Offense/Defense

[xerus]

Everything is pretty much fair game, I have attacked and won games(and potg) playing Torb & Junkrat.

My only issue is "Snipers" if your running 2x Widowmaker, or double WM + Hanzo While attacking a payload then you need to take a long hard look at yourself

Better is when you do have two snipers and there are still turrets / Bastion alive to cause an issue.

[McLovenIt]

yea I mean, the whole "offensive/defensive" heroes never seemed to be a problem for me and my friends.

Maybe that's because I'm lucky to be apart of a large clan and rarely ever play games by myself.

I can understand why an offensive team wouldn't want an "offensive bastion" - but if you have a reinhardt, mercy and/or winston. so someone shielding and someone healing, you can mount Bastion on the payload, or mount Torbjorn's Turret on the payload, and it's a floating gun platform.

But maybe right out the gate, Bastion isn't very effective.

This game does not have offensive/defensive characters per say. I've ran offensive games with zero tanks and we win, we've gone no healers on either side and still won. It just all depends on how your team plays, what your roster looks like, and how bad/good the enemy is.

But in any shooter with various roles like this, you'll always get someone yelling "that character sucks for this!!! change it now!!!" lol

[Cattleya]

I've only seen the complaint when the character's really just less effective on that particular map or when the team stacks too much of one category. I can agree with that sometimes, though even that not always. The situation you described, I wouldn't agree with the complaint, no.

I mean, Pharah's one of the best anti-Reinhardts, who in turn is a popular pick on payload/capture objectives, to throw just one example out there.

[McLovenIt]

I've only seen the complaint when the character's really just less effective on that particular map or when the team stacks too much of one category. I can agree with that sometimes, though even that not always. The situation you described, I wouldn't agree with the complaint, no.

I mean, Pharah's one of the best anti-Reinhardts, who in turn is a popular pick on payload/capture objectives, to throw just one example out there.

yea Pharrah is definitely one hero who can be great with just about any map in any mode. She can knock people off the map, jump over tall buildings and flank enemies, harass snipers, destroy turrets, and disrupt reinhardt. If executed well, ultimate does gnarly damage and makes the enemy run for cover. She's one of my top 3 characters.

[DeadmanWalking]

Pharahs weakness is that her rockets are slow and she doesn't rapid fire them very fast. You can unload a whole 76 rifle and kill a monkey much faster than you can with a rocket launcher, and much cleaner as Pharah has to aim where her opponent is going to be rather than 76 who auto hits his enemy where he is aiming at the moment.

[Phookah]

I feel like people don't understand the different "classes" and what their job is.

Offensive heroes can fight effectively pretty much everywhere.
Defensive heroes are most effective at fighting within their given area.
Tanks excel at providing protection.
Supports excel at (duh) supporting.

BUT
Though heroes may share a class (Reaper and Pharah are both offensive) they can have drastically differing roles. I almost feel like blizzard should put in sub-class headers.
General offensive heroes like S:76 or Pharah, then we have Flankers who's job is to get into the back line (Tracer for general disruption, Reaper for murdering, Genji for making supports life hell), counter flankers (McCree) AoE denial (Pharah, Junkrat) Tank tanks (Reinhardt) Disruption tanks (Winston, Roadhog) and it goes on and on.

[Halyon]

Though thats more guidelines than rules, matey.

But i see there are some of those cases. I really think its better you choose a character youre good with for the desired outcome.
Like Eldonia said, all you need is a plan.

Pretty much, yeah.

[Rivellana]

A good junkrat on attack can be invaluable especially if the other team is full of turrets and things that will go boom.

A good Junkrat is particularly scary...

I was on Gibraltar defense the other day and was on Pharah and the other team was a premade and their Junkrat was just unbelievable. He was blowing the crap out of my team so I started hunting him, and his response was to hunt me. He was one who was fully aware of his ability to toss his concussion mine into the air at my location and detonate it. He hurt me so much. Most Junkrats don't know things like that and just spam grenades.

[Adam Jensen]

I get annoyed by people that complain about Hanzo or Widowmaker on offense. They can be good attackers, picking off defenders from behind the main thrust.

[xerus]

I get annoyed by people that complain about Hanzo or Widowmaker on offense. They can be good attackers, picking off defenders from behind the main thrust.

I only tend to say something if they never appear in the killfeed except as a death or turrets are sitting untouched.

Had a pug group with a widow yesterday. I questioned why the turret that was causing issues hadn't been dealt with. The response was that they kept dying because they kept getting attacked on the ledge they were on.

