Season 6

[Coldkil]

Paragon exp is another problem as you highlighted, it way too much favors 4 person groups because of the exp gains. If you solo or play with just 1 or 2 friends you are way behind what a 4 person group is doing. I think greater rift keys also need to go the way of trial keys and disappear. I should play a normal rift because I want to, not because I have to do them to get 1 or 2 greater rift keys. Seasonal play got really good in season 2-4 and then has stagnated in seasons 5 and 6 with very small changes thus the same few builds being broken.

Uhm, imho there are some details worth delving into.
- paragon XP difference between solo and party doesn't actually matter a lot. Yes, you need paragon for leaderboards but since who plays in party gets more exp and can run also solo, there is no way to counter it. Either block "party characters" from solo leaderboard or the opposite, make people choice at season start if they want a "true solo char" with dedicated leaderbards. That would solve most of the issues.

- related to point above; there won't EVER be way for casual to compete against hardcore farmers. You either play uber-efficient from time 0 forever or you're left behind. There is no point in discussing this.

- again, what's broken is the synergies and not builds themselves; single class wise, it's been dealt with. Party wise, support is what breaks things.

- normal rifts are useless at this points. As you said, you need them for keys as both xp and drops are more consistent in GRs (plus the advantage of much more difficulty granularity making every minutie of your time potentially worth more).

- again on paragon: the point is not farming forever. It's what everyone wants. The point is WHY farming forever. Having something mandatory for a small part of the playerbase while the majority simply has no use in that and the feature becomes pretty much passive bonuses you get for doing other stuff isn't what i would call a good design.

[Tradu]

Its obviously just a first revision. In its new state it is actually worse than DMO and Vyrs for everything. It would(if still worded the same) have to be a 9k% dot as the infinite burn and be buffed to 3k% for 6pc to even be viable. Since you have to drop 2 more skills for fire skills which made me laugh so hard that they thought that was something you can even do.

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No matter how it ends up we will have 1 dps 3 supports. It shouldn't be twister obviously we have had it for 2 seasons. It will never be more than 1 dps. They really don't give a shit how 4 player ends up because blizzard can't figure anything out and people purposely don't put the really good shit on the PTR boards so its not known until its already season and then they can't change anything mid season.

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Ya twister needs to die for S7 thats for sure. As for 1 dps and 3 supports thats not gonna change. At the most it MAY someday happen to line up where there is 2 super good dps specs and 2 dps 2 support can be a thing, but anymore and its gonna be awful. Paragon will be even worse of a factor because now you need both dps to be high as possible.

Paragon is the problem in the game not a single dps and supports. Paragon needs to die / be capped / give 1 main stat not 5.

I still fucking farm 2k+ paragon every season but it is actual cancer and needs something to happen to it soon or D3 is gonna keep going downhill and have less and less people playing as it is already apparent how many less are playing each season.

Yeah, of course, but it'd be nice to at least have options for the DPS slot(like you sort of do for support right now, at least to some extent). 2 seasons of "wizard is the only DPS"(same build, even, although this season Firebird Archon was sort of okayish as well) is a bit much.

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I'm waiting for abetter Firebird iteration, though i must say i like the idea of actually having to use 3 fire skills in the build. Still needs work though.

As for the meta: unfortunately it won't change. When you reach a level high enough the additional survivability and damage buffs provided by support characters greatly overrides the damage of any dps. Support builds need to die - end of story - they need to take out all the bonuses around because it's the main reason of running a support. Buffs should be personal only and characters should be balanced on that.

Paragon is another issue for sure. They need a rework not in terms of being a long term infinite progression, but because it feels useless to grind over and over GRs for +5 main stat. Also given the fact you don't even need 800 (until Blizz puts a conquest) to finish a season journey, you can see how Paragons turn out to be: a mandatory boring and dull grind for ladders, and useless for everyone else.

