Anyone concerned with the removal of glyphs?

[provaporous]

Glyphs serve a role as an additional 3 talent points for the last few expansions(less so for WoD, they have been gunning for removing it) that could alter our rotations and improve/lessen QoL in return for more/less efficiency, and now they are removing the system and replacing it presumably with the choices the artifacts give, except (correct me if im wrong), you can unlock all the weapon talents if you just get enough artifact power.

The way they have removed glyphs was a slippery slope we let happen, it used to be sets of additional modifiers to abilities we had to purchase to make our characters more proficient in certain areas, then they made them one time purchases, then they removed 3 of the 9 slots(remember medium glyphs?) then they moved all the glyphs to the prime size, and the minor glyphs became cosmetic, last expac some classes pretty much had no prime glyphs that were useful anymore, and now with legion, they are gone.

TL/DR they are essentially removing more things that let us customize our characters, at a time where Blizzard has said they value letting us express ourselves through our characters, I'm worried that Legion will ship with far to few things to distinguish one member of a class from another.

[Rivin]

There was almost no customization in glyphs for like three expansions now. Primes were removed because there was literally no choice; majors have had maybe one you'd swap out occasionally; minors did, however, do their job and are staying.

[Rivin]

I don't like the idea if they are removed completely, I can understand major glyphs being removed to balance things out but they still should have left or replaced them with multiple new (mostly cosmetic and "utility") minor glyphs instead.

Minors are staying and there are some new ones too, although a bunch of current ones got removed (mostly the ones that affected gameplay).

[provaporous]

Minors are staying and there are some new ones too, although a bunch of current ones got removed (mostly the ones that affected gameplay).

where do you see minors are staying? because ive played the beta, and i dont see them.

edit: apearently they are now applied directly to spells, with no UI?

[Rivin]

where do you see minors are staying? because ive played the beta, and i dont see them.

edit: apearently they are now applied directly to spells, with no UI?

Yeah. There's no UI anymore, and also no limit to how many can be applied, except you can only use one per spell.

[Archibalde]

At this point, I personally really don't care about major glyphs. A few expansions ago I would have been sad to see them go, but they made them so increasingly trivial every expansion that the majority no longer have much of an impact on gameplay. Besides, most of the "interesting" ones have been baked in the abilities so they're not entirely going away.

The only one that I'll miss is Glyph of Hand of Sacrifice. And even that one won't matter much, you'll be healing yourself constantly anyway to off-set the damage you take from Light of the Martyr, so you'll barely notice the additional damage intake while the Hand is active.

[Al Gorefiend]

Major glyphs? What are those? I play a shadow priest and I haven't swapped my major glyphs since I reached level 100 almost 2 years ago. Let them disappear forever, it wasn't fun gameplay.

Minor glyphs I love and I dream of the day each class has 100+ minor glyphs.

[Netherspark]

Glyphs had become another layer of faux customization - there weren't really any true choices in them, you just picked the 3 best ones and rarely, if ever changed them.

Although I do wish they had replaced glyphs with something else.

[MoanaLisa]

I only wondered why it took them this long once they put in the new talent system. Your customization is there.

Players that have played for any length of time at higher levels have long understood that there is very little in the way of customization within a class, especially with glyphs. If you want to raid with others, you buy into whatever meta is fashionable at the time.

[Adrim]

There was almost no customization in glyphs for like three expansions now. Primes were removed because there was literally no choice; majors have had maybe one you'd swap out occasionally; minors did, however, do their job and are staying.

This is completely false. Maybe certain specs had no customization because some website "blessed" a particular configuration of only 3 as best DPS, but I assure you there were plenty of times I have swapped out glyphs even fight by fight.

Dispersion has about three different variations, to make it last longer or give you a movement boost or shorter cooldown. There were fights where each of these were more or less desirable than the others. Likewise, double Dispel was vital on certain fights where everyone had debuffs, and fairly useless on fights without. It's worth pointing out that if there WEREN'T plenty of valid options, they would never have felt the need to make certain glyphs mutually exclusive with each other.

So please, stop acting like you know what you are talking about. Even Blood DKs, which had probably the worst set of Prime glyph options would alternate between different AMS or grip talents depending on the fight mechanics.

[Rivin]

This is completely false. Maybe certain specs had no customization because some website "blessed" a particular configuration of only 3 as best DPS, but I assure you there were plenty of times I have swapped out glyphs even fight by fight.

Dispersion has about three different variations, to make it last longer or give you a movement boost or shorter cooldown. There were fights where each of these were more or less desirable than the others. Likewise, double Dispel was vital on certain fights where everyone had debuffs, and fairly useless on fights without. It's worth pointing out that if there WEREN'T plenty of valid options, they would never have felt the need to make certain glyphs mutually exclusive with each other.

So please, stop acting like you know what you are talking about. Even Blood DKs, which had probably the worst set of Prime glyph options would alternate between different AMS or grip talents depending on the fight mechanics.

