LFR: Success or Failure?

[Deadite]

At the end of the day, the LFR crowd only cares about character power. It doesn't matter from what source it comes, as long as its not from PvP and as long as they can one button click queue and get loot. Loot Loot Loot is all that matters to them in the end.

Stupidest thing i have read in a while. If that was the case then no bugger would run LFR. They would go to Tanaan where you can get better gear for even less effort.

[gr4v3r]

You act like it doesn't matter to you either. Except it's less about the loot you get and you seem overly focused and filled with impotent rage over the fact that other people get loot. Gamers enjoy story and ways to advance their character. Often times both. I've raided seriously and casually and if I didn't want to do LFR I didn't do it. Simple. Other times I wanted that 4 piece real bad and I'd rather LFR for my piece then wait for it to drop/be looted to me on the actual team.


Honestly all this pissing moaning and whining about the loot is just silly. The real thing it ever did to subvert fun was killing the same boss in 3 different modes a week did more damage than LFR level loot did for raiding fun. Heroic/mythic bosses where no mechanics change it's just more HP/more damage. That's what you all should be complaining about is making sure the higher level contents mechanics are sufficiently engaging and different from the lower modes.

How are you progressing your character in lfr? You can complete an entire raid in an hour and hit 1 button if you were so inclined. How is that progress? Should WoW offer a system where every month you are subbed they mail you a piece of gear, you know just to keep up with progression? If you want story thats one thing but if you want to develop your character in an MMO then you should do something worthy of progression.

[shimerra]

How are you progressing your character in lfr? You can complete an entire raid in an hour and hit 1 button if you were so inclined. How is that progress? Should WoW offer a system where every month you are subbed they mail you a piece of gear, you know just to keep up with progression? If you want story thats one thing but if you want to develop your character in an MMO then you should do something worthy of progression.

You get gear from LFR, you progress your character. I can't believe you're that stupid to not be able to understand that simple fact given your raging against LFR. The ease of progress is irrelevant to the fact that by getting better gear you are progressing your character's strength.


Now go throw your fit in the corner until you come up with an actual response. Until LFR gear starts beating in power heroic/mythic rewards who gives a shit. And having seen the difference between mythic DPS and LFR dps in the past you shouldn't be much worried about blowing this little LFR people out of the water. Until Wow decides to stop jamming hugely important expansion arch story lines into raids the devs putting decent gear rewards isn't the end of the world.

[Jaylock]

But the argument is they want story. If they want power they can do mythic dungeons which are short and offer some difficulty worthy of some powerful items. If they arent happy with that they can step up to normal raiding which is still almost a joke. There is just no need for 4 tiers of loot.

Let me clarify what I mean. The LFR crowd wants Loot Loot Loot, but they mask their real intent by saying they want to see the story. By saying they want a way to participate in the content without socializing or putting in minimal effort. The only effort they are willing to do to "see the story" and get Loot Loot Loot, is one button clicking into a queue. Thats it.

[Glorious Leader]

The LFR crowd would cry and whine about something like this, even though it sounds very logical and a good idea.

At the end of the day, the LFR crowd only cares about character power. It doesn't matter from what source it comes, as long as its not from PvP and as long as they can one button click queue and get loot. Loot Loot Loot is all that matters to them in the end.

This was proven false by the inability of the garrison to retain subscribers. No what casuals want is to feel their time invested actually progressed their characters into some form of growth that wasn't dwarfed by whatever raid tier loot existed. In fact that progression should include tier loot even if its acquired slower.

[Jaylock]

You act like it doesn't matter to you either. Except it's less about the loot you get and you seem overly focused and filled with impotent rage over the fact that other people get loot. Gamers enjoy story and ways to advance their character. Often times both. I've raided seriously and casually and if I didn't want to do LFR I didn't do it. Simple. Other times I wanted that 4 piece real bad and I'd rather LFR for my piece then wait for it to drop/be looted to me on the actual team.


Honestly all this pissing moaning and whining about the loot is just silly. The real thing it ever did to subvert fun was killing the same boss in 3 different modes a week did more damage than LFR level loot did for raiding fun. Heroic/mythic bosses where no mechanics change it's just more HP/more damage. That's what you all should be complaining about is making sure the higher level contents mechanics are sufficiently engaging and different from the lower modes.

It doesn't. Loot is a result of putting in effort into downing mythic raid bosses. Its secondary to the main goal: down mythic raid bosses. If I could raid naked and still down mythic raid bosses I would. The feeling of accomplishment of doing something challenging is what I raid for. Not gear. But all it seems all these LFR players are after is LOOT masked by the justification that they "want to see the story" which we all know is complete BS.

- - - Updated - - -

Stupidest thing i have read in a while. If that was the case then no bugger would run LFR. They would go to Tanaan where you can get better gear for even less effort.

Case in point. lol you just proved me right. It doesn't matter from what source the loot comes from, all the LFR crowd wants is loot, not to "see the story"..

[Glorious Leader]

If I could raid naked and still down mythic raid bosses I would.

Mythic would be much better off, in fact it's probably the mode of raiding that would lose the least amount of participation if loot was removed. Having said that stop kidding yourself, loot is the incentive and people would stop raiding at every level if you removed it.