Supports existing is fine imo. I get that not everybody enjoys playing it(in fact... very few people do, apparently) and that too many slots are taken up by supports(because the synergetic buffs are just too strong), but it should definitely exist. Also, regardless of what they do, somebody is going to end up being the "support" who creates density/provides CC/heals even if they do it in a "DPS" build.

[Coldkil]

Supports existing is fine imo. I get that not everybody enjoys playing it(in fact... very few people do, apparently) and that too many slots are taken up by supports(because the synergetic buffs are just too strong), but it should definitely exist. Also, regardless of what they do, somebody is going to end up being the "support" who creates density/provides CC/heals even if they do it in a "DPS" build.

I can cope with that - the problem is about damage buffs which count more than a DPS build. Basically, going with a support should be a tradeoff between utility and raw damage. At this moment, 3 support are needed for defense/survivavbilty but they also provide damage buffs that cover for the 3 dps character missing, if not more.

Some proposals:
- remove damage buffs altogheter, baking them into the skills so the single characters retains its damage but doesn't buff others.
- make different damage buffs simply not stacking; this would also require some normalization between classes so we won't end with "the 2 classes that have highest %dmg increase"
- diminishing returns for stacking support skills/buffs between each other

and so on. Nothing will stop people to find the new meta even with everything changed, as it is now with character builds. Players will just pidgeonhole themselves into the same thigs because "they're better".

EDIT: some more context to my pov. I started again PoE after playing it in 2013 and leaving it as it was a complete mess due to bad graphic optimization, utter chaos itemization and sync issues. Now it's definitely better (and also i learned more).
Point is, i feel it complementary to D3. I love ARPG and hack'n'slash, and i feel the combo is optimal. D3 is clearly superior gameplay wise, while PoE wins hands down in terms of replayability value and character customization.
I will play every singel season and do every single journey because i find it SO MUCH FUN. Problem is that even playing slowly it takes 3 weeks top to do everything. And then PoE comes, where i won't be able to do anything remotely competitive aswell de to time constraint but there will always be something to hunt for due to both the necessary time commitment and the amount of options available.

It's not like i did everything in D3 (have to do set dungeons, never pushed super high GR, still some achies left) or i don't like it. Just it's something i know will take "just that time" and then i won't ever get to it again (but i'm going to do everything). Rolling a new char is fun for season purposes, but you "end" it very fast. So during the downtime between seasons i'm playing PoE because, simply put, i doubt i'll ever be finished with it, due to the sheer amount of stuff you can try in it.

Ladders are unforgiving and either you play top or don't compete at all. Though having 3 characters grouping stuff up while another does all the damage makes a lot of different characters "not viable", in the sense that only the top dps class/build has room for high GR levels.

If anything, the game needs more stuff to do. Pushing GR is fun and all (for only some people though), but there needs to be soemthing else to strive for, in a non-competitive and even not infinite scaling way.

And again, we return to the same question: WHY? Currently item hunt is next to nothing, and getting that +5mainstat has a very limited purpose. It's not a dedication problem, it's a purpose of things problem.

[Djuntas]

A thread like this, on a dead part of a sub-forum just confirms it...25 pages jesus

nobody plays non-season sigh. I spame ALL public channels like a 12 year old rager....(okay not that bad) and get no whisper, and in public TX10 there are 50 people online on prime-time....when I join say normal rift you see constant same group if you leave...mostly ppl with like paragon300....

/sigh. dont wanna haft to play ladder....ever

[Kelimbror]

It's unfortunate, but that's really where the core of the fanbase is. I rarely even finish out a season, but sure enough I will be back at the beginning of every one like I never left.

[Demoncrash]

PTR 2.4.2a

Torment 11-13

Firebird's Finery:
4 pieces - [Dealing Fire damage with one of your skills causes the enemy to take 1000% weapon damage as Fire per second for 3 seconds. This effect can be repeated a second and third time by different skills. If an enemy is burning due to three different skills simultaneously the enemy will Ignite, dealing 3000% weapon damage per second until they die.]
6 pieces - [Your damage is increased by 100% for each nearby enemy that is Ignited up to a maximum bonus of [1*2000]%. You always receive the maximum bonus whenever a nearby Elite monster is Ignited.]

