No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Deleted]

Take the part of the game you like the most and then think about how you'd feel if Blizzard told you it wasn't going to be in the game until half the expansion was already done and over with. Then tell me you wouldn't care, and I'll call you a bald-faced liar.

Couldn't even tell you what's the thing I like most about the game lol...I just take the game and play it... If I dont like the content (like MoP rly hated alot more than WoD to be honest >_>)i simply dont play...

[Queen of Hamsters]

And that's exactly why they can and WILL do what's best for them and their profits, and not necessarily for the players or the game.

Keeping players happy and playing, IS in their best interest... Hence why Legion is the polar opposite of WoD so far. Hell, I'd say Legion has more on offer than even MoP did in its release state. And I consider MoP to have been their best expansion.

[MoanaLisa]

A single dev has expressed his OPINION on when flight should be in the game. A part of the game which is still under development and subject to change.

Flying will be unlocked roughly in the middle of Legion.

It doesn't read like an opinion and it comes from the Assistant Game Director which is something more than a developer.

It's not that when more clarity was provided I didn't expect the usual half dozen of you to pick up your goalposts and move them to somewhere else. That was completely expected. It's also not my job to keep people from appearing to be foolish (obviously). But let's be fair here: Watcher is not just a dev any longer and that remark from the Q&A seems to be a fairly solid thing; something more than an opinion at any rate. This comes at a time where they have been very careful not to make firm statements about much of anything without having them locked down. You can continue to ignore the current process and inform all of your opinions from Warlords but the closer we get to the reality of the expansion, the more foolish and pointless that appears to be. Whatever Legion is, it doesn't read at all in the beta like Warlords.

Nonetheless, you keep up the faith. Just be cautious about being like one of those scraggly street preachers that constantly tell us the end is near and who no one pays any attention to. My impression is that you're smarter than that but have lost all perspective on what's really going on with this expansion.

[SirCowdog]

Flying will be unlocked roughly in the middle of Legion.

It doesn't read like an opinion and it comes from the Assistant Game Director which is something more than a developer.

It's not that when more clarity was provided I didn't expect the usual half dozen of you to pick up your goalposts and move them to somewhere else. That was completely expected. It's also not my job to keep people from appearing to be foolish (obviously). But let's be fair here: Watcher is not just a dev any longer and that remark from the Q&A seems to be a fairly solid thing; something more than an opinion at any rate. This comes at a time where they have been very careful not to make firm statements about much of anything without having them locked down. You can continue to ignore the current process and inform all of your opinions from Warlords but the closer we get to the reality of the expansion, the more foolish and pointless that appears to be. Whatever Legion is, it doesn't read at all in the beta like Warlords.

Nonetheless, you keep up the faith. Just be cautious about being like one of those scraggly street preachers that constantly tell us the end is near and who no one pays any attention to. My impression is that you're smarter than that but have lost all perspective on what's really going on with this expansion.

I know I probably sound like the biggest, saltiest hater on the internet right now. But I'm just trying to keep things in perspective. A single vague sentence from a dev, ANY dev, isn't exactly conclusive proof. Like I said:

If they actually live up to their word and get flying in the game within a reasonable amount of time: GREAT! AWESOME! But assuming that they will is just stupid, given the circumstances.

It's a step in the right direction. But lets not fool ourselves into thinking the race is already over.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Flying will be unlocked roughly in the middle of Legion.

*snip*
Nonetheless, you keep up the faith. Just be cautious about being like one of those scraggly street preachers that constantly tell us the end is near and who no one pays any attention to. My impression is that you're smarter than that but have lost all perspective on what's really going on with this expansion.

Preach! This bull-headed need some have for clinging to the negativity surrounding Blizzard is getting tiresome.

- "Class order halls have a command table?? OMFG Garrison 2.0 Legion will be just like WoD!!!". Despite everyone playing and experiencing COH's reporting differently.

- "They've scrapped Thal'Dranath?? OMFG Farahlon all over again Legion is just like WoD!!!". Despite the fact that they didn't scrap content, they changed their mind on the theme of said content. It's still coming.

