BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Slant]

Nice rant, but we don't know for a fact what the consequences will be. We know the technicalities of the process of extricating ourselves from the EU, but when it comes to the economy none of us has access to a crystal ball.

Who talks about a crystal ball? The consequences are right there in the legal texts. You just have to inform yourself. It's not like it's not been explained to you over and over again. Yet whenever someone comes up with text more than a couple paragraphs, your eyes somehow glaze over and you tune out until you find the reply button and can repeat the same bullshit you've "speculated" about before.

[Noradin]

Nice rant, but we don't know for a fact what the consequences will be. We know the technicalities of the process of extricating ourselves from the EU, but when it comes to the economy none of us has access to a crystal ball.

Normally you only ever find this argument when religious people claim "science is all a hoax, all they have is theories, they do not actually know" and then as proof bring up that "there is a margin of error attached to those numbers, so they do not actually know", but I guess it is the first thing people reach for when math and science tells them they are wrong about something in other situations, too.

[Deleted]

Ok how about u listen to this well known academic Youtuber who has, like me, worked through the available data to hand as fairly and objectively as he possibley can. You are welcome to call this guy ignorant too just because he comes to different conclusions than you.

The financial argument, that spends most of its time regarding the Cern project ? who is neither an EU project, Financial, or in any way relating to the point about funding?
Great one.
Also, more fucking importantly, does not relate to the financial industry whatsoever.

[Slant]

Prehaps someone could enlighten or guide my thought process because at the moment i am struggling to make sense of something.

One of my main dreams and goals is life is to own my house, yes some people shoot for the moon, my pipedream is to own a ton of bricks.:]

Now with that being said, every year the goverment is failing to meet house building quotes, in fact i don't think it matters what goverment or party we get in, its always going to be like this, torries, labour, libs or green party i think all of them will never meet these quotas.
Now i have nothing against immigration, infact i like living in a multicultural country however this is where my concerns are.

First, staying in the eu means more and more people will come to the uk to live, that means more and more strain on an already strained housing market, so in this regard staying in the eu will make it harder for me to obtain a house due to there being more demand.

Second, staying in the eu will mean more cheap labour, cheap labour will lower the basic living wage thus meaning i will earn less or more importantly i will earn more if i leave the eu.

Now i keep going over these two points i have made and i keep coming out with the same conclusion.
I will earn more and i will have less people to compete with in the housing market if i leave the eu, is this point correct?

I Also consider my niece that is just a year old and i think about her future and her prospect of her owning her own house in 20 or so years time.

That is factually incorrect. The UK already regulates immigration on its own. The UK is not part of the Schengen area. There is no free movement as such to and fro the UK. The immigrants you're speaking about are not cheap labour, they're highly qualified EU people. Sure, cheap labour also comes with it, to the extend that the UK is permitting it, but that is a national decision and nothing speaks for the UK to suddenly change their immigration policy bases on the Brexit.

Second, the house market is not controlled by UK Government. What did you think, that the actual UK Government from London finances your house? No man, that's a market. With market rules applying. Which means, yes, there are enough houses. You're just not willing to pay the price. Someone else is. So this is really just about you being stingy and blaming the EU for something the UK is really responsible for.

You'll earn the same. Why do I know this? Because I know companies. And companies really, really do not like to raise wages if they don't have to. What are you expecting? That suddenly in 2 years the manager comes in and says "Oh boy, we're finally out of the EU, here's an extra 200 a week for everyone of you!" In what world does wage policy work like that? If - big if here - your wages actually rise, it'll be more likely to be 10 pounds a week perhaps. And they'll sell it to you as a big triumph. Imagine a company with 1000 workers, that's 10 grand each week in an economy where you're either cut off from the EU market's favourable conditions or are paying a huge price for your independence. That's 10 grand most companies won't let go without a huge ass fight within the UK. And without EU labour protection laws, you'd better buckle up, because it's going to be a ride you haven't seen since Thatcher...

And houses? Why would investment companies build a surplus of houses to drop the price? That'd be nice for the consumer, but oh so totally the stupidest move by the housing market. The strained situation that you described? Companies profit from it. This is by design, to drive prices up.