Armor of Akkhan 6 pieces
Now deals 600% increased damage (up from 450%) and now take 15% less damage

Raiment of a Thousand Storms 6 pieces
Increases damage by 1250% (up from 300%)


ItemPassive_Unique_Gem_009_x1 Each hit done increases healing received by {c_magic}[{VALUE1}*100|12|]%. for 5 seconds. Stacks up to 10 times.
ItemPassive_Unique_Gem_013U_x1 Hits with primary abilities heal you for [{VALUE1}*100]% of your maximum health.
ItemPassive_Unique_Gem_009U_x1 You are immune from control impairing effects.

More stuff to come.

[Coldkil]

A thread like this, on a dead part of a sub-forum just confirms it...25 pages jesus

nobody plays non-season sigh. I spame ALL public channels like a 12 year old rager....(okay not that bad) and get no whisper, and in public TX10 there are 50 people online on prime-time....when I join say normal rift you see constant same group if you leave...mostly ppl with like paragon300....

/sigh. dont wanna haft to play ladder....ever

Point is that apart GR pushing/ladders, there's actually not much to do after one finishes season journey (and that can take like 12 hours for a super optimized team). Also as most people play casually, they have zero chance in competing on ladders. That kills pretty much all the game longevity.

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FUCK YEAH SPIKE TRAPS REWORK

• Custom Engineering Increase the duration of your Caltrops, Marked for Death, Spike Trap, and Sentry by 100%. / Increase the maximum number and charges of Sentries to 2 and number of Spike Traps to 4.
  
• Spike Trap Cost: 10 Hatred / Lay a trap that remains dormant until another Hatred spender is used to detonate the trap. When detonated, the trap and all other traps will explode in a chain reaction for 950% weapon damage as Physical to all enemies within 8 yards of each trap. / You can have a maximum of 4 Spike Traps active at one time.
• Impaling Spines: Increases arming time to 3 seconds but increases damage to 1220% weapon damage as Physical. When deployed, enemies within range are instantly immobilized for 3 seconds.
• Echoing Blast : Increase to 1330% weapon damage as Cold. On detonation, the blast slows any targets hit for 3 seconds.
• Custom Trigger : Increase to 1150% weapon damage as Fire. Hatred generators will now detonate traps.
• Scatter : Simultaneously lay 2 traps.
• Lightning Rod : When triggered lightning chain hits nearby enemies within 10 yards. Lightning will also arc between all traps within 25 yards. All enemies are hit for 1380% weapon damage as Lightning over 3 hits.

Anyway:
P42_Unique_Ring_003 - [PH] "Lo, on the forth day the great one said, 'Let there be Crusader buffs.' and there were."

P42_ItemPassive_Unique_Ring_001 - Harness the power of fresh OC internet memes to greatly increase your damage.

[Djuntas]

It's unfortunate, but that's really where the core of the fanbase is. I rarely even finish out a season, but sure enough I will be back at the beginning of every one like I never left.

I just think ladder should be abolished. Ruins non-ladder, but yea - I won't play ladder ever so obvious BIAS.

Honestly...log on EU non-ladder right now and see for yourself how dead it is on level 70 TX10....dont even see 1 non-ladder player LFM when Im in the biggest commmunity channels.

[Kelimbror]

Ladder has been the primary play mode going back to D2, which has been running for over a decade. I understand if you don't like something, it's rough to watch that take over your game. I'm in the opposite boat, I wanted to switch to console only for D3 to save some wrist strain and they said they will never have seasons on console so I'm forced to play it on PC and basically feel my console copy is worthless.

Do you have a console? It's really well done if you just want non seasonal.