[Deadite]

Case in point. lol you just proved me right. It doesn't matter from what source the loot comes from, all the LFR crowd wants is loot, not to "see the story"..

Proved you right? There would be no LFR crowd if they only want loot. They get better loot elsewhere with less effort.

[shimerra]

It doesn't. Loot is a result of putting in effort into downing mythic raid bosses. Its secondary to the main goal: down mythic raid bosses. If I could raid naked and still down mythic raid bosses I would. The feeling of accomplishment of doing something challenging is what I raid for. Not gear. But all it seems all these LFR players are after is LOOT masked by the justification that they "want to see the story" which we all know is complete BS.

If it truly was then you wouldn't give a shit about the loot other players received. You'd have your hard bosses and be happy. And I'd bet money you take the loot out of heroic/mythic raiding and interest would tank. For you too. Because gear progression and character development have always been core parts of playing an RPG. The fight itself might keep you interested for a week or three, but it's loot that keeps you farming it for 6+ months.

If the Devs put in a wing of say 3 bosses that were hard but dropped zero loot I'll tell you exactly what would happen. 90% of people wouldn't give a shit and wouldn't bother with the boss at all. 5% would try it once or twice and never again, the other 5% would beat it but wouldn't bother trying to do it until after they'd farmed the shit out of all the loot dropping bosses.

Loot is a result of effort. Less effort is put in so less powerful gear is rewarded. You just don't like how low the bar has been set because it's below your "these people don't deserve gear" bar and despite your lies to yourself loot does matter to you. The fact that you tie loot to effort means loot, in particular how it's obtained, does matter to you personally. The worst lies are the ones we tell ourselves.

Case in point. lol you just proved me right. It doesn't matter from what source the loot comes from, all the LFR crowd wants is loot, not to "see the story"..

The same exact point could be put against mythic/heroic raiding. It's not about the story or the challenge it's about the loot! Because I know for a fact raid participation which already isn't crazy high would drop without loot. And as someone else said if it was entirely about loot there's an even easier way to get it then waiting for an hour in a DPS que and hoping your not in a horrible group. Questing/Reps.

[Deleted]

How are you progressing your character in lfr? You can complete an entire raid in an hour and hit 1 button if you were so inclined. How is that progress? Should WoW offer a system where every month you are subbed they mail you a piece of gear, you know just to keep up with progression? If you want story thats one thing but if you want to develop your character in an MMO then you should do something worthy of progression.

Will you stop that bullshit? What progression does LFR offer right now? You can get 20ilvl higher gear by just doing your dailies in Tanaan.
LFR is and always have been catch-up mechanic. It only provides meaningful gear progression until the first major content patch, where they introduce a new quest zone, which universally offers better gear than what you can get from LFR.
F*****g hell.
LFR is trash experience for sure. But it serves a purpose of speeding-up gearing of alts, especially with the legendary item quest chain.
Imagine you want to make an alt and join latest raid tier clearing with your guild. Now they need you to have a legendary and also some semi-decent gear. Now imagine there is no LFR, so you have to grind the legendary through normal raiding. How much time will that going to take you? And how much time will the same thing requires with LFR available.

Now, as a side effect, LFR also happened to attract non-raiders. Players who would otherwise get bored and quit. LFR does provides them with that small piece of incentive to keep playing for few more weeks, just to see what happens in the end. What is wrong with that?

[Tadkins]

LFR, to me, is not about loot. Doubly so in this tier because you get far better in Ashran/Tanaan anyway.

LFR is about not having to relive the days of EQ, Vanilla WoW, and BC, being locked out of the cool content because I didn't sufficiently kiss up to the "big dogs" that ruled the server. That is why I support it.

[Jerichofr]

LFR, to me, is not about loot. Doubly so in this tier because you get far better in Ashran/Tanaan anyway.

LFR is about not having to relive the days of EQ, Vanilla WoW, and BC, being locked out of the cool content because I didn't sufficiently kiss up to the "big dogs" that ruled the server. That is why I support it.

Another great point. Love it, and I agree with it 100%. As someone who played during those times and saw it happen first hand.

[Jtbrig7390]

Newsflash, you're wrong. Plain and simple.

In order for someone to be wrong you got to be right and ur not.

Why would anyone want to group with someone like you anyway.

[Sansnom]

The LFR crowd would cry and whine about something like this, even though it sounds very logical and a good idea.

At the end of the day, the LFR crowd only cares about character power. It doesn't matter from what source it comes, as long as its not from PvP and as long as they can one button click queue and get loot. Loot Loot Loot is all that matters to them in the end.

Strange comment coming from you. So what do other raiders care about? Why are raiders in LFR? I am pretty sure it is not for fun and giggles.

Tell me then, what were all those other posts from the anti-LFR people, including you, suggesting further degrading of the loot from LFR? Or that LFR do not serve epic gear, or raiders complaining about epic gear from non-raid contents.

Sounds like raiders care about loot too. The difference is not only do they care about their loot, they also care about other people's loot.

