Anyone concerned with the removal of glyphs?

[Rivin]

So are we supposed to go "yeah let's remove glyphs" because so many people obviously never bothered to look at fights and figure out ways they could be used effectively? That's fine, now we can play it with a 6-button console controllers because everything more complicated has been pruned.

Do I think the glyph interface sucked? Yes. Do I think level gating sucked? Yes. But do I hate the fact that instead of being able to blink in any direction or blink twice or blink further, all of that is removed because some idiot got too confused by glyphs? Yes.

I don't like that they're removing glyphs. There definitely is some cool effects that are being lost from this change that I'd rather keep. But acting like glyphs were this big customization option is ignorant. There was very little customization involved.

[Jademist]

Then you were bad, period. There were so many fights that you could cheese out of mechanics with a 20s AMS cooldown. And so many fights where you could get infinite taunts using Death Grip. And so many fights where it was important to snare ads at range so people could AoE them and other fights were you had to move them quickly to join the boss or other pile.

So are we supposed to go "yeah let's remove glyphs" because so many people obviously never bothered to look at fights and figure out ways they could be used effectively? That's fine, now we can play it with a 6-button console controllers because everything more complicated has been pruned.

Do I think the glyph interface sucked? Yes. Do I think level gating sucked? Yes. But do I hate the fact that instead of being able to blink in any direction or blink twice or blink further, all of that is removed because some idiot got too confused by glyphs? Yes.

Uh... I checked which glyphs were more optimal for certain raid bosses but really, there wasn't much of a change at all. Zero. Null.
Do I think they could've improved glyphs? Certainly. But to insist they made massive and meaningful choices for all specs is nonsense.

[Nakotsu]

Glyphs serve a role as an additional 3 talent points for the last few expansions(less so for WoD, they have been gunning for removing it) that could alter our rotations and improve/lessen QoL in return for more/less efficiency, and now they are removing the system and replacing it presumably with the choices the artifacts give, except (correct me if im wrong), you can unlock all the weapon talents if you just get enough artifact power.

The way they have removed glyphs was a slippery slope we let happen, it used to be sets of additional modifiers to abilities we had to purchase to make our characters more proficient in certain areas, then they made them one time purchases, then they removed 3 of the 9 slots(remember medium glyphs?) then they moved all the glyphs to the prime size, and the minor glyphs became cosmetic, last expac some classes pretty much had no prime glyphs that were useful anymore, and now with legion, they are gone.

TL/DR they are essentially removing more things that let us customize our characters, at a time where Blizzard has said they value letting us express ourselves through our characters, I'm worried that Legion will ship with far to few things to distinguish one member of a class from another.

they didnt do nothing. half the ones equiped for blood dks didn't even function right. (like the one that was suppose to reset death grip when something was immune.)

[callipygoustp]

Less is more. Blizzard knows what you want better than you do. Stop bitching.

[Adrim]

There were nine slots but three were predetermined (there were very few prime glyphs and they were almost all flat performance boosts so there was no choice beyond what gave the best boost).

No, they weren't. All you apparently did was login once a week and run a dungeon but the rest of us maybe branched out a bit more. Before the idea to create a PvP talent tree, glyph WERE the PvP talent tree. You took one set of talents if what you cared about was overall DPS over eight minutes on a boss. You took many different talents when you wanted less overall damage but more burst.

I've been playing a druid since BC. I've only changed glyphs a few times in the past two expansions. Also, druids have 49 glyphs total (both major and minor) on live, and many are spec-locked or exclusive so each spec doesn't have even close to 40 choices total, and most of the minors are...well, minor.

Then like the other guy, you're bad, do you want a cookie?

I mean, for fuck's sake, why are we indulging people who are so adamant about how bad they play? Why don't you guys brag that you never changed talents either. I mean none of them prevent you from doing your job badly? So what if the healers have to work harder or the entire raid struggles with a mechanic that one talent/glyph would let me trivialize? It's soooooo much wooooooork.