[DarkAmbient]

You just have to inform yourself. It's not like it's not been explained to you over and over again. Yet whenever someone comes up with text more than a couple paragraphs, your eyes somehow glaze over and you tune out until you find the reply button and can repeat the same bullshit you've "speculated" about before.

You appear to have me confused with someone else.

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Normally you only ever find this argument when religious people claim "science is all a hoax, all they have is theories, they do not actually know" and then as proof bring up that "there is a margin of error attached to those numbers, so they do not actually know", but I guess it is the first thing people reach for when math and science tells them they are wrong about something in other situations, too.

Oh, so you do know what will happen in the future? If you could tell me the UK's net migration figures for 2019 post-Brexit that'd be great.

[Deleted]

Now with that being said, every year the goverment is failing to meet house building quotes,

Which is the fault of the EU how?

First, staying in the eu means more and more people will come to the uk to live, that means more and more strain on an already strained housing market, so in this regard staying in the eu will make it harder for me to obtain a house due to there being more demand.

Slightly more than half of all people that migrate to the UK have absolutely nothing to do with the EU - You could cut your immigration in half tommorow if you like, but politicians prefer blaming the EU for some reason, Weird.

Second, staying in the eu will mean more cheap labour, cheap labour will lower the basic living wage thus meaning i will earn less or more importantly i will earn more if i leave the eu.

The average EU migrant is more skilled than the average Non EU migrant - Once again, the EU is not the problem.

I will earn more and i will have less people to compete with in the housing market if i leave the eu, is this point correct?

Trivially, yes.

I Also consider my niece that is just a year old and i think about her future and her prospect of her owning her own house in 20 or so years time.

Tell your politicians to fucking build more.

[ati87]

Prehaps someone could enlighten or guide my thought process because at the moment i am struggling to make sense of something.

One of my main dreams and goals is life is to own my house, yes some people shoot for the moon, my pipedream is to own a ton of bricks.:]

Now with that being said, every year the goverment is failing to meet house building quotes, in fact i don't think it matters what goverment or party we get in, its always going to be like this, torries, labour, libs or green party i think all of them will never meet these quotas.
Now i have nothing against immigration, infact i like living in a multicultural country however this is where my concerns are.

First, staying in the eu means more and more people will come to the uk to live, that means more and more strain on an already strained housing market, so in this regard staying in the eu will make it harder for me to obtain a house due to there being more demand.

Second, staying in the eu will mean more cheap labour, cheap labour will lower the basic living wage thus meaning i will earn less or more importantly i will earn more if i leave the eu.

Now i keep going over these two points i have made and i keep coming out with the same conclusion.
I will earn more and i will have less people to compete with in the housing market if i leave the eu, is this point correct?

I Also consider my niece that is just a year old and i think about her future and her prospect of her owning her own house in 20 or so years time.

First
Correlation does not imply causation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correl...mply_causation

2e: How many EU immigrants do you think your country has? And how many of them are buying houses

3e: Why will you bloody earn more money? Because you aren't directly competing with low wage workers? Lets be clear, EU doesn't control wages that's your national government policy does. EU immigrants have to work on exactly the same conditions as the people in the countries they imimgrate to. If they have a advantage than it's all on your government or because they are just better then you.


Conclusion: your making assumptions and blaming the EU by filling the dots with anti EU bias.

[dribbles]

And the overall polling shows that it's to close to call instead of cherry picking polls.

So let's not cherry pick, let's look at all of them where 8/10 of the most recent are for leave. https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-polling/

A week to save the UK Vote Leave!

[Deleted]

Oh, so you do know what will happen in the future? If you could tell me the UK's net migration figures for 2019 post-Brexit that'd be great.

Not really altered?
There is no country with full access to the internal market that does not have the free movement of people.

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So let's not cherry pick, let's look at all of them where 8/10 of the most recent are for leave. https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-polling/

A week to save the UK Vote Leave!

Ah yes the most ignorant brexit argument there is - The Visa free travel Turks may or may not enjoy, impacts the UK in 0.000000%
Because you are not in Schengen, and have your own Visa policies.
In short, the EU could remove the Visa requirement from literally the entire world and it would still not impact you in any way shape or form.

[DarkAmbient]

Not really altered?