- "They've said they're going with the flying model that WoD ended up receiving but haven't given an exact date just that it will be in sooner during the expansion cycle than Draenor's Pathfinder?? It's WOD all over again they've lied to us!!". Completely ignoring the fact that the developers have, so far for Legion, taken great care with their announcements.

[SirCowdog]

Preach! This bull-headed need some have for clinging to the negativity surrounding Blizzard is getting tiresome.

- "Class order halls have a command table?? OMFG Garrison 2.0 Legion will be just like WoD!!!". Despite everyone playing and experiencing COH's reporting differently.

- "They've scrapped Thal'Dranath?? OMFG Farahlon all over again Legion is just like WoD!!!". Despite the fact that they didn't scrap content, they changed their mind on the theme of said content. It's still coming.

- "They've said they're going with the flying model that WoD ended up receiving but haven't given an exact date just that it will be in sooner during the expansion cycle than Draenor's Pathfinder?? It's WOD all over again they've lied to us!!". Completely ignoring the fact that the developers have, so far for Legion, taken great care with their announcements.

Just as I've been cautioned to take care with going over the deep end of skepticism, you should also take care to not dismiss too lightly, or go too crazy with over exaggerating legitimate concerns.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Just as I've been cautioned to take care with going over the deep end of skepticism, you should also take care to not dismiss too lightly, or go too crazy with over exaggerating legitimate concerns.

No exaggerating going on, I'm quoting from threads I've seen with my own eyes where people said those exact things and wouldn't listen to players with EXPERIENCE from Alpha/Beta. I even went in to check for myself on more than one occasion if there was any validity to the claims being made.

[MoanaLisa]

All I'm really saying here is that ignoring what we can see of the future right now if you have a beta key or access to any of the information or streams from it to indulge in the idea that the past is absolutely going to dictate how the future plays out is fairly pointless given the evidence. There is a ton of information available about what's around the corner which is being largely ignored so that people can wallow in either their dislike for the entire game or their disappointment with Warlords.

I was disappointed with Warlords myself and I'm on my first extended vacation from the game since I joined up in BC. I have observed what has been rolled out so far in the beta and the care that Blizzard developers are attempting to take before committing themselves to some piece of the game they don't have well in hand. My initial conclusion is that Legion has been better thought out and seems to be better planned. The development team is well aware of the stakes, of what went wrong and today's Q&A was, even for Blizzard, a fairly remarkable display of self-awareness of the failings of the latest expansion and their development team. All of that bodes well for Legion.

As for flying: There is a world of difference in understanding the requirements for starting the achievement before the expansion launches and what was tossed at us in Warlords. I don't mind playing the game to do that and am not blind to the idea that MMO's specifically are mostly about repeating game tropes over and over to get a sense of progression. SirCowdog is not wrong to dislike that but he is certainly wrong to think that his opinions are shared by everyone else or that Blizzard is doing something in their MMO that is wildly different from what other MMO's do. Flying is no longer a perk, it's become a full-blown reward, probably because of the uproar about it in Warlords. "Well, if they want it that much, maybe we have undervalued it all these years" is a perfectly logical but perhaps unwelcome response to the previous round of angst about this.

They have been remarkably consistent about the existence of Pathfinder from the start. It was not so long ago that the usual suspects here were theorizing that it wouldn't be in Legion at all and that flying would be out again and for good this time. Then it was going to be in the final patch. And then something else, blah, blah, blah with only the imagination of the poster limiting what devious thing Blizzard had in mind for them. I would wish that to stop because it's so counter-factual at this point and, if anything, this thread is even more pointless than the last one (which is saying something).

Those are my thoughts about it as of today.

[Cwimge]

Halfway is still not good enough. But I'm sure the 6 months not spent playing this year long pile of fanservice will only make me that much more immersed..

[kamuimac]

a year without flying will be a year without many subs for blizzard .

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He said it live in the developer stream. You will have to wait until they make it replayable. But he did in fact say that very thing.