Hell, go a step further. Just don't bother choosing talents at all. That's really what I'm hearing from everyone who thinks glyphs had no purpose. Just revel in the simplicity of no choice and know that you never have to worry about trying to approach max performance if it means having to read and research and figure out mechanics. Just stand in the fire and press whatever isn't on cooldown and enjoy your game.

[schwarzkopf]

Yeah - just the one. The complete removal of Mage Momentum glyph is really going to affect my game play significantly.

[Adrim]

they didnt do nothing. half the ones equiped for blood dks didn't even function right. (like the one that was suppose to reset death grip when something was immune.)

I believe it did at one point, I remember it was massively useful on Halfus. But I do remember switching out of it when it either stopped working or no longer worked as a double taunt.

The other Blood DK glyph I remember being vital was the one that changed IBF to mitigate less but have a shorter cooldown. It was basically a "get out of stun" key on like a 1-2m cooldown, and there are always those random PvE fights that have so many CC effects you almost swear Blizzard expects you to wear a Trinket. But of course on a fight with some massive nuke hitting you in the face you wanted the full mitigation instead.

[Rivin]

No, they weren't. All you apparently did was login once a week and run a dungeon but the rest of us maybe branched out a bit more. Before the idea to create a PvP talent tree, glyph WERE the PvP talent tree. You took one set of talents if what you cared about was overall DPS over eight minutes on a boss. You took many different talents when you wanted less overall damage but more burst.

Again, each spec had maybe five prime glyphs, and across all ten classes maybe two did anything interesting. They were almost all flat performance boosts. There was no choice except to choose to be worse at your role. Are you thinking of majors? They had a bit more of that, but I don't really think changing them for PvP counts. You still had a specific few that were always used with a couple being switched out sometimes.

Then like the other guy, you're bad, do you want a cookie?

I mean, for fuck's sake, why are we indulging people who are so adamant about how bad they play? Why don't you guys brag that you never changed talents either. I mean none of them prevent you from doing your job badly? So what if the healers have to work harder or the entire raid struggles with a mechanic that one talent/glyph would let me trivialize? It's soooooo much wooooooork.

Then why don't you give specific examples? You seem so versed on druids, knowing that they had 40 total glyphs--why don't you tell me which of those glyphs were actually useful for each spec and which were changed out often?

[Adrim]

Again, each spec had maybe five prime glyphs, and across all ten classes maybe two did anything interesting. They were almost all flat performance boosts. There was no choice except to choose to be worse at your role. Are you thinking of majors? They had a bit more of that, but I don't really think changing them for PvP counts. You still had a specific few that were always used with a couple being switched out sometimes.

See it's hilarious because you keep walking back your statement more and more. Can't you just be man enough to admit your oversimplified hyperbole was wrong? "There was almost no customization in glyphs for like three expansions now" has now become "you had a specific few that were always used with a couple being switched out sometimes" -- when did I ever say differently?

Did I ever claim that there was vast variation in every glyph slot? No. I even gave an example with Priests. On a dispel-heavy fight , Glyph of Dispel is mandatory but that doesn't mean I need to also change Glyph of Penance or Weakened Soul. If I was on a no-movement fight, Glyph of Penance would be a waste of mana so that might be the one I swap out instead. And oh god what I wouldn't give to have had Glyph of Silence work for Disc on Iskar.

So yes, I agree, you were at most changing one glyph on a fight by fight basis... but that's still customization. And it was very useful when you could do things like Dark Simucrum a key ability the developers forgot to flag. That make it worth switching to that glyph on that fight but that glyph was dead useless anytime else in raiding.

Then why don't you give specific examples? You seem so versed on druids, knowing that they had 40 total glyphs--why don't you tell me which of those glyphs were actually useful for each spec and which were changed out often?