So yes, LFR crowd only cares about character power. Raiders such as yourself cares about other players power too.

[Thimagryn]

Let me clarify what I mean. The LFR crowd wants Loot Loot Loot, but they mask their real intent by saying they want to see the story. By saying they want a way to participate in the content without socializing or putting in minimal effort. The only effort they are willing to do to "see the story" and get Loot Loot Loot, is one button clicking into a queue. Thats it.

Ashran gave me better loot than all of LFR. I still did LFR to see the fights and the raid. I even queued multiple times just to get a handle on some of the mechanics. I DE'd all the gear I got though, even a few warforged pieces that were still lower ilvl than conquest gear.

[gr4v3r]

Will you stop that bullshit? What progression does LFR offer right now? You can get 20ilvl higher gear by just doing your dailies in Tanaan.
LFR is and always have been catch-up mechanic. It only provides meaningful gear progression until the first major content patch, where they introduce a new quest zone, which universally offers better gear than what you can get from LFR.
F*****g hell.
LFR is trash experience for sure. But it serves a purpose of speeding-up gearing of alts, especially with the legendary item quest chain.
Imagine you want to make an alt and join latest raid tier clearing with your guild. Now they need you to have a legendary and also some semi-decent gear. Now imagine there is no LFR, so you have to grind the legendary through normal raiding. How much time will that going to take you? And how much time will the same thing requires with LFR available.

Now, as a side effect, LFR also happened to attract non-raiders. Players who would otherwise get bored and quit. LFR does provides them with that small piece of incentive to keep playing for few more weeks, just to see what happens in the end. What is wrong with that?

But that is where I see the problem. LFR gives people an excuse to not do actual content and devalues the game. I will 100% admit that I did LFR for weeks on end and hated it so much because it was the fastest way to get the legendary fragments needed so I can get back to raiding. I guess I could have just not done it and forced myself top find heroic pugs every week but that has become a challenge because LFR is now the "correct" way to catch up. Was the same with garrisons. I thought they were mindless and boring but if I skipped it I would be left with less gold and a worse ilvl than those who did it. No one forced me to do these things but because others had access to it, it would be foolish for me not to.

[Chaelexi]

To the OP, It is both a success and failure at the same time. As it is a success to get a larger portion of the population to experience raid content while still keeping a challenging mode still available to the elite level raiders. It is a failure because they have made an instance that half the raid can AFK through and be carried by a few people actually trying. As for the loot, I have no issues with LFR giving tier but I want Blizzard to make more of a difference between the LFR/Normal tier loots in appearance to the Heroic and especially mythic level bosses. The loot from these difficulties should have the animations, the further layer of adornments and more noticable color schemes. The LFR and normal versions should b e dull colors and lack the extras so when another player sees you in a major city they can bring back that wow factor that sets like T6 lock had.

[Deleted]

But that is where I see the problem. LFR gives people an excuse to not do actual content and devalues the game.

And here i will go ahead and say that not a single would-be raider gave away normal progression because they already completed LFR. It just doesn't add-up.
If you want to raid, you raid. If you don't want to, you may force yourself through LFR and be done with it. Either case, not a single raider is lost.

I will 100% admit that I did LFR for weeks on end and hated it so much because it was the fastest way to get the legendary fragments needed so I can get back to raiding. I guess I could have just not done it and forced myself top find heroic pugs every week but that has become a challenge because LFR is now the "correct" way to catch up. Was the same with garrisons. I thought they were mindless and boring but if I skipped it I would be left with less gold and a worse ilvl than those who did it. No one forced me to do these things but because others had access to it, it would be foolish for me not to.

If LFR did not exist, gearing alts would become busy work. I can't get myself even thinking about gearing an alt if i have to go through all the try-fail encounters over and over, after i already completed all of it with my main. That's months of playing. All of it while my guildmates have fun running the latest raid tier.

[Jtbrig7390]

That's the fatal flaw in all these anti-casual posters arguments ... It's not that I don't want to be social, I don't want to be forced to be social with people like THEM just to play the damn game.

I'm as social as it gets in-game, chatting it up with anyone that wants to talk a bit. FFS, I met my wife ingame because we were in the same guild and we all talked all the time. I want to be social with people I CHOOSE to be social with, not that Blizzard engineered me to be forced to depend on.

And so I only do content that I can queue for, because my guilds are dead (thanks, WoD) and I refuse to have to deal with the fucking assclowns that infest Group Finder.

Couldn't agree more.

Like I have said many times, forced socializing isn't social.

[Tadkins]

That's the fatal flaw in all these anti-casual posters arguments ... It's not that I don't want to be social, I don't want to be forced to be social with people like THEM just to play the damn game.

I'm as social as it gets in-game, chatting it up with anyone that wants to talk a bit. FFS, I met my wife ingame because we were in the same guild and we all talked all the time. I want to be social with people I CHOOSE to be social with, not that Blizzard engineered me to be forced to depend on.

And so I only do content that I can queue for, because my guilds are dead (thanks, WoD) and I refuse to have to deal with the fucking assclowns that infest Group Finder.

People like that are just angry that we don't have to kiss up to them to participate in content anymore.