Slight paraphrasing:

"When will flying be enabled in Legion? Early on, the middle or at the end (i.e. after last content patch)?"

"Somewhere near the middle. Not the last content patch... there will be more patches after flying is made available."

b3cause us trusting devs in WoD worked so well - lets do the same for legion for no reason whatsoever besides blind faith face it they are just again cuting corners and probably didnt even bother adding 3rd axis for launch .

[shimerra]

b3cause us trusting devs in WoD worked so well - lets do the same for legion for no reason whatsoever besides blind faith face it they are just again cuting corners and probably didnt even bother adding 3rd axis for launch .

Actually I'm trusting the 4 people I personally know in beta and the 1st had experience and testing of people playing classes I'm interested in.


Your blind hate is just as stupid as the blind optimism you see everywhere.

[Vynestra]

I'm happy that Blizzard has given some indication that flight will be enabled before the end of Legion. Once they provide a concrete date I'll know when I can buy it.

So you'll buy it, to then have to spend months of grinding achievements and reps to get the flying way after that date, because let's face it, it's unlikely they're going to announce a date til close to release of flying...

Seems like a dumb idea, but your choice.

[wing5wong]

Why do you think every open world game released in the past 5 years has fast travel. Honestly look at it, Fallout 4, Far Cry, both those open worlds are arguably more dynamic and engaging then what WoW offers post level cap, but yet once you visit a zone you can fast travel back to it at your leisure. Taking it a step further GTAV, and Just Cause 3 games where travel is dynamic engaging and in GTA case actually in the name of the game .. offer fast travel. Why do you think that is?

I think those games are slightly different in terms of fast travel, but again, they dont offer direct transport routes, you still trudge around on foot.
I also dont oppose improvements in terms of large travel distances - top to bottom of kalimdor for example

Here is the thing if the tedium and annoyance exceeds the fun or reward to be had people won't do it. You can increase the reward, but then people will just do what is needed. This is going to be what happens in Legion people will do the necessary open world content then the lack of flight will drive them back to their garris .. class halls, and the capital city.

A month after launch all I did in WoD was:
1. Log in check garrison on two toons
2. Do the daily pet battle in the garrison
3. Raid
4. Level another toon.

Now currently w/flight enabled.
1. Log in check garrison on 11 toons
2. Level another toon (not really anymore as I have every class at max level)
3. Complete garrison campaign on alts
4. Complete garrison quests (harrison jones etc) on alts
5. Do the daily pet battle in the garrison
6. Battle and collect wild pets (don't do this anymore as I have them all)
7. Do the daily pet battles
8. Gathering honestly one of my favorite things to do to unwind was throw on some Netflix or Itunes and gather for a hour or so.
9. Finish up quest chains on alts that were missed while leveling.
10. Collect/Kill Treasures/rares missed while leveling
11. Archeology

Now I know what you anti flight people are going to say "you could do all that w/out flight" you are correct I could have but I didn't want to. The tedium and annoyance exceeded the reward or fun to be had, having flight fixes that.

Pet battles, archaeology etc, IMO are improved by flight because of issues within the profession/content itself.
Why do you need to be able to fly to collect fragments for example?
The profession revamp hits on this for the primary/gathering professions by making it more interesting and requiring less travel for the same resulkt, as well as adding additional content.
Archaeology and to a lesser extent,pet battles, could do with touch ups from these systems as well

Flight shouldnt be required for these pieces of content to be enjoyable. Flight is a stopgap measure that does make them enjoyable to some.

WoW has flight paths the absolute worst mass travel system that belongs in 2004 along w/the SWG shuttle system. WoW flight paths encourage you to do anything but stay in game... take a dump, alt tab, afk etc etc.