So what you're saying is "Shadow priests actually had a few interesting choices, making them an anomaly".

And I did say that majors had a couple that would be swapped out sometimes.

[Radaney]

Glyphs were never balanced in some classes, with some having glyphs way more performance favourable than other classes.

I'm glad they took the cosmetic route now which is no longer restricted by a 6 slot UI as it allows for way more fun glyphs.

Also Glyphs aren't totally removed and now offer more cosmetic customization options.

[Aceveda]

Major glyphs being gone is good riddance imo, there really wasn't choice anyway.

I feel like glyphs will finally be what they always should've been in Legion, cosmetic changes.. and now you can use 1 for each spell, I think that's great.

[Adrim]

So what you're saying is "Shadow priests actually had a few interesting choices, making them an anomaly".

And I did say that majors had a couple that would be swapped out sometimes.

No, what I'm saying is that your blanket statement "There was almost no customization in glyphs for like three expansions now" is totally inaccurate. There was so much customization that it became necessary to make glyphs mutually-exclusive to try and present them as interesting choices and to address the rather major group of players demanding a fourth glyph slot. The Prime/Major/Minor system was fully 9 glyphs so what kind of idiot would claim that as "almost no customization"?

And on, Shadow Priests were not the only class with interesting choices. I mean, have you even played a Druid, ever? They have about 40 glyphs. Even better, because many abilities can be used by multiple specs just by changing form, there was even more choice. I think only the pure DPS classes like Mage and Hunter had real struggles, but since those were two of the biggest PvP classes they still had to choose between PvP oriented glyphs (DoT removal etc) and straight DPS increases.

So please, ditch the hyperbole. The game is worse now for removal of glyphs, if for no other reason than the Developers broke their promise to bake most of them into core abilities. And even in cases where they did bake a glyph behavior into an ability, it's usually the least favorite or would have been better as a PvP talent instead.

I will, however, say I'm glad I no longer have to wait until level 75 to be able to Penance while moving. I certainly did not like the idiotic choices of where they gated certain glyphs in the last three expansions.

[Tankitbetter]

Adrim, my Blood DK never changed glyphs. My Resto Shaman only changed glyphs back when Water Shield was gamey. My Ele shaman only changed CL glyph on 3-target fights.

It wasn't significant. It was annoying. Good riddance.

[bledgor]

No big loss, don't think I changed my locks at any point during the expansion

[Adrim]

Adrim, my Blood DK never changed glyphs. My Resto Shaman only changed glyphs back when Water Shield was gamey. My Ele shaman only changed CL glyph on 3-target fights.

It wasn't significant. It was annoying. Good riddance.

Then you were bad, period. There were so many fights that you could cheese out of mechanics with a 20s AMS cooldown. And so many fights where you could get infinite taunts using Death Grip. And so many fights where it was important to snare ads at range so people could AoE them and other fights were you had to move them quickly to join the boss or other pile.

So are we supposed to go "yeah let's remove glyphs" because so many people obviously never bothered to look at fights and figure out ways they could be used effectively? That's fine, now we can play it with a 6-button console controllers because everything more complicated has been pruned.

Do I think the glyph interface sucked? Yes. Do I think level gating sucked? Yes. But do I hate the fact that instead of being able to blink in any direction or blink twice or blink further, all of that is removed because some idiot got too confused by glyphs? Yes.

[Rivin]

No, what I'm saying is that your blanket statement "There was almost no customization in glyphs for like three expansions now" is totally inaccurate. There was so much customization that it became necessary to make glyphs mutually-exclusive to try and present them as interesting choices and to address the rather major group of players demanding a fourth glyph slot. The Prime/Major/Minor system was fully 9 glyphs so what kind of idiot would claim that as "almost no customization"?

There were nine slots but three were predetermined (there were very few prime glyphs and they were almost all flat performance boosts so there was no choice beyond what gave the best boost).

And on, Shadow Priests were not the only class with interesting choices. I mean, have you even played a Druid, ever? They have about 40 glyphs. Even better, because many abilities can be used by multiple specs just by changing form, there was even more choice. I think only the pure DPS classes like Mage and Hunter had real struggles, but since those were two of the biggest PvP classes they still had to choose between PvP oriented glyphs (DoT removal etc) and straight DPS increases.

I've been playing a druid since BC. I've only changed glyphs a few times in the past two expansions. Also, druids have 49 glyphs total (both major and minor) on live, and many are spec-locked or exclusive so each spec doesn't have even close to 40 choices total, and most of the minors are...well, minor.

[Moxal]

I don't really care, but if anything am a little annoyed that I will have to re-buy them for the umpteenth time.

[Jademist]

I have not switched my major glyphs since reaching 100 at the beginning of WoD. Minor glyphs are fun. The major ones? Meh. They did not give us meaningful choices. And even when they were first introduced they were more cookie cutter things I needed to do to add to the cookie cutter list of things just to play optimally. Good riddance.

Now with that though I don't know how inscription is going to be other than making Vantus runes.