I'm not versed in druids but I am reminding you that three expansions ago, there was no spec gating on glyphs. If you had the spell, you could glyph it. They had to add spec restrictions because of how overpowered this was. But even after that, a Blood DK could take two or even all three AntiMagicShell talents and just have a god mode ability. Be immune to a boss debuff, full runic bar, and take no damage? The Dream. So the devs went in and made glyphs mutually exclusive, again, only because of how overpowered it was.

You don't have to nerf things that are trivial and don't matter and nobody ever changes and serve no purpose. Do I think glyphs as they stand today are just a faint ghost of the power they once had? Absolutely. But they still give people a very good variety of playstyles. Some boomkins wants to leap forward to engage, some boomkins wanted to leap backwards to kite. Glyphs allowed them to pick depending on their own playstyle. Now it's... ONLY moving forward AND changing to a cat or ONLY moving to an Ally position (useless when soloing). Oh and by the by, to pick either of those two options you have to give up a 30% heal.

The guy who said that glyphs were essentially our bottom 3 talent slots is absolutely correct. It would be one thing if all the existing Prime/Major/whatever glyphs were baked into various talents so we could still get them. Having them removed is essentially taking three things we used to have and giving us nothing in return.

[Mad_Murdock]

I think Warrior or at least Fury has some decent options. Sometimes Rude interruption was better, sometimes Bull rush, For some of the Proving grounds you could get some mileage out of Heroic leap glyph, executor was nice for leveling and even Proving grounds. Gag order sometimes handy.

I guess if we just say "mythic raiders didn't need them" then I think it's a shame they get to determine what the rest of us find handy or fun. I know. I know, "get good" and I won't need handy glyphs to help me out

[Cooper]

This reminds me, did the Glyph of Slow get baked into Arcane Blast? You know, where Arcane Blast would automatically apply Slow? Because playing Arcane without that glyph friggin' sucked.

[Spotnick]

Blizzard is slowly, with every xpac, removing the items that let you knew if somebody knew what they were doing in this game or not.

Not so lon g ago, you could check if somebody had the proper talents, meta gem, enchants, professions bonuses, glyphs, racial bonuses and had reforged gear properly before inviting that person to a group.

Let's say the "noob checks" have been pruned a lot.

[DemoBytom]

I haven't switch a single glyph this expansion..

But honestly we don't need glyphs + talents + artifact talent tree, which all serve, pretty much the same role, and are just shown on different windows..
Better make more interesting talents and scrap glyphs, than try to spread it over 2 systems, IMHO.

I only wish we got more interesting minor glyphs. Some classes neither got anything good, newin Legion, nor had really cool stuff to begin with..

[SoulSoBreezy]

I'd like to see paladins have more than five glyphs total =(.

[Tankitbetter]

Then you were bad, period. There were so many fights that you could cheese out of mechanics with a 20s AMS cooldown. And so many fights where you could get infinite taunts using Death Grip. And so many fights where it was important to snare ads at range so people could AoE them and other fights were you had to move them quickly to join the boss or other pile.

Always had 20s CD AMS.
Didn't need infinite taunt on literally any fight. Two taunts was enough.
"So many fights to snare adds at range" lol okay. Yes, so many fights. lol.

[Raiju]

There was almost no customization in glyphs for like three expansions now. Primes were removed because there was literally no choice; majors have had maybe one you'd swap out occasionally; minors did, however, do their job and are staying.

Completely false for some classes - it was pretty normal to switch between bosses, between CM's, etc.

[Dominus89]

Only major glyphs are going, cosmetic glyphs (minor) are staying.
http://legion.wowhead.com/items=16?f...66;crs=7;crv=0

[Sevro au Barca]

At this point I wish they would have revamped the Glyph system to something more akin to Diablo. Make multiple essential abilities of each specialization customizable with 3 variants of each spell. Sure it could end up being binary and as difficult to make all options competitive as talents, but it's the function most Major Glyphs served.

[dlhak]

No, no problem at all, we played without them before.