I agree for long distance flights, yet i do the same with flying (coffee bio etc). Press go, hope i dont come back dead from fatigue
There are definitely improvements that can happen here

I have determined those that are anti flight fall into a few categories.
1. Old school MMO players who are in the mindset you should suffer, grind and work for the right to have fun.
2. Those that instanced content is the majority of their game. They will do what is needed in the open world but after that it may as well be a lobby game (many of my friends fall into this). They are unable to understand how instanced content isn't the bulk of the game for many of us.
3. WPVP folks, that refuse to accept that WPVP isn't a thing. Majority of players are on PVE servers, with the rest on servers so horribly balanced they may as well be PVE servers. Only 3-4 actual PVP servers exist .. I would be willing to bet that pet battles see more willing participation then WPVP
4. Those that believe sans flight Blizz will deliver more dynamic engaging content at a faster pace. WoD proves this wrong.
5. Trolls.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Sadly, yes
4. I dont think people expect it faster, more that they can focus on that content. WoD and Legion are very different in this regard.
5. Some people troll yes, but just because their opinions are different, does not make a troll.

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But assuming that they will is just stupid, given the circumstances.

Assuming they will not is just as foolish.
You are literally hoping they will fail with that mindset, how are you going to enjoy something you want to go so badly.

- - - Updated - - -

It's a step in the right direction. But lets not fool ourselves into thinking the race is already over.

Yup, best to keep an open mind here

[Fabinas]

They will not back down on flight this time. The mass uproar with the WoD flying fiasko leading to mass unsubs (and GM's contacting you personally to affirmate that reason) has shown them the way they should go. Moana is right. We had vague stuff about flying in WoD, we have the first part of an achievement coded in game in Legion. The only thing to question is whether they will actually allow flight mid expansion or last content patch. They COULD back down on that, claiming various reasons etc. But they will not remove flight again. They might restrict it in certain areas, like they did in Isle of Thunder, but flight is here to stay.

[Bun-Bun]

They have been remarkably consistent about the existence of Pathfinder from the start. It was not so long ago that the usual suspects here were theorizing that it wouldn't be in Legion at all and that flying would be out again and for good this time. Then it was going to be in the final patch. And then something else, blah, blah, blah with only the imagination of the poster limiting what devious thing Blizzard had in mind for them. I would wish that to stop because it's so counter-factual at this point and, if anything, this thread is even more pointless than the last one (which is saying something).

Those are my thoughts about it as of today.

And yet while being remarkably consistent about the existence of pathfinder they are being extremely open ended about the specifics; exactly like they were before WoD was released.

I have zero faith in them to do what is right.

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They will not back down on flight this time. The mass uproar with the WoD flying fiasko leading to mass unsubs (and GM's contacting you personally to affirmate that reason) has shown them the way they should go. Moana is right. We had vague stuff about flying in WoD, we have the first part of an achievement coded in game in Legion. The only thing to question is whether they will actually allow flight mid expansion or last content patch. They COULD back down on that, claiming various reasons etc. But they will not remove flight again. They might restrict it in certain areas, like they did in Isle of Thunder, but flight is here to stay.

I disagree. The fact pathfinder is in the game proves nothing. Blizzard so for has yet to show me anything that shows they learned from their mistakes.

We will probably end up with useless flight again just like WoD stands right now.

[Kyriani]

So you'll buy it, to then have to spend months of grinding achievements and reps to get the flying way after that date, because let's face it, it's unlikely they're going to announce a date til close to release of flying...

Seems like a dumb idea, but your choice.

Why would it be a dumb idea? I'm not "missing out on anything" What difference does it make if I do the content at launch or at the flight patch? I would do the content either way so there's really no downside. In fact there's quite a few upsides.

First and foremost I avoid making the stupid mistake of financially supporting design decisions I disagree with. If I pre-order now, that's the same as me telling Blizzard they will get my money flight or no. So why should they care about my dislike of how they are trying to hold flight hostage if they get my money anyway? No. As a consumer, my only voice is my wallet, and I owe it to myself to make sure my voice is "heard".

I might also end up getting Legion cheaper than buying it now. Mid xpac the price may go down and the longer it takes Blizz to release flight, the lower that price will be. At the very least I can feel comfortable knowing I'm actually getting my money's worth vs. what happened with WoD.