I just rolled my eyes and gave up on them.

[McLovenIt]

Pharahs weakness is that her rockets are slow and she doesn't rapid fire them very fast. You can unload a whole 76 rifle and kill a monkey much faster than you can with a rocket launcher, and much cleaner as Pharah has to aim where her opponent is going to be rather than 76 who auto hits his enemy where he is aiming at the moment.

yea I really love/hate that auto-aim ultimate lol. Comparing Pharrah to 76 doesnt make a lot of sense to me. Only because they fill 2 different roles in my eyes. Pharrah is an airborne "disrupter", and Soldier 76 is exactly that, an "offensive soldier" he's the footman for the group. Run around, throw out healing rings, launch helix rockets, spray n pray everywhere, and/or try picking off Pharrah when she's airborne.

They're both great characters for their roles though

[Peligrad]

Even pro teams use defense characters on offense and offense characters on defense.

You will very rarely see a professional defense without multiple McCree or Tracer or Soldier 76.

You will very rarely see a professional team who doesn't utilize Widowmaker on attack in at least some situations.

Defense characters typically have some sort of advantage by being in a zone before their enemy and helping them keep the enemy out (traps, turrets, siege-mode ect)

Offense character typically have a kit that does not setup but rather is flexible and able to be optimally effective the instant that an enemy is found and hence they typically have an advantage when two characters stumble into each other.

The best defense has enough offense to keep an enemy off balance and make it difficult for the offense to mount an organized offensive.

The best offense has enough defense where they don't lose a lot of ground if something goes wrong.

[Tziva]

I have literally never heard anyone say that thankfully. Admittedly, there are some heroes that do much better on their particular role (Bastion or Torbjorn tend to not be as useful as other heroes on Offense, for example), but I don't really know what to say about people who think playing offense or defense means picking exclusively those characters. A good team usually has a few of both roles, regardless of the objective or map.

And yeah, as people said, a good Junkrat is pretty much awesome in any situation. I just wish I was a good Junkrat

[DeadmanWalking]

I get annoyed by people that complain about Hanzo or Widowmaker on offense. They can be good attackers, picking off defenders from behind the main thrust.

Yes but the problem comes when you are Rhardt walking into the control point to get roflstomps and then realize that 76, Lucio, widow, Hanzo and mei are all standing back playing the sniping game.

[Zatachi]

Yes but the problem comes when you are Rhardt walking into the control point to get roflstomps and then realize that 76, Lucio, widow, Hanzo and mei are all standing back playing the sniping game.

Oh yes...this so much.
You play Reinhardt, get your shield out, walk (slowly, so nobody can miss you) to the point....and then you notice that everyone either snipes or scatter out to flank the enemy....right before you die cause even Reinhardt has a hard time if the whole enemy team shoot at him.

Its just as bad as people run in front of your shield to shoot...you can shoot through, thats the point of the shield.

[xChurch]

Offensive WMs are a drag when they can't kill the enemy sniper, as are multiple offensive snipers.

[Xar226]

So, lastly i hear a lot people moaning because someone pick an Off-char on a defense map and vice versa.

I've never seen what you're describing. I have seen people criticize certain hero choices given whether you are on offense or defense and they may describe it as "offensive character" and "defensive character," but in my experience they've never actually been referring to those categories in the game. Junkrat and Pharah are both great on both sides of the equation. Actually all offensive characters are very good on both sides. I do believe some defensive characters are bad on offense (Torbjorn for example) but it has nothing to do with the category he's in. He's a "defensive character" because he needs to set up and funnel people through a given point.

[Steelangel]

A good junkrat on attack can be invaluable especially if the other team is full of turrets and things that will go boom.

Especially if that Junkrat uses his concussion grenade right and can leap over walls to drop bombs on Torb or Bastion's head. There are many heroes, in the hands of the right player, who can do some amazing things beyond a single one-word description. I'm the Junkrat behind enemy lines lobbing grenades at Reinhardt and Bastion's collective butts. Good times.

What level of play to you have to be at for people to start whining about character choice? I've never once had anyone complain like that in game.

[Termak]

what's more important is that you have a well rounded team. if your team is missing a tank or heals, don't be that asshole that picks a sniper or flanker.

This is kinda true, but why it has to be "my" job. I dont mind tanking or supporting in some games but not all the time, especially when team is packed with tracers hanzos and widows.

[Sky High]

This is kinda true, but why it has to be "my" job. I dont mind tanking or supporting in some games but not all the time, especially when team is packed with tracers hanzos and widows.

ew, stacking either of those characters. /shudder