Sorry, I was expecting a precise answer to my question. You see, we know what will happen in the future, it's not just speculative. Actually while we're on the subject I'd like to know what our rate of inflation will be in 2020.

[Mayhem]

I have move the full gamut myself - I used to be a bremainer - But as the Brexit crowd starts talking i have changed my mind.
By that i mean, if they are going to be the retard that holds a shotgun to their leg and says 'do what i want or i shoot' I'm like - Go for it.
Because I'm just so fucking done with this shit - I haven't really heard any Brexit argument that isn't fundamentally retarded, or ignorant, or both.
Like Turkish Visas...
Turkish EU entry...
Immigration...
Junker not being democratically elected...

Ha, i´m with you on this one.

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You do talk utter bollocks, you know that? Are you solely talking about New York & Illinois? http://fairreporters.net/health/pric...ttes-by-state/ What's this "be glad you're in the EU" shite? In the UK we pay between roughly £7.50-£9.75 per pack (ranging from 17 to 20) depending on the brand. Equivalent to $10.65-$13.84 nationwide. Disclaimer: not that this has anything to do with the EU, it's just an example of Slant talking bollocks.

The part about be glad you´re in the EU is about that the EU looks out for your health even if you´re not. Somehow that seems to be a bad thing o_O, because they´re telling you how to live healthier and longer... uhm ok, bad Eu, bad!

About how much a pack costs, in austria your standard (20 pc) pack costs between 3.50€ and 4.80€, so you can´t blame that on the EU either. What´s your point?

[Deleted]

Scratch beneath the surface of people wanting out of the EU, and it's all about their dislike of foreign nationals.

[Deleted]

Sorry, I was expecting a precise answer to my question. You see, we know what will happen in the future, it's not just speculative. Actually while we're on the subject I'd like to know what our rate of inflation will be in 2020.

i laid out the argument for why it wont really change -

[DarkAmbient]

i laid out the argument for why it wont really change -

I was after facts, not personal speculation. Can you tell me what the UK's net migration figures will be in post-Brexit 2019? Yes or no.

[Slant]

So let's not cherry pick, let's look at all of them where 8/10 of the most recent are for leave. https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-polling/

A week to save the UK Vote Leave!

Is that the argument? Okay. I say vote for remain, because if you don't an asteroid will drop onto the UK. It's just as likely, so yeah... logic!

[dribbles]

Is that the argument? Okay. I say vote for remain, because if you don't an asteroid will drop onto the UK. It's just as likely, so yeah... logic!

Understandable bearing in mind Merkel obviously learnt nothing from German attempts at eugenics last century and absolutely criminal to attempt it again in the 21st C. I am sure 1000's of women in Cologne would agree with me.

[Cien]

Scratch beneath the surface of people wanting out of the EU, and it's all about their dislike of foreign nationals.

i love holidaying all over the world, and interacting with 'foreigners' in their own country, i learned spanish in school so i always try to use it and the locals love it, i find all the different cultures and histories of the world fascinating and its interesting learning from someone about their home. but no, i do not dislike foreign nationals, and wud ya beleaf at, its definitely not going to sway my vote to leave either

[Whiskeyjack WN]

And without EU labour protection laws, you'd better buckle up, because it's going to be a ride you haven't seen since Thatcher...

Actually that's really just more scaremongering. The truth is the UK goes over and above most of the EU laws in regards to worker's rights. In fact it probably provides the best working conditions in the EU.. probably.
There are indeed 1 or 2 laws that the UK follows the EU guidelines directly, but for most of them they far exceed the requirements. Why would they go from exceeding the minimum to suddenly being far worse than it.. that's political suicide and no government would be so short sighted?

Here is a link comparing the UK laws to what the EU demands.
https://www.crunch.co.uk/blog/small-...ithout-europe/

[Noradin]

Oh, so you do know what will happen in the future? If you could tell me the UK's net migration figures for 2019 post-Brexit that'd be great.

See, you really are using the old "if you cannot use it to make to tell the future to an arbitrarily choosen level of detail then obviously it is impossible to make any predictions at all!" Didn't you read: There are forum rules against discussing religion here.

[Bakis]

Jo Cox just been stabbed or shot outside her village library by a man who according to witnesses yelling 'Britain First!'
She is in serious condition atm, manhunt underway.