There's also the fact that by the time I buy and start playing, artifact leveling speed will be much faster (After Legion launches, it will become faster and faster each week to earn Artifact Knowledge. It applies to all characters, so alts and returning players will be able to catch up.), and I'll have extra content from the content patches that were added between launch and the flight patch.

So all in all, I'm not missing out on anything. I'm not so obsessive that I have to be there at the start. And I'm certainly not going to deny myself the opportunity to speak with my wallet in the hopes of making change happen. If enough people wait to buy till flight is enabled it may encourage Blizzard to bring flight to Legion that much sooner. And the longer they wait, the cheaper Legion will be when I buy it. So tell me, what exactly is dumb about waiting? It's not like the content will get "used up" and there won't be any left for me when I get there. Will you have your flying faster than me? Of course! Does that affect me in any way at all? NOPE! I'm not in a race with anyone. I don't have to be first. The content Legion offers will be just as enjoyable when I get there as it is at launch... and I'll likely be able to catch up with the masses fairly quickly at that point. So again, what am I really missing out on?

[Wingspan]

They have been remarkably consistent about the existence of Pathfinder from the start. It was not so long ago that the usual suspects here were theorizing that it wouldn't be in Legion at all and that flying would be out again and for good this time. Then it was going to be in the final patch. And then something else, blah, blah, blah with only the imagination of the poster limiting what devious thing Blizzard had in mind for them. I would wish that to stop because it's so counter-factual at this point and, if anything, this thread is even more pointless than the last one (which is saying something).

The new quotes are a moderate affirmation at best. I mean come on, the "patches" that follow flight could (really easily and somewhat likely) be just about as thrilling as 6.1 (and released during the last six months of a two year stretch). And "middle" of the expansion is vague enough to mean nearly anything. And even if they manage to bring flight at a reasonable time, you can virtually bet it is because they release a new zone with no flight (TI style).

Sadly, I would not have even considered or expected stuff like this a few years ago... but now I figure it's a given.

The mystifying thing about all of this though is that people tend to defend Bliz because they have bought in to the "stuff happens" line of thinking that Bliz has been feeding us for some time. Yet somehow they managed to meet a deadline and deliver flight at launch FOUR times prior to WoD. Is the current team simply that bad?.. because that is what it seems to be suggesting to me.

[Eapoe]

The new quotes are a moderate affirmation at best. I mean come on, the "patches" that follow flight could (really easily and somewhat likely) be just about as thrilling as 6.1 (and released during the last six months of a two year stretch). And "middle" of the expansion is vague enough to mean nearly anything. And even if they manage to bring flight at a reasonable time, you can virtually bet it is because they release a new zone with no flight (TI style).

Sadly, I would not have even considered or expected stuff like this a few years ago... but now I figure it's a given.

The mystifying thing about all of this though is that people tend to defend Bliz because they have bought in to the "stuff happens" line of thinking that Bliz has been feeding us for some time. Yet somehow they managed to meet a deadline and deliver flight at launch FOUR times prior to WoD. Is the current team simply that bad?.. because that is what it seems to be suggesting to me.

You are talking about deadlines, and not design. The new team isn't "bad" in the sense you are talking about because WoD wasn't intended to have flight at the beginning. The same is true for Legion.
As far as defending Blizzard, most people aren't doing it for the "white knight" reasons people like to sling around; but, more accurately, these people realize it's Blizzard's game and they can design it however they want. If a design is deemed poor by a player, and makes the game not fun for them, they will quit, whether indefinitely or just a period of time. As it stands in this thread, people that are defending Blizzard have mostly said that lack of flight hasn't bothered them, is a convenience, skips content, can be deemed a detriment to the game; yet, still most of the posters realize that others enjoy flight, and only a few are saying "waaaah, get over it."

[Elim Garak]

it's Blizzard's game and they can design it however they want.

Err, no, that's not how it works, you don't design a game however you want and then look at subscription numbers dwindling and go "oh, looks like we made a doodoo, better luck next time, let's try this, this and this now and see how it goes" - that would be the end to any business.

[Trollfat]

It will be interesting playing half of the expansion without flight, and the second half with it.

I am fine with this.