anybody is actually using this business model, do you have any indication that any mass shooter has acquired a firearm this way legally? i.e. including with no present intention to use it in a crime?

[Narwal]

And where in there does it say the person is legally allowed to carry that gun while acting as a police officer. The 17 year old can not legally buy it, regardless of his parents opinion. They can buy it and allow him to manage it while at their home, or while he is at the range or hunting. Outside of movement to and from these activities, a minor can not possess and can never own a firearm.

I was agreeing with you! =D

And what the police officer probably said to him was, under certain circumstances people under 18 can use a gun purchased legally by a parent. He probably mischaracterized/misunderstood what the PD said to him and assumed that meant he can buy a gun and resell it to anyone under 18 as a private seller. WHICH IS 100% WRONG.

[Citizen T]

And buying something online from Walmart.com is essentially no different than going to my local Walmart in town.

It's still an online purchase, by the way.

You are arguing a tedious circle to no point. If the person buying the gun from in state via mail could pass a background check the it's a legal purchase and doesn't make any difference. If he can't pass the background check, then it's a felony for him to possess a firearm. Considering criminals break laws (by definition) another law won't stop criminals from possessing a firearm.

[Felya]

Read the GCA of 1968. You can not sell firearms across state lines and mailing across state lines is specifically banned. So in other words, you can't buy online. You can meet someone on a forum and arrange for a private sale if it's legal in your state, but that is not "buying online." You guys repeat this because 99% of people will read that and think there is an amazon for gun purchases they can go to and have an AR-15 show up at their door.

The only thing they would need is a distributor in the state, to solve that issue. It's the same model, but obviously different context, as used when you buy flowers from FTD. The point of sale is the local store, where online gets a cut as an advertiser or reseller.

But, if it doesn't happen... Then who cares about the law? Chalk it up to security from technological possibility. There is no better compromise, than giving up something you consider worthless, in return for what they consider of great value.

[KeirAdish]

You are arguing a tedious circle to no point. If the person buying the gun from in state via mail could pass a background check the it's a legal purchase and doesn't make any difference. If he can't pass the background check, then it's a felony for him to possess a firearm. Considering criminals break laws (by definition) another law won't stop criminals from possessing a firearm.

the background check would prevent them from purchasing them from private sellers over the internet.
The entire point is to require a background check for EVERY fun purchase, not just those that are through a dealer.
(btw: according to the same information for the 7k/300k the online background check takes on average 9 minutes.)

IE the transaction I presented earlier would have required a background check at which point someone would have corrected what the officer told us and we never would have made that transaction.
(I yield it was illegal and we were simply given incorrect information, but its several years too late to fix that now.)

[Felya]

You are arguing a tedious circle to no point. If the person buying the gun from in state via mail could pass a background check the it's a legal purchase and doesn't make any difference. If he can't pass the background check, then it's a felony for him to possess a firearm. Considering criminals break laws (by definition) another law won't stop criminals from possessing a firearm.

Yes, criminals are going to be criminal... But, that's why we lock doors and have alarms... Precaution is not about absolutes...

[Citizen T]

The only thing they would need is a distributor in the state, to solve that issue. It's the same model, but obviously different context, as used when you buy flowers from FTD. The point of sale is the local store, where online gets a cut as an advertiser or reseller.

But, if it doesn't happen... Then who cares about the law? Chalk it up to security from technological possibility. There is no better compromise, than giving up something you consider worthless, in return for what they consider of great value.

It doesn't work like that. To receive the firearm from out of state, you must have an FFL. If you have an FFL, you are no longer a private seller and MUST conduct a background check on every sale/transfer.