[Thelxi]

What they should do is give solo play more meaning. There is this wall that you hit eventually every season where playing solo is just not meaningful anymore, and committing to group grinding is not something everyone is willing to do in this game.

[Coldkil]

What they should do is give solo play more meaning. There is this wall that you hit eventually every season where playing solo is just not meaningful anymore, and committing to group grinding is not something everyone is willing to do in this game.

I'm actually fine with current solo/party status. As i said, they should just need to add a "create char as self-found/solo/whatever name" that simply disables grouping and puts you on separate ladders for people wanting to compete this way, making it a more fair environment. No more Para/Gem padding due to higher group runs and so on.

I'd like to have something to do long term which is not related to ladders, so i am interested in playing the game even after the season journey is done - or even non season since ladders are out of the equation.

EDIT: official patch notes

[Gadzooks]

I'm actually fine with current solo/party status. As i said, they should just need to add a "create char as self-found/solo/whatever name" that simply disables grouping and puts you on separate ladders for people wanting to compete this way, making it a more fair environment. No more Para/Gem padding due to higher group runs and so on.

I'd like to have something to do long term which is not related to ladders, so i am interested in playing the game even after the season journey is done - or even non season since ladders are out of the equation.

EDIT: official patch notes

Some nice and needed changes in the next patch. But honestly, what the game needs is an expansion, with a new act or two (I know it'll only be one...sigh...), maye some new classes, and some new systems, like runes.

Here's to hoping one is announced at Blizzcon.

[Kontinuum]

Here's to hoping one is announced at Blizzcon.

Or Gamescom.

[Coldkil]

Some nice and needed changes in the next patch. But honestly, what the game needs is an expansion, with a new act or two (I know it'll only be one...sigh...), maye some new classes, and some new systems, like runes.

Here's to hoping one is announced at Blizzcon.

Coping @Kontinuum above - RoS was announced at Gamescom, and later Blizzcon was full of Diablo all over. Which i hope will be again.

I'd prefer only one new Act; anyway focus on two more classes instead of one, and ways to make story replayable to give it more light. Example: some kind of "currency" farming available only in story mode (also rewarded by quests at max level) to be able to summon powerful bosses with their own cosmetic loot, and every time you beat it you get a more powerful version (dunno, just random idea).

In any case, yes be it a full expansion or a cycle of major patches (which to me are equivalent apart the way of receiving the content), that's what the game really needs now.

Oh, and Paragon revamp. No more +5mainstat please.

[Kelimbror]

Oh, and Paragon revamp. No more +5mainstat please.

They need a prestige system now and borrowing PoE's hideout with decorating and whatever would be cool. I'd also like to see more cosmetic effects like PoE.

[Deleted]

Very disappointed in how they are changing firebirds.

I too am disappointed, because it also takes away the nice Firebird/Tal Rasha combo. However, if it works so that effects like Magic Weapon - Ignite, or even Lava Walkers/Maximus counts towards the burn, allowing builds using Disintegrate/Arcane Torrent + Meteor/Twister with Etched sigil to work, then I'm okay. If, on the other hand, you have to manually cast 3 different fire skills to stack the burn, then what's the point? Why not just play an already decent set that requires you use 4 different skills.

I really wish they would just fix how it currently is, or give some more information as to why it's not working, because all my attempts to make it work for me failed. I have a great little build that uses Wand of Woh + Envious blade (in cube) to run around using explosive blast only to hit mobs. 520% with 100% extra EB damage on weapon + shoulders and almost 500% crit damage should guarantee that my first hit on mobs applies the burn. For whatever reason it is not

[Coldkil]

They need a prestige system now and borrowing PoE's hideout with decorating and whatever would be cool. I'd also like to see more cosmetic effects like PoE.

Would like to know more details about the prestige system you had in mind. Hideouts...uhm they look cool on paper, but in PoE they're justified with the masters benches to craft items, while in D3 crafting is next to useless.

[Kelimbror]

Would like to know more details about the prestige system you had in mind. Hideouts...uhm they look cool on paper, but in PoE they're justified with the masters benches to craft items, while in D3 crafting is next to useless.

Prestige systems are ways to reset your level and obtain a high reward for your efforts. It can be made purely cosmetic or have some permanent power boost, just depends on how they want to do it. I think cosmetic is fine enough, but I agree that the stats could be made more 'interesting' than flat increases on things.

An example would be that you hit max paragon, where all stats are maxed, and then you prestige....it would reset your paragon to '0', add a special indicator to your player icon...like a star or skull on the outside of whatever frame you have activated, and provide you with X rewards. Whatever they decide. Then you can repeat the process, obtaining more and more rewards.

They could combine this with the type of cosmetic effects PoE has to make prestige reward you unique spell effects, like your footsteps leave behind ice/fire trails, glowy laser eyes, whatever.

And regarding the hideout, I just meant having a cool little space to teleport to where your crafters are and your stash is. This way you can just use a special teleport to go right to your hideout that you decorate instead of going to one of the act hubs. It doesn't need to be anything different functionality wise from the act hubs, just customizable so you feel like it is *yours*, you know?

I mean the game doesn't need any of this, but it would be fun to have. I like customization and cosmetic choices.

[corebit]

Prestige systems are ways to reset your level and obtain a high reward for your efforts. It can be made purely cosmetic or have some permanent power boost, just depends on how they want to do it. I think cosmetic is fine enough, but I agree that the stats could be made more 'interesting' than flat increases on things.

An example would be that you hit max paragon, where all stats are maxed, and then you prestige....it would reset your paragon to '0', add a special indicator to your player icon...like a star or skull on the outside of whatever frame you have activated, and provide you with X rewards. Whatever they decide. Then you can repeat the process, obtaining more and more rewards.

They could combine this with the type of cosmetic effects PoE has to make prestige reward you unique spell effects, like your footsteps leave behind ice/fire trails, glowy laser eyes, whatever.

And regarding the hideout, I just meant having a cool little space to teleport to where your crafters are and your stash is. This way you can just use a special teleport to go right to your hideout that you decorate instead of going to one of the act hubs. It doesn't need to be anything different functionality wise from the act hubs, just customizable so you feel like it is *yours*, you know?

I mean the game doesn't need any of this, but it would be fun to have. I like customization and cosmetic choices.

WoW Legion is also starting to experiment with Prestige with their new PVP system.

Anyways the current Paragon system needs to go ASAP. The disparity between players is starting to get out of hand, and new/casual players are being left out of groups just because they don't have thousands of paragon points.

[Coldkil]

Ok, now the context is clear.

Not really a fan of the hideout in general, but it's not really a problem or bad. Wouldn't be my focus but will be a nice addition anyway.

As for prestige: i don't know how it would work with ladders and GRs. Currently Paragon is a direct character power increase and getting to 800 is fast enough to balance the classes around having it capped. The additional levels are a flat dmg% increase.
If it was only cosmetic, this means that resetting will directly nerf your character damage by quite a lot, and you will end not being able to run content you previously farmed, and i don't think many people would like that - i can see people going for ladders simply ignoring the entire prestige system.

So (in my opinion) it can only end with a power reward which is comparable with the 800 paragon levels (maybe not in terms of raw power, but at least time). Maybe every time you prestige you get a fixed number of points to spend on a "prestige tree" which is big enough to take quite some time (if not an eternity) to complete, and can be extended.

I mean a PoE like passive tree where you start from different places and choose your road.

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Anyways the current Paragon system needs to go ASAP. The disparity between players is starting to get out of hand, and new/casual players are being left out of groups just because they don't have thousands of paragon points.

This has really nothing to do with the paragon problems, as it's basically a simple and direct time = power equation. You don't play 24/7 100% optimized setup? Then you won't be able to compete. And it's not because of Paragon system, but because of people willing to do so.

You want to "win"? You need to do more. Always remeber RUSSBarb and